Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?
Discussion
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hstewie said:
hstewie said:anonymoususer said:
Yes and I feel ashamed for mentioning Angela Rayner
Anyway
Keir possibly realises there is a very good chance he won't be Prime Minister
When Labour lurches to the left as it did under Mr Corbyn and McDonell it takes a lot of timer to recover itself to be seen as a more centred party.
Mr Starmer is likely a stepping stone to another leader that may become PM
I mostly agree other than four years being a long time in politics but also if I look at Labour right now I can't for the life of me think of any of them who seem vaguely Prime Minister material.Anyway
Keir possibly realises there is a very good chance he won't be Prime Minister
When Labour lurches to the left as it did under Mr Corbyn and McDonell it takes a lot of timer to recover itself to be seen as a more centred party.
Mr Starmer is likely a stepping stone to another leader that may become PM
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:anonymoususer said:
Yes and I feel ashamed for mentioning Angela Rayner
Anyway
Keir possibly realises there is a very good chance he won't be Prime Minister
When Labour lurches to the left as it did under Mr Corbyn and McDonell it takes a lot of timer to recover itself to be seen as a more centred party.
Mr Starmer is likely a stepping stone to another leader that may become PM
I mostly agree other than four years being a long time in politics but also if I look at Labour right now I can't for the life of me think of anyone who seems vaguely Prime Minister material.Anyway
Keir possibly realises there is a very good chance he won't be Prime Minister
When Labour lurches to the left as it did under Mr Corbyn and McDonell it takes a lot of timer to recover itself to be seen as a more centred party.
Mr Starmer is likely a stepping stone to another leader that may become PM
Labour lost a whole bunch of people some leaving - Chuka etc some losing their seats
As you say there isn't anyone that jumps out at you Benn junior ? Liz whatever her surname was etc
Personally, and without a shred of evidence or any particular insight, I reckon Sadiq Khan may fancy his chances next time round. I think he’s ‘doing a Boris’ in holding a high profile position which keeps him in the news and in people’s mind but away from the main party and all the grief as it goes through the necessary changes.
He’s an experienced minister and knows Westminster well and he is definitely ambitious.
He’s an experienced minister and knows Westminster well and he is definitely ambitious.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:anonymoususer said:
Yes and I feel ashamed for mentioning Angela Rayner
Anyway
Keir possibly realises there is a very good chance he won't be Prime Minister
When Labour lurches to the left as it did under Mr Corbyn and McDonell it takes a lot of timer to recover itself to be seen as a more centred party.
Mr Starmer is likely a stepping stone to another leader that may become PM
I mostly agree other than four years being a long time in politics but also if I look at Labour right now I can't for the life of me think of anyone who seems vaguely Prime Minister material.Anyway
Keir possibly realises there is a very good chance he won't be Prime Minister
When Labour lurches to the left as it did under Mr Corbyn and McDonell it takes a lot of timer to recover itself to be seen as a more centred party.
Mr Starmer is likely a stepping stone to another leader that may become PM
catweasle said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:anonymoususer said:
Yes and I feel ashamed for mentioning Angela Rayner
Anyway
Keir possibly realises there is a very good chance he won't be Prime Minister
When Labour lurches to the left as it did under Mr Corbyn and McDonell it takes a lot of timer to recover itself to be seen as a more centred party.
Mr Starmer is likely a stepping stone to another leader that may become PM
I mostly agree other than four years being a long time in politics but also if I look at Labour right now I can't for the life of me think of anyone who seems vaguely Prime Minister material.Anyway
Keir possibly realises there is a very good chance he won't be Prime Minister
When Labour lurches to the left as it did under Mr Corbyn and McDonell it takes a lot of timer to recover itself to be seen as a more centred party.
Mr Starmer is likely a stepping stone to another leader that may become PM
valiant said:
Personally, and without a shred of evidence or any particular insight, I reckon Sadiq Khan may fancy his chances next time round. I think he’s ‘doing a Boris’ in holding a high profile position which keeps him in the news and in people’s mind but away from the main party and all the grief as it goes through the necessary changes.
He’s an experienced minister and knows Westminster well and he is definitely ambitious.
This is a good shout and scarier for it.He’s an experienced minister and knows Westminster well and he is definitely ambitious.
valiant said:
Personally, and without a shred of evidence or any particular insight, I reckon Sadiq Khan may fancy his chances next time round. I think he’s ‘doing a Boris’ in holding a high profile position which keeps him in the news and in people’s mind but away from the main party and all the grief as it goes through the necessary changes.
He’s an experienced minister and knows Westminster well and he is definitely ambitious.
I would hope his dire record on crime would make him unelectable in the UK as a whole. He’s an experienced minister and knows Westminster well and he is definitely ambitious.
Andy 308GTB said:
valiant said:
Personally, and without a shred of evidence or any particular insight, I reckon Sadiq Khan may fancy his chances next time round. I think he’s ‘doing a Boris’ in holding a high profile position which keeps him in the news and in people’s mind but away from the main party and all the grief as it goes through the necessary changes.
He’s an experienced minister and knows Westminster well and he is definitely ambitious.
This is a good shout and scarier for it.He’s an experienced minister and knows Westminster well and he is definitely ambitious.
Other than the profile he’s got from being mayor, is Khan particularly popular with the Labour membership?
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Yes we have a Prime Minister and a cabinet full of them.
Michael Caroll bought a lottery ticket whilst Rayner has worked hard to better herself whatever you might think of her politics.
My point is a simple one which is people are criticising her because she's Labour and little more than that IMO.
Stick her in a blue rosette and make her Home Secretary and people would be falling over themselves to doff their caps and come up with gushing tributes on how well she's done given her start in life.
Same old tribal st and a very strange sort of snobbery.
you didn't need to summarise your own post for us.Michael Caroll bought a lottery ticket whilst Rayner has worked hard to better herself whatever you might think of her politics.
My point is a simple one which is people are criticising her because she's Labour and little more than that IMO.
Stick her in a blue rosette and make her Home Secretary and people would be falling over themselves to doff their caps and come up with gushing tributes on how well she's done given her start in life.
Same old tribal s
t and a very strange sort of snobbery.Vanden Saab said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:anonymoususer said:
Yes and I feel ashamed for mentioning Angela Rayner
Anyway
Keir possibly realises there is a very good chance he won't be Prime Minister
When Labour lurches to the left as it did under Mr Corbyn and McDonell it takes a lot of timer to recover itself to be seen as a more centred party.
Mr Starmer is likely a stepping stone to another leader that may become PM
I mostly agree other than four years being a long time in politics but also if I look at Labour right now I can't for the life of me think of any of them who seem vaguely Prime Minister material.Anyway
Keir possibly realises there is a very good chance he won't be Prime Minister
When Labour lurches to the left as it did under Mr Corbyn and McDonell it takes a lot of timer to recover itself to be seen as a more centred party.
Mr Starmer is likely a stepping stone to another leader that may become PM
El stovey said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:anonymoususer said:
So she's bettered herself then ?
I think that could be viewed as aspirational
Yes it could and it should.I think that could be viewed as aspirational
But something something tribal politics.
It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.
Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
valiant said:
768 said:
Zero GCSEs. Not one.
John Major only had three O levels and he became PM and I think that he’s widely respected by many and not just Tories as being a decent PM. A tertiary education is no proof that you’ll make a decent MP, minister or even PM.Rayner is definitely marmite but she has achieved quite a lot despite her lack of formal education and she certainly isn’t thick. Obviously there are plenty on here that don’t agree with her politics and that’s perfectly normal but to dismiss her because she hasn’t got any grades is just another excuse to justify your particular political stance.
As has been said, she’s been elected to DL and Starmer has no choice in the matter. She is definitely a Corbynite which does make her quite dangerous for Starmer but, scumgate aside, she’s outwardly toed the line but I think internally she’s proving quite the obstacle in Starmer’s attempts to modernise the party. She does need to be sidelined in a similar way that Watson was effectively sidelined by Corbyn but with a 80 seat deficit to contend with, Who needs who the most?
Rayner has done bugger all, latched onto Corbyn and was seen as a voter friendly face for some utterly nasty policies by Momentum. Voted as Deputy for the same reason.
Hence she can't be sidelined. Watson could, because the new party membership didn't support Watson...
Sway said:
El stovey said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:anonymoususer said:
So she's bettered herself then ?
I think that could be viewed as aspirational
Yes it could and it should.I think that could be viewed as aspirational
But something something tribal politics.
It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.
Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
A few decades ago only15% of students 18-30 went to a uk uni, rather than the current 50%. Many intelligent and hard-working older folks didn't get a degree for reasons other than aptitude and effort.
This HE expansion with degrees in Beckhamology is meant to show something about young 'educated' people and how they vote, rather than something about Blair inflating HE, and inflated grades at schools and unis.
Vanden Saab said:
Really? Personally I think the Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care would be perfect. Now there is a PM in waiting if ever I saw one.
I love the fact that even a proponent of his skills couldn't recall his name and had to use his title instead.I looked him up...apparently it is Jonathan Ashworth.
Means nothing? Certainly didn't to me, so here's a photo;
Personally, I'm still none the wiser.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:98elise said:
What has she achieved? For the majority of MP's the electorate just vote for rosette colour. Once you're the candidate you are a shoe in for the job.
She was part of the shadow cabinet that delivered the worst defeat for Labour in living memory!
As I said before I believe Deputy Leader is a post that's directly elected by the membership.She was part of the shadow cabinet that delivered the worst defeat for Labour in living memory!
The shadow cabinet point is a fair one but equally we have ministers in the cabinet who were fired for lying or incompetence and the Prime Minister was fired from two jobs (I think it was just two?) for lying.
Like I said I don't agree with most of what she says but I find it odd that we criticise people who have actually managed to make something of their life when you consider the way it was going at one point.
Damned if you do damned if you don't.
Your example of similar conservative MP's and the PM only reinforces the point. It's not some great achievement to become an MP. You don't need a skill, or any relevent experience. You just need to have the right ideology.
loafer123 said:
Vanden Saab said:
Really? Personally I think the Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care would be perfect. Now there is a PM in waiting if ever I saw one.
I love the fact that even a proponent of his skills couldn't recall his name and had to use his title instead.I looked him up...apparently it is Jonathan Ashworth.
Means nothing? Certainly didn't to me, so here's a photo;
Personally, I'm still none the wiser.
In the opposite column, he was happy to endorse and work for him.
turbobloke said:
Sway said:
El stovey said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:anonymoususer said:
So she's bettered herself then ?
I think that could be viewed as aspirational
Yes it could and it should.I think that could be viewed as aspirational
But something something tribal politics.
It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.
Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
A few decades ago only15% of students 18-30 went to a uk uni, rather than the current 50%. Many intelligent and hard-working older folks didn't get a degree for reasons other than aptitude and effort.
This HE expansion with degrees in Beckhamology is meant to show something about young 'educated' people and how they vote, rather than something about Blair inflating HE, and inflated grades at schools and unis.
I agree also that what people actually achieve is more important which is the point being made about Rayner.
In my view she’s done well and achieved a lot despite her circumstances. I don’t support her politics but I don’t think she’s unsuitable for her position due to her lack of academic qualifications. I think she’s unsuitable due to what she says and does.
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