Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?
Discussion
98elise said:
She appeals to the socialist element of the left just because she wants to damage/destroy success or excellence. She does that with no grasp of the consequences, much like her Marxist cohorts Corbyn and McDonnell. That's not an achievement, she simply won a popularity vote.
Your example of similar conservative MP's and the PM only reinforces the point. It's not some great achievement to become an MP. You don't need a skill, or any relevent experience. You just need to have the right ideology.
She still has pulled herself up from pretty humble beginnings and a disadvantage position. She left school at 16 pregnant with no qualifications and eventually decided she wanted to go into politics and ended up reaching deputy leader of her party. Your example of similar conservative MP's and the PM only reinforces the point. It's not some great achievement to become an MP. You don't need a skill, or any relevent experience. You just need to have the right ideology.
We might disagree with her ideology but that’s achieving something in my book.
turbobloke said:
Nor me, but I've seen spinny comments about age profiles.
A few decades ago only15% of students 18-30 went to a uk uni, rather than the current 50%. Many intelligent and hard-working older folks didn't get a degree for reasons other than aptitude and effort.
This HE expansion with degrees in Beckhamology is meant to show something about young 'educated' people and how they vote, rather than something about Blair inflating HE, and inflated grades at schools and unis.
Boomers seem to have a chip on their shoulders that many of their children are more educated than they are. A few decades ago only15% of students 18-30 went to a uk uni, rather than the current 50%. Many intelligent and hard-working older folks didn't get a degree for reasons other than aptitude and effort.
This HE expansion with degrees in Beckhamology is meant to show something about young 'educated' people and how they vote, rather than something about Blair inflating HE, and inflated grades at schools and unis.
El stovey said:
turbobloke said:
Sway said:
El stovey said:
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:anonymoususer said:
So she's bettered herself then ?
I think that could be viewed as aspirational
Yes it could and it should.I think that could be viewed as aspirational
But something something tribal politics.
It was her labour conference speech a few years ago that worried me, even her party had to dial back on her want to do things like seize the assets from private schools and assimilate them into the state.
Labour suddenly became the party that might take your property/stuff and even the momentum lot thought it sounded a bit Stalinist.
A few decades ago only15% of students 18-30 went to a uk uni, rather than the current 50%. Many intelligent and hard-working older folks didn't get a degree for reasons other than aptitude and effort.
This HE expansion with degrees in Beckhamology is meant to show something about young 'educated' people and how they vote, rather than something about Blair inflating HE, and inflated grades at schools and unis.
I agree also that what people actually achieve is more important which is the point being made about Rayner.
In my view she’s done well and achieved a lot despite her circumstances. I don’t support her politics but I don’t think she’s unsuitable for her position due to her lack of academic qualifications. I think she’s unsuitable due to what she says and does.
Pretty sure no one has ever written that education or qualifications aren't important. At most, it's been pointed out that low educational attainment in Leave voters doesn't mean low intelligence when the age of those voters is considered and the rates of degree attainment then. Doesn't describe Rayner though, as she's the era of GCSEs and much higher levels of university attendance.
Would be great if you rooted your arguments in reality, rather than creating false positions for those you don't agree with.
Biggy Stardust said:
biggbn said:
if your going to criticise other people's lack of education, might be an idea to check your spelling before hitting submit...irony, she is a fickle mistress but I do love her. 
Ahem!I try not to get into the spelling and grammar thing. I’m a million times more educated than Rayner as a result of not dropping out of school at 16, yet still make occasional autocorrect or spelling mistake.
El stovey said:
She still has pulled herself up from pretty humble beginnings and a disadvantage position. She left school at 16 pregnant with no qualifications and eventually decided she wanted to go into politics and ended up reaching deputy leader of her party.
We might disagree with her ideology but that’s achieving something in my book.
It's still not achieving an education.We might disagree with her ideology but that’s achieving something in my book.
It's insulting to the electorate that she was put in that post as if there was no one literally better qualified. She's a stooge, one that Starmer is stuck with and one I don't see the party can move on with.
768 said:
El stovey said:
She still has pulled herself up from pretty humble beginnings and a disadvantage position. She left school at 16 pregnant with no qualifications and eventually decided she wanted to go into politics and ended up reaching deputy leader of her party.
We might disagree with her ideology but that’s achieving something in my book.
It's still not achieving an education.We might disagree with her ideology but that’s achieving something in my book.
It's insulting to the electorate that she was put in that post as if there was no one literally better qualified. She's a stooge, one that Starmer is stuck with and one I don't see the party can move on with.
Her being in a cabinet would likely be a factor that would put me off voting for labour next GE, it’s not really insulting me that she’s there though, all parties have politicians that I might not think are going to be great leaders of our country.
Perhaps other people actually like Rayner and somehow identify with her and her politics. Plenty of people supported Farage I wouldn’t want to vote for him either.
768 said:
It's still not achieving an education.
It's insulting to the electorate that she was put in that post as if there was no one literally better qualified. She's a stooge, one that Starmer is stuck with and one I don't see the party can move on with.
She was voted in as an MP by the electorate and further voted in as DL by Labour Party members and their affiliates.It's insulting to the electorate that she was put in that post as if there was no one literally better qualified. She's a stooge, one that Starmer is stuck with and one I don't see the party can move on with.
She has never hidden her lack of formal education so the electorate in her constituency knew of this and still voted her in. Perhaps they put more importance in her performance and abilities than a educational certificate?
768 said:
El stovey said:
She still has pulled herself up from pretty humble beginnings and a disadvantage position. She left school at 16 pregnant with no qualifications and eventually decided she wanted to go into politics and ended up reaching deputy leader of her party.
We might disagree with her ideology but that’s achieving something in my book.
It's still not achieving an education.We might disagree with her ideology but that’s achieving something in my book.
It's insulting to the electorate that she was put in that post as if there was no one literally better qualified. She's a stooge, one that Starmer is stuck with and one I don't see the party can move on with.
MP and Directly elected Deputy Leader of a major political party or single mother with no qualifications living off benefits or earning minimum wage doing unskilled work (not that there's anything wrong with that).
Like I said damned if you do and damned if you don't.
valiant said:
768 said:
It's still not achieving an education.
It's insulting to the electorate that she was put in that post as if there was no one literally better qualified. She's a stooge, one that Starmer is stuck with and one I don't see the party can move on with.
She was voted in as an MP by the electorate and further voted in as DL by Labour Party members and their affiliates.It's insulting to the electorate that she was put in that post as if there was no one literally better qualified. She's a stooge, one that Starmer is stuck with and one I don't see the party can move on with.
She has never hidden her lack of formal education so the electorate in her constituency knew of this and still voted her in. Perhaps they put more importance in her performance and abilities than a educational certificate?
To have someone who hasn't even been to college / uni is laughable, what do they know about education? Reflected in her badly thought out idiology driven policies that all got binned as soon as they were announced. That's the performance that I judge an opposition member on. Do their policies get traction and force changes from the government.
valiant said:
She was voted in as an MP by the electorate and further voted in as DL by Labour Party members and their affiliates.
She has never hidden her lack of formal education so the electorate in her constituency knew of this and still voted her in. Perhaps they put more importance in her performance and abilities than a educational certificate?
They didn't put her in the Shadow Education Secretary post.She has never hidden her lack of formal education so the electorate in her constituency knew of this and still voted her in. Perhaps they put more importance in her performance and abilities than a educational certificate?
768 said:
valiant said:
She was voted in as an MP by the electorate and further voted in as DL by Labour Party members and their affiliates.
She has never hidden her lack of formal education so the electorate in her constituency knew of this and still voted her in. Perhaps they put more importance in her performance and abilities than a educational certificate?
They didn't put her in the Shadow Education Secretary post.She has never hidden her lack of formal education so the electorate in her constituency knew of this and still voted her in. Perhaps they put more importance in her performance and abilities than a educational certificate?
Proves that a uni education means nothing in the world of politics.
valiant said:
768 said:
valiant said:
She was voted in as an MP by the electorate and further voted in as DL by Labour Party members and their affiliates.
She has never hidden her lack of formal education so the electorate in her constituency knew of this and still voted her in. Perhaps they put more importance in her performance and abilities than a educational certificate?
They didn't put her in the Shadow Education Secretary post.She has never hidden her lack of formal education so the electorate in her constituency knew of this and still voted her in. Perhaps they put more importance in her performance and abilities than a educational certificate?
Proves that a uni education means nothing in the world of politics.
I'd rather a poor algorithm that didn't work and was swiftly replaced than that sort of idiologically driven destruction.
jakesmith said:
I'm sure he's doing better than she would, if she'd been in charge there would have been an increase in mandated food for children at schools even though many of them didn't have facilities capable of preparing it, limits to class sizes even though something like 75% of the schools didn't have the space to add the required classrooms, private schools would be priced out of the market purely out of spite, further increasing pressure on the state system, privately / charitably owned assets and land would have been seized by the state because envy, student debt would be effectively cancelled opening the floodgates for all manor of completely unsuitable people wasting tax money going to university.
I'd rather a poor algorithm that didn't work and was swiftly replaced than that sort of idiologically driven destruction.
I don’t disagree with much of that!I'd rather a poor algorithm that didn't work and was swiftly replaced than that sort of idiologically driven destruction.
My point is that certain posters are hanging their hat on the fact that a lack of education automatically makes you unsuitable to hold political office especially if it’s a politician from the ‘other side’ and the counterpoint that a decent education is no guarantee that you’ll be a brilliant politician or minister.
I know Rayner is a far leftish politician and I don’t agree with much of what she says but posters on here should criticise her, like you’ve eloquently done, on her policies and performance and not because she failed to take her home economics GCSE. That, to me, is clutching at straws in an attempt to smear when there are plenty of opportunities to actually criticise her like you’ve done.
El stovey said:
98elise said:
She appeals to the socialist element of the left just because she wants to damage/destroy success or excellence. She does that with no grasp of the consequences, much like her Marxist cohorts Corbyn and McDonnell. That's not an achievement, she simply won a popularity vote.
Your example of similar conservative MP's and the PM only reinforces the point. It's not some great achievement to become an MP. You don't need a skill, or any relevent experience. You just need to have the right ideology.
She still has pulled herself up from pretty humble beginnings and a disadvantage position. She left school at 16 pregnant with no qualifications and eventually decided she wanted to go into politics and ended up reaching deputy leader of her party. Your example of similar conservative MP's and the PM only reinforces the point. It's not some great achievement to become an MP. You don't need a skill, or any relevent experience. You just need to have the right ideology.
We might disagree with her ideology but that’s achieving something in my book.
Has there ever been an original idea come out of her head? (Well apart from the bat-s
t crazy stuff about taking over private school assets!)loafer123 said:
Vanden Saab said:
Really? Personally I think the Shadow Secretary of State for Health and Social Care would be perfect. Now there is a PM in waiting if ever I saw one.
I love the fact that even a proponent of his skills couldn't recall his name and had to use his title instead.I looked him up...apparently it is Jonathan Ashworth.
Means nothing? Certainly didn't to me, so here's a photo;
Personally, I'm still none the wiser.
valiant said:
768 said:
It's still not achieving an education.
It's insulting to the electorate that she was put in that post as if there was no one literally better qualified. She's a stooge, one that Starmer is stuck with and one I don't see the party can move on with.
She was voted in as an MP by the electorate and further voted in as DL by Labour Party members and their affiliates.It's insulting to the electorate that she was put in that post as if there was no one literally better qualified. She's a stooge, one that Starmer is stuck with and one I don't see the party can move on with.
She has never hidden her lack of formal education so the electorate in her constituency knew of this and still voted her in. Perhaps they put more importance in her performance and abilities than a educational certificate?
whoami said:
biggbn said:
Good to see you back Jake, and just for sts and giggles, if your going to criticise other people's lack of education, might be an idea to check your spelling before hitting submit...irony, she is a fickle mistress but I do love her.
Me too. ts and giggles, if your going to criticise other people's lack of education, might be an idea to check your spelling before hitting submit...irony, she is a fickle mistress but I do love her. biggbn said:
whoami said:
biggbn said:
Good to see you back Jake, and just for sts and giggles, if your going to criticise other people's lack of education, might be an idea to check your spelling before hitting submit...irony, she is a fickle mistress but I do love her.
Me too. ts and giggles, if your going to criticise other people's lack of education, might be an idea to check your spelling before hitting submit...irony, she is a fickle mistress but I do love her. jakesmith said:
Biggy Stardust said:
biggbn said:
if your going to criticise other people's lack of education, might be an idea to check your spelling before hitting submit...irony, she is a fickle mistress but I do love her.
Ahem!I try not to get into the spelling and grammar thing. I’m a million times more educated than Rayner as a result of not dropping out of school at 16, yet still make occasional autocorrect or spelling mistake.
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