Can Sir Keir Starmer revive the Labour Party?
Discussion
biggbn said:
Wonder how long till someone finds a way to turn this round and makes excuses for him....?
I guess with the Judges commentsJudge Hilary Manley, who delivered the sentencing, said that Eckersley was an “inadequate man” who “cannot cope with the reality of having reached your 50s without ever really achieving much save for a habit of sitting at your keyboard venting your frustration at others”.
We just wait to see which poster is conspicuous by their absence for the next two years
T6 vanman said:
I guess with the Judges comments
Judge Hilary Manley, who delivered the sentencing, said that Eckersley was an “inadequate man” who “cannot cope with the reality of having reached your 50s without ever really achieving much save for a habit of sitting at your keyboard venting your frustration at others”.
We just wait to see which poster is conspicuous by their absence for the next two years
That could be anyone!Judge Hilary Manley, who delivered the sentencing, said that Eckersley was an “inadequate man” who “cannot cope with the reality of having reached your 50s without ever really achieving much save for a habit of sitting at your keyboard venting your frustration at others”.
We just wait to see which poster is conspicuous by their absence for the next two years
N.B. I'm still here
Johnnytheboy said:
T6 vanman said:
I guess with the Judges comments
Judge Hilary Manley, who delivered the sentencing, said that Eckersley was an “inadequate man” who “cannot cope with the reality of having reached your 50s without ever really achieving much save for a habit of sitting at your keyboard venting your frustration at others”.
We just wait to see which poster is conspicuous by their absence for the next two years
That could be anyone!Judge Hilary Manley, who delivered the sentencing, said that Eckersley was an “inadequate man” who “cannot cope with the reality of having reached your 50s without ever really achieving much save for a habit of sitting at your keyboard venting your frustration at others”.
We just wait to see which poster is conspicuous by their absence for the next two years
N.B. I'm still here
N.B. I'm also still here
Well, its just over year since the question was first raised.
Lets look back on the scintallating year in which Sir Kier Starmer has confounded his critics, silenced the dissenters, revitalised a political movement and delivered a Labour party ready to defeat the Conservatives whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Erm.
He's a bit crap really isnt he?
Lets look back on the scintallating year in which Sir Kier Starmer has confounded his critics, silenced the dissenters, revitalised a political movement and delivered a Labour party ready to defeat the Conservatives whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Erm.
He's a bit crap really isnt he?
Tony427 said:
Well, its just over year since the question was first raised.
Lets look back on the scintallating year in which Sir Kier Starmer has confounded his critics, silenced the dissenters, revitalised a political movement and delivered a Labour party ready to defeat the Conservatives whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Erm.
He's a bit crap really isnt he?
Yep, he'll do nicely! Lets look back on the scintallating year in which Sir Kier Starmer has confounded his critics, silenced the dissenters, revitalised a political movement and delivered a Labour party ready to defeat the Conservatives whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Erm.
He's a bit crap really isnt he?
Tony427 said:
Well, its just over year since the question was first raised.
Lets look back on the scintallating year in which Sir Kier Starmer has confounded his critics, silenced the dissenters, revitalised a political movement and delivered a Labour party ready to defeat the Conservatives whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Erm.
He's a bit crap really isnt he?
Succinctly put. He's the invisible man....Lets look back on the scintallating year in which Sir Kier Starmer has confounded his critics, silenced the dissenters, revitalised a political movement and delivered a Labour party ready to defeat the Conservatives whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Erm.
He's a bit crap really isnt he?
Tony427 said:
Well, its just over year since the question was first raised.
Lets look back on the scintallating year in which Sir Kier Starmer has confounded his critics, silenced the dissenters, revitalised a political movement and delivered a Labour party ready to defeat the Conservatives whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Erm.
He's a bit crap really isnt he?
He's been disappointing.Lets look back on the scintallating year in which Sir Kier Starmer has confounded his critics, silenced the dissenters, revitalised a political movement and delivered a Labour party ready to defeat the Conservatives whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Erm.
He's a bit crap really isnt he?
Devil's advocate which naturally makes me a card carrying socialist.
- He's been in charge for a year.
- With a party divided between Corbynism and actually wanting to be fit to govern.
- With the stain of anti-semitism to deal with.
- In the middle of a global pandemic.
- Which has made doing half the stuff you'd want to do impossible like just going places in person.
- With three years to go before an election.
- Which people were always pointing out when the polls looked bad for Boris.
What did people actually expect a year after picking up that mess in those circumstances?
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hstewie said:
hstewie said:Tony427 said:
Well, its just over year since the question was first raised.
Lets look back on the scintallating year in which Sir Kier Starmer has confounded his critics, silenced the dissenters, revitalised a political movement and delivered a Labour party ready to defeat the Conservatives whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Erm.
He's a bit crap really isnt he?
He's been disappointing.Lets look back on the scintallating year in which Sir Kier Starmer has confounded his critics, silenced the dissenters, revitalised a political movement and delivered a Labour party ready to defeat the Conservatives whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Erm.
He's a bit crap really isnt he?
Devil's advocate which naturally makes me a card carrying socialist.
- He's been in charge for a year.
- With a party divided between Corbynism and actually wanting to be fit to govern.
- With the stain of anti-semitism to deal with.
- In the middle of a global pandemic.
- Which has made doing half the stuff you'd want to do impossible like just going places in person.
- With three years to go before an election.
- Which people were always pointing out when the polls looked bad for Boris.
What did people actually expect a year after picking up that mess in those circumstances?
If only you would do the same on Brexit....
loafer123 said:
I admire your “glass half full” approach.
If only you would do the same on Brexit....
It's not half full it's asking if you walked into a business and found it in that state what do you think you could do with it within a year in those circumstances?If only you would do the same on Brexit....
One obvious difference being you're literally stuck with all the staff that got it into that state.
People seem to conflate asking that question with support rather than thinking that an effective opposition is something everyone should want.
PushedDover said:
There is a validity there- however if he knew it was a basket case to take over - then why do it.
I do find it odd that however parlous the state of a party there are always people who want to lead it.Like the way that even when shares are in freefall, someone is buying.
PushedDover said:
There is a validity there- however if he knew it was a basket case to take over - then why do it.
Maybe he thinks he can turn it around?He's a QC and was in charge of the CPS so I'm not sure he's a typical career politician who's "never done a proper job in his life" is he?
My question is for all the criticism, and lots of it valid, what do people actually want to happen?
Would people be happier if someone like Long-Bailey had won and for us to be effectively a one-party nation with no meaningful opposition?
Feels like a case of be careful what you wish for.
YovGov said:
One in five (20%) believe Starmer “has done a bad job and made crucial mistakes that could have been avoided”, outnumbering the 13% who said “he has done a good job, making the right decisions to hold the government to account and make the party more electable”.
Labour voters are more likely to take the positive view than the negative, however, with 23% thinking Starmer has done a good job on his own terms, versus 16% who think he has done an actively bad job.
Less than a quarter of Labour voters think he has done a good job... Labour voters are more likely to take the positive view than the negative, however, with 23% thinking Starmer has done a good job on his own terms, versus 16% who think he has done an actively bad job.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Tony427 said:
Well, its just over year since the question was first raised.
Lets look back on the scintallating year in which Sir Kier Starmer has confounded his critics, silenced the dissenters, revitalised a political movement and delivered a Labour party ready to defeat the Conservatives whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Erm.
He's a bit crap really isnt he?
He's been disappointing.Lets look back on the scintallating year in which Sir Kier Starmer has confounded his critics, silenced the dissenters, revitalised a political movement and delivered a Labour party ready to defeat the Conservatives whenever the opportunity presents itself.
Erm.
He's a bit crap really isnt he?
Devil's advocate which naturally makes me a card carrying socialist.
- He's been in charge for a year.
- With a party divided between Corbynism and actually wanting to be fit to govern.
- With the stain of anti-semitism to deal with.
- In the middle of a global pandemic.
- Which has made doing half the stuff you'd want to do impossible like just going places in person.
- With three years to go before an election.
- Which people were always pointing out when the polls looked bad for Boris.
What did people actually expect a year after picking up that mess in those circumstances?
Sir Kier stood alongside Corbyn and backed his manifesto to the hilt. In the Leadership contest he promised to continue with Labours radical plans. Since becoming leader he's not distanced himself from those views.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: ....
What did people actually expect a year after picking up that mess in those circumstances?
He had 5yrs max to the next election. If he wanted to win it, this first year should have been clearing out the deadwood and setting out the framework for what he wants the Labour Party to be. There was a glimmer of hope on this with his handling of RLB. And then nothing. What did people actually expect a year after picking up that mess in those circumstances?
The pandemic actually provided a great opportunity on this. Avoid politicking on the pandemic (always a no win) and use the time to run through the party like a dose of salts.
Once the structure is sorted, then set it to working out proper policies for the next year or two.
Then advertise them, get support and tweak where needed.
Then spend a year effectively campaigning.
All of that IF the Tories don't bin off the FTPA. Which they probably should.
Outwardly it looks like he's wasted a year to me. His Shadow Cabinet makes the real one seem top drawer, which is some achievement. And do any of us really know where the party stands or is likely to stand on key issues?
Chances are the Tories are through their worst part of this term. And yet Labour and Starmer are behind (if polls mean anything. My views on those remain the same).
He needs to get his skates on if he's to be any sort of credible alternative even in 4yrs' time. And he may not have that long. He should be planning on not having that length of time.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: What did people actually expect a year after picking up that mess in those circumstances?
Ditch the loony left union barons, create clear space from momentum, publicly accept that the Corbyn offer of hard leftism is redolent of the 70s failures and needs ditching.For the first 'however' Starmer was a loyal lieutenant supporting those policies in the shadow cabinet.
For the second 'however' Starmer promised his union bosses - prior to his election as leader - to maintain Labour as a radical left outfit, i.e. an unelectable protest movement appealing to student activists and wolfie smith toytown trots.
What should anyone expect?
PushedDover said:
There is a validity there- however if he knew it was a basket case to take over - then why do it.
Why even join a basket case party, unelectable his entire life bar the obvious exception that proves the rule. It's presumably his preferred choice of rabble, so it seems unsurprising he continues to lead it in the same vein.Same book, different page.
What one needs to understand is that the Tories only have a 45% share of the poll admittedly Labour only have 36%
Neither party have more than 50% of people expressing delight with them
Therefore I think that can be interpreted as a moral victory for Sir Kier and a great starting point for when Jess takes over.
A woman of her standing will unit the country and I believe she will secure a comfortable working majority of around 40 MBPS
Neither party have more than 50% of people expressing delight with them
Therefore I think that can be interpreted as a moral victory for Sir Kier and a great starting point for when Jess takes over.
A woman of her standing will unit the country and I believe she will secure a comfortable working majority of around 40 MBPS
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