Would you install and use an NHS Covid tracking app?

[rxe]

bhstewie said:

"Police will not have access to data from the NHS Covid-19 app. The app is anonymous so the government does not know who has been sent instructions to self-isolate."

The police can demand your phone.
They can demand your phone password/code.
Per the above comment, the app is clear that it has told you to isolate.

Quite frankly, I trust them so little that it would not surprise me at all if they tried this.

[bitchstewie]

rxe said:

bhstewie said:

"Police will not have access to data from the NHS Covid-19 app. The app is anonymous so the government does not know who has been sent instructions to self-isolate."

The police can demand your phone.
They can demand your phone password/code.
Per the above comment, the app is clear that it has told you to isolate.

Quite frankly, I trust them so little that it would not surprise me at all if they tried this.

Yes and if you don't give them your passcode they could hit you over the head with a pipe wrench until you do.

If you want to keep doing down the never-ending rabbit hole of "but what if" that's up to you.

Use the app or don't use the app all I'm suggesting is at least make that decision based on accurate information rather than wibble.

[i4got]

rxe said:

The police can demand your phone.
They can demand your phone password/code.
Per the above comment, the app is clear that it has told you to isolate.

Quite frankly, I trust them so little that it would not surprise me at all if they tried this.

Ignoring an isolation request from the app is not illegal so so what if they ask for your phone. Only instructions from the test and trace people are illegal to ignore.

[Ntv]

bhstewie said:

grombot said:

For now....

Yes for now.

Should we advise people how to act now based on what you think may happen in the future?

This is ridiculous.

Indeed this Government is ridiculous and all bets are off

Anyone trust them to respect data privacy / security given they are doubling down on a BS strategy? I would not be surprised if they wanted their NHS app to be part of the police info but probably can’t pull it off

[pip t]

rxe said:

The police can demand your phone.
They can demand your phone password/code.
Per the above comment, the app is clear that it has told you to isolate.

Quite frankly, I trust them so little that it would not surprise me at all if they tried this.

If the app has told you to self isolate, and you intend to ignore it, the obvious thing to do to avoid the scenario is to delete the app before you go out, surely?!

If you, for some reason want to still have the app, just reinstall it. Bingo, clean app.

But as i4got said, the app requiring you to self isolate isn't legally enforceable - though admittedly I wouldn't really want to have that discussion with a policeman.

[Ntv]

bhstewie said:

rxe said:

bhstewie said:

"Police will not have access to data from the NHS Covid-19 app. The app is anonymous so the government does not know who has been sent instructions to self-isolate."

The police can demand your phone.
They can demand your phone password/code.
Per the above comment, the app is clear that it has told you to isolate.

Quite frankly, I trust them so little that it would not surprise me at all if they tried this.

Yes and if you don't give them your passcode they could hit you over the head with a pipe wrench until you do.

If you want to keep doing down the never-ending rabbit hole of "but what if" that's up to you.

Use the app or don't use the app all I'm suggesting is at least make that decision based on accurate information rather than wibble.

He’s making a decision based on not trusting an untrustworthy Government

LOL at that being wibble.

[Ntv]

pip t said:

rxe said:

The police can demand your phone.
They can demand your phone password/code.
Per the above comment, the app is clear that it has told you to isolate.

Quite frankly, I trust them so little that it would not surprise me at all if they tried this.

If the app has told you to self isolate, and you intend to ignore it, the obvious thing to do to avoid the scenario is to delete the app before you go out, surely?!

If you, for some reason want to still have the app, just reinstall it. Bingo, clean app.

But as i4got said, the app requiring you to self isolate isn't legally enforceable - though admittedly I wouldn't really want to have that discussion with a policeman.

I know. I wouldn’t go near the app

I think the points people have to grasp here are:

a) the govt cannot be trusted
b) the govt is desperate and likely to get more so
C) the govt can change the law overnight. There is almost no opposition to them in Parliament
D) non isolation is a major vector. Why would they not target it

[bitchstewie]

Ntv said:

He’s making a decision based on not trusting an untrustworthy Government

LOL at that being wibble.

You can uninstall it in about 5 seconds.

Unless you're suggesting the Government will change the law and the Police can stop you and demand to check the app all within that 5 seconds I'd say it's pretty much wibble.

If people don't want to use it fine but please just stop with the bullst conspiracy stuff as reasons not to do so.

[i4got]

Ntv said:

I know. I wouldn’t go near the app

I think the points people have to grasp here are:

a) the govt cannot be trusted
b) the govt is desperate and likely to get more so
C) the govt can change the law overnight. There is almost no opposition to them in Parliament
D) non isolation is a major vector. Why would they not target it

Because the based their app on a technology baseline delivered by Google and Apple that does not allow any data to leave a phone.

Frankly a banana has as much chance of transmitting personal data now or in the future that the NHS app.


Thats the bit that's 'wibble'

If you're worried about what the government *might* do in the future, then you would not have a mobile phone at all as they can get location data on you from dozens of tech and telecom companies without any public oversight.

[pip t]

There's two real arguments here that people are merging into one.

1) That the police/ Govt/ NHS/ whoever will be able to get data about you or enforce anything via *this* app. That is, as has been wonderfully put above, wibble. It simply can't do it - it doesn't hold or transmit any data that can tie it to you the individual, and can be removed from your phone in about 2 seconds flat should you wish.

2) That this is the beginning of a slippery slope into a technologically driven dystopian nightmare. Well, possibly. There are signs there, I freely admit that, and some of the possible end points are pretty disturbing. See China's social credit system for a preview of the possibilities. But I certainly wouldn't consider that to be inevitable, or even a likely outcome.

But it's humungously frustrating that people are merging the two.

[V88Dicky]

rxe said:

The police can demand your phone.
They can demand your phone password/code.
Per the above comment, the app is clear that it has told you to isolate.

Quite frankly, I trust them so little that it would not surprise me at all if they tried this.

Are you sure?

Pretty sure I've never been briefed this before my shift?

[frisbee]

V88Dicky said:

rxe said:

The police can demand your phone.
They can demand your phone password/code.
Per the above comment, the app is clear that it has told you to isolate.

Quite frankly, I trust them so little that it would not surprise me at all if they tried this.

Are you sure?

Pretty sure I've never been briefed this before my shift?

Well obviously there are the visible police force, which you are a member of. And then there is the secret police force....

Expect a knock on the door in about 10 minutes.

[V88Dicky]

frisbee said:

V88Dicky said:

rxe said:

The police can demand your phone.
They can demand your phone password/code.
Per the above comment, the app is clear that it has told you to isolate.

Quite frankly, I trust them so little that it would not surprise me at all if they tried this.

Are you sure?

Pretty sure I've never been briefed this before my shift?

Well obviously there are the visible police force, which you are a member of. And then there is the secret police force....

Expect a knock on the door in about 10 minutes.

Oh no!

[stongle]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Oh, FFS. The issue isn't the tech, govt access, aliens or lizards. Its bigger than that.

The techies may well have answered the privacy issue, but they can't sell Distributed Ledger Technology to the masses despite the advantages.

Its all about trust. The trust between government and people is broken.

Its not just broken for the "woke" ( for want of a better description ), but traditional Conservatives. I'm not talking ESG Rees Mogg types, but normal people. Sledge hammer to crack a nut isn't washing. Collective responsibility no longer exists as too many vectors have fked it. And if you ever watch a comedian, thats the one thing everyone picks up about the UK...

[survivalist]

As I understand it, you can only be I fined/prosecuted if you fail to self isolate if your have had a positive test result OR you have been contacted by Track and Trace.

This app telling you to isolate is neither.

With regard to police taking your phone, they might be able to do this, but you are under no obligation to reveal your pin code. So assuming you have one you are safe.

Think in the US they can’t make you unlock it with your finger, as taking a fingerprint is part of the existing process. Could be wrong about that last pint though.

Edited by survivalist on Sunday 18th October 21:16

[V88Dicky]

survivalist said:

As I understand it, you can only be fined/prosecuted if you fail to self isolate if your have had a positive test result OR you have been contacted by Track and Trace.

This app telling you to isolate is neither.

With regard to police taking your phone, they might be able to do this, but you are under no obligation to reveal your pin code. So assuming you have orb you are safe.

Think in the US they can’t make you unlock it with your finger, as taking a fingerprint is part of the exiting proceeding. Could be wrong about that last pint though.

Yes, I suppose this is possible, but only under PACE 1984 or TACT2000, in regards to a criminal investigation. I've not yet been given any briefing as to seizing a phone under the Coronavirus Act 2020.

Thankfully, I've not yet had ANY dealings with the public all year regarding the current bullst, and that is a blessing.
Other than one Victor Meldrew type who approached me last month, complaining that there was a girl in the Sainsbury's local who wasn't wearing a mask. I replied by saying if he'd considered if she had a hidden disability.

[M4cruiser]

V88Dicky said:

rxe said:

The police can demand your phone.
They can demand your phone password/code.
Per the above comment, the app is clear that it has told you to isolate.

Quite frankly, I trust them so little that it would not surprise me at all if they tried this.

Are you sure?

Pretty sure I've never been briefed this before my shift?

The police can certainly take your phone in certain circumstances (e.g. an RTA if they suspect you were distracted by texting ...).
Maybe they can for this too.
They don't need your PIN, there is investigative software that can read the phone to see what's happened to it. I.e. when was the app installed and deleted?

[M4cruiser]

AstonZagato said:

A couple of threads running on the use of tracking but I'd like to do a simple poll of whether people would use it or not. Something like this helped the Chinese and Singaporeans to attack Covid.

There are many reasons why people might not use it or feel that Big Brother is spying on them

There are many reasons to think it might have false positives or false negatives.

There are some obvious benefits too.

..
Please feel free to comment on why you would do what you choose above.

..
I'd be deleting it after the crisis abates though.

As I see it, the biggest problem with this App is that it doesn't benefit the primary User at all. It benefits other people, and there may be downsides to the primary user (e.g security of personal information, false positives so isolating unnecessarily). I had to think it through. If you've caught the virus, then being told that by the phone won't cure you any quicker, it just stops you spreading it to others.

There seems to be a culture of "looking after number one" in this country, and I don't just mean with health issues. Cultivating a society in which individuals support the whole community is beneficial but difficult to achieve.

[rxe]

bhstewie said:

Yes and if you don't give them your passcode they could hit you over the head with a pipe wrench until you do.

If you want to keep doing down the never-ending rabbit hole of "but what if" that's up to you.

Use the app or don't use the app all I'm suggesting is at least make that decision based on accurate information rather than wibble.

If you don’t give them access, then it’s 2 years inside. Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (2000).

[grumbledoak]

M4cruiser said:

There seems to be a culture of "looking after number one" in this country, and I don't just mean with health issues. Cultivating a society in which individuals support the whole community is beneficial but difficult to achieve.

Yes. Keep blaming the population. It will "become the truth" eventually.