Would you install and use an NHS Covid tracking app?

[grumbledoak]

Same on Android - Settings / Google / COVID-19

[Zirconia]

Seems a lot of people are surprised at this. This is not doing anything, it is the backend that can be used. Nothing will happen to your phone without an app.

Meanwhile. Skullduggery and manipulation continues to come out.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jun/20...

[RSTurboPaul]

Carl_Manchester said:

Biker 1 said:

I found similar on my Android phone. Is there any way of deleting this thing??
Slippery slope....

FYI - I think the way this is going, you will also need to turn off your WIFI and Bluetooth whenever you are near a place with a WIFI hotspot or, makesure that you do not auto-login to WIFI hotspots.

I login to many WIFI hot-spots (EE, BT, resturants, motorway service stations) and if you don't want to be tracked you will need to avoid all of these, it won't be just about the phone app - imho.

Do 'people' usually leave their wi-fi and bluetooth wide open all the time??!

[Mr E]

RSTurboPaul said:

Do 'people' usually leave their wi-fi and bluetooth wide open all the time??!

Yup

[Biker 1]

RSTurboPaul said:

Do 'people' usually leave their wi-fi and bluetooth wide open all the time??!

WiFi on pretty much all day (phone turned off at night...). I have unlimited broadband at work & home. Bluetooth only used in car & when using headphones.
Am I being secretly tracked every time I'm near another WiFi hotspot? Possibly, but, how many analysts would be needed to track every single WiFi enabled phone in the country??
I am not comfortable with the seemingly creeping surveillance state, but there are ways around it, like turning one's phone off.....

[bitchstewie]

RSTurboPaul said:

Do 'people' usually leave their wi-fi and bluetooth wide open all the time??!

Bluetooth no but only because I don't use my phone with any bluetooth peripherals.

If I did I wouldn't be switching it off and on on demand.

Wi-Fi is on permanently because why on earth wouldn't I?

[Zirconia]

People take the piss out of iDeivce buyers, one thing I learned from 6s was turning off wifi leaving home as the norm to maximise battery (blu always off) all under the handy swipe up menu
Started to leave the wifi on this new one.

Personally not worried about this back end on the phone.

[Zirconia]

Gromm said:

Zirconia said:

Seems a lot of people are surprised at this. This is not doing anything, it is the backend that can be used. Nothing will happen to your phone without an app.

Meanwhile. Skullduggery and manipulation continues to come out.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jun/20...

I’m surprised they didn’t try to 'adopt' any of the rival work/research without their content. Ask me how do I know.

Ahem, cough. clears throat.

How do you know?

[Zirconia]

Gromm said:

From experience. Not on the same scale but 'borrowed' something we do and instead of supporting what we do muscle us out, only to fail due to incompetence and laziness

• consent

Cheers. Understood.

[Lemming Train]

Zirconia said:

If I have been reading it correctly then the app (if one is downloaded) will need to be enabled separate to bluetooth. Meaning you can disable the app directly. As it stands, no app, nothing will happen as there is nothing to interact with. This was the deal with Apple and Google leaving the user in charge of privacy. Don't know what the NHS app did as it would not be using this system availability I think?

I also understand that at a suitable date it will be removed out of the code.

LOL !

[Welshbeef]

If you have an iPhone go to settings,privacy, health.

Then what do you see? Covid19 exposure logging (but turned off).

This was auto installed on android and iPhones this week a forced update. You cannot turn the logging on or off its blocked out.

This is nanny state and enforced tracking.

[pip t]

Lemming Train said:

Zirconia said:

If I have been reading it correctly then the app (if one is downloaded) will need to be enabled separate to bluetooth. Meaning you can disable the app directly. As it stands, no app, nothing will happen as there is nothing to interact with. This was the deal with Apple and Google leaving the user in charge of privacy. Don't know what the NHS app did as it would not be using this system availability I think?

I also understand that at a suitable date it will be removed out of the code.

LOL !

Yes it would appear you can toggle the exposure notification directly without switching off Bluetooth, which is handy for those of us living in flats etc - means I wouldn’t be needing to turn Bluetooth off at home (I can see a lot of my neighbours Bluetooth devices without actually being in contact with them, so would be at risk of incorrect ‘contacts’).

On the code removal, I can see where Lemming Train’s ‘lol’ comes from, but on this occasion I think you can pretty much trust that this would happen. Both Apple and Google have been pretty robust around this exposure notification system (much to the govts displeasure) and I see no reason why they wouldn’t continue to be so. They have nothing really to gain from it - there’s no motivation for them to continue running it after it becomes unnecessary (if it ever does).

[pip t]

Welshbeef said:

If you have an iPhone go to settings,privacy, health.

Then what do you see? Covid19 exposure logging (but turned off).

This was auto installed on android and iPhones this week a forced update. You cannot turn the logging on or off its blocked out.

This is nanny state and enforced tracking.

It was only auto installed if you have automatic updates switched on. Mine didn’t update to include it until I pressed the ‘install’ button.

At the moment it does nothing, it’s simply the coding to allow the app to function, if and when it becomes available. Without the app, it’s greyed out as there’s nothing for it to work with. Once you install an app that works with it, you’ll then have the ability to turn it on and off.

[AstonZagato]

Welshbeef said:

If you have an iPhone go to settings,privacy, health.

Then what do you see? Covid19 exposure logging (but turned off).

This was auto installed on android and iPhones this week a forced update. You cannot turn the logging on or off its blocked out.

This is nanny state and enforced tracking.

Nothing to worry about.

1. It is only the background API which allows trackers to work. It does nothing on its own.
2. You would need to download and install an app for it to activate. If you don't, it will do precisely nothing.
3. You can turn it off.
4. It works with bluetooth. Turn off bluetooth and it can't do anything.
5. It works on the decentralised model, so it isn’t telling “big brother” anything.
6. It doesn't use your GPS, so the government doesn't know where you are
7. It doesn't allow access to your contacts, so the government won't know with whom you are friends.
8. It would collect less data about you than you give to any number of companies like Facebook, Google, Amazon.
9. You can stop it working by wearing one of these:

[Zirconia]

pip t said:

Lemming Train said:

Zirconia said:

If I have been reading it correctly then the app (if one is downloaded) will need to be enabled separate to bluetooth. Meaning you can disable the app directly. As it stands, no app, nothing will happen as there is nothing to interact with. This was the deal with Apple and Google leaving the user in charge of privacy. Don't know what the NHS app did as it would not be using this system availability I think?

I also understand that at a suitable date it will be removed out of the code.

LOL !

Yes it would appear you can toggle the exposure notification directly without switching off Bluetooth, which is handy for those of us living in flats etc - means I wouldn’t be needing to turn Bluetooth off at home (I can see a lot of my neighbours Bluetooth devices without actually being in contact with them, so would be at risk of incorrect ‘contacts’).

On the code removal, I can see where Lemming Train’s ‘lol’ comes from, but on this occasion I think you can pretty much trust that this would happen. Both Apple and Google have been pretty robust around this exposure notification system (much to the govts displeasure) and I see no reason why they wouldn’t continue to be so. They have nothing really to gain from it - there’s no motivation for them to continue running it after it becomes unnecessary (if it ever does).

Code removal was one of the things touted I thought at the start?

Privacy mentioned in here
https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/...
https://covid19-static.cdn-apple.com/applications/...

That is user remains in control. I expect app developers can confirm this?

[bitchstewie]

Welshbeef said:

If you have an iPhone go to settings,privacy, health.

Then what do you see? Covid19 exposure logging (but turned off).

This was auto installed on android and iPhones this week a forced update. You cannot turn the logging on or off its blocked out.

This is nanny state and enforced tracking.

Replicate this 65 million times.

Jesus Christ.

[edh]

bhstewie said:

Welshbeef said:

If you have an iPhone go to settings,privacy, health.

Then what do you see? Covid19 exposure logging (but turned off).

This was auto installed on android and iPhones this week a forced update. You cannot turn the logging on or off its blocked out.

This is nanny state and enforced tracking.

Replicate this 65 million times.

Jesus Christ.

Similar confusion (but less panic) on my wife's book group whatsapp...

That's why getting it right first time was important. Confidence lost.

[pip t]

edh said:

Similar confusion (but less panic) on my wife's book group whatsapp...

That's why getting it right first time was important. Confidence lost.

And getting the communication about it right. Clear, concise, accurate and non waffly would be good. Preferably from someone clearly competent with technology. If they ever do release it, getting someone like this on the daily briefing would help.

So much of the hysteria about it is people simply not having the accurate information about it, so defaulting to heresay and tin-foilery.

[Mr E]

edh said:

Similar confusion (but less panic) on my wife's book group whatsapp...

That's why getting it right first time was important. Confidence lost.

The information on the screen is completely clear IMHO. If the user can’t understand that, then they wont understand or even listen to a briefing of more than 5 words.

Again. I have read the technical description of the data captured with the google-Apple code. I have pretty much zero privacy concerns if it’s implemented correctly.

I do have concerns that people will report Covid symptoms “for a laugh” resulting in false alarms.

[pip t]

Mr E said:

The information on the screen is completely clear IMHO. If the user can’t understand that, then they wont understand or even listen to a briefing of more than 5 words.

Again. I have read the technical description of the data captured with the google-Apple code. I have pretty much zero privacy concerns if it’s implemented correctly.

I do have concerns that people will report Covid symptoms “for a laugh” resulting in false alarms.

As I understand it the new A/G one will only use confirmed test results, not self assessment of symptoms, to trigger alerts. Though I can’t now find where I read that.

I take your point on the information in the settings screen, but from what you’ve said about reading the tech descriptions, you, like me are coming at this from a reasonable degree of technical knowledge. For a huge amount of people, the settings on their phone isn’t somewhere they frequently go, and they simply don’t know anything about how it all works. I don’t blame them for that by the way, it’s simply not interesting to a lot of people.

A simple factual presentation at the briefing showing things like:

- You can turn this on and off, and this is how
- You have to install the app, we can’t do it remotely
- No data gets sent anywhere out of your control
- G/A don’t get any data from it other than the fact that you’ve downloaded it

would go a long way to solving the potential uptake problem, provided it’s someone with credibility presenting it.