Coronavirus - the killer flu that will wipe us out? (Vol. 7)
Discussion
The Spruce Goose said:
USA has increasing cases and high face mask usage....that doesn't seem to correlate as you would think???
You'd have to take it state by state, it's too big a country to treat as a homogenous set of numbers.New York will look excellent at a guess - high mask usage, high population and low cases.
Arizona, Texas, Florida, less so.
vaud said:
You'd have to take it state by state, it's too big a country to treat as a homogenous set of numbers.
New York will look excellent at a guess - high mask usage, high population and low cases.
Arizona, Texas, Florida, less so.
looking as this doesn't seem to make much difference to cases. New York will look excellent at a guess - high mask usage, high population and low cases.
Arizona, Texas, Florida, less so.
Masks only really work with a proper track and trace isolation system.
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/7wCUhBgu[/url]https://www.statista.com/chart/21687/share-of-the-...
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/corona...
grumbledoak said:
philv said:
It's so obvious masks help prevent. The spread and therefore reduce deaths.
What is it that so offends people that they should wear masks?
No. It isn't obvious. What is it that so offends people that they should wear masks?
Surgical masks, in appropriate circumstances, changed regularly by people trained to use them? Yes, they probably do. We're not supposed to have them.
Random bits of cloth kept on all day by untrained, panicking members of the public? Show me the proof. And a proper (hell, any) analysis of the downsides of wearing a piece of random cloth over your mouth and nose day after day - oxygen reduction, exhaust build up, moisture, pathogen growth. They must be a little petri dish after a few hours.
Plus the fact that you would struggle to find someone with COVID-19 at random on the High St to catch it front m. This has always been a disease of confined spaces and occupants.
Whether it be a 6 foot wall, a feather or anything inbetween.
Masks at all times for me.
If only in enclosed spaces like shops, then masks are taken off and put back on multiple times, increasing the risks of cntamination.
Sorry, but it is obvious to me.
I'd rather have a virus covered mask, than a virus covered face.
And people only sneeze, cough, touch their eyes and mouth, spread spittle when talking, etc in confined spaces?
They don't do any of that outdoors?
vaud said:
That's from May...
doesn't make it invalid offer a counter?If you really want to know what is needed, this is a good article on Germany's approach.
https://www.ft.com/content/cc1f650a-91c0-4e1f-b990...
How Germany got coronavirus right
Edited by anonymous-user on Friday 10th July 22:53
philv said:
Anything in front of your face will offer a degree of protection.
Whether it be a 6 foot wall, a feather or anything inbetween.
Masks at all times for me.
If only in enclosed spaces like shops, then masks are taken off and put back on multiple times, increasing the risks of cntamination.
Sorry, but it is obvious to me.
I'd rather have a virus covered mask, than a virus covered face.
And people only sneeze, cough, touch their eyes and mouth, spread spittle when talking, etc in confined spaces?
They don't do any of that outdoors?
The point of "face coverings" in this context isn't to stop things getting in, it's to stop things getting out.Whether it be a 6 foot wall, a feather or anything inbetween.
Masks at all times for me.
If only in enclosed spaces like shops, then masks are taken off and put back on multiple times, increasing the risks of cntamination.
Sorry, but it is obvious to me.
I'd rather have a virus covered mask, than a virus covered face.
And people only sneeze, cough, touch their eyes and mouth, spread spittle when talking, etc in confined spaces?
They don't do any of that outdoors?
They aren't being mandated to protect the wearer but those around the wearer.
Edited by RTB on Friday 10th July 23:19
The Krakon awakes....
Dear, oh dear...
The Prime Minister will use an update on virus strategy to press employers to start ordering their staff back to the workplace - if it is safe. He and Chancellor Rishi Sunak are said to be aghast at the impact empty offices are having on town centre shops and restaurants - and worried that widespread homeworking is wrecking Britain's productivity. Government sources say Mr Johnson told Whitehall chiefs this week to set an example by starting to return civil servants to their desks. On a conference call with 200 senior civil servants, he said it was 'more efficient and productive' than working from home. Mr Johnson hinted at the new strategy in a public Q&A session yesterday, saying people should 'start to go to work now if you can' and adding: 'I want to see more people feeling confident to use the shops, use the restaurants, and get back into work - but only if we all follow the guidance. The faster we can get back to the status quo the better.' The PM has asked officials for a 'Roadmap 2' for returning to a more normal life, with a nine-month timetable for scrapping most social distancing rules. He is wrangling with Government scientists about how to do it safely. Pictured left: The Prime Minister in Uxbridge. Top right: London's Victoria Station. Bottom right: South Bank.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8511629/B...
And only a 9 month exit strategy as well...
Sounds like some hard choices are on the horizon. Now ffs go back to work...
Dear, oh dear...
The Prime Minister will use an update on virus strategy to press employers to start ordering their staff back to the workplace - if it is safe. He and Chancellor Rishi Sunak are said to be aghast at the impact empty offices are having on town centre shops and restaurants - and worried that widespread homeworking is wrecking Britain's productivity. Government sources say Mr Johnson told Whitehall chiefs this week to set an example by starting to return civil servants to their desks. On a conference call with 200 senior civil servants, he said it was 'more efficient and productive' than working from home. Mr Johnson hinted at the new strategy in a public Q&A session yesterday, saying people should 'start to go to work now if you can' and adding: 'I want to see more people feeling confident to use the shops, use the restaurants, and get back into work - but only if we all follow the guidance. The faster we can get back to the status quo the better.' The PM has asked officials for a 'Roadmap 2' for returning to a more normal life, with a nine-month timetable for scrapping most social distancing rules. He is wrangling with Government scientists about how to do it safely. Pictured left: The Prime Minister in Uxbridge. Top right: London's Victoria Station. Bottom right: South Bank.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8511629/B...
And only a 9 month exit strategy as well...
Sounds like some hard choices are on the horizon. Now ffs go back to work...
RTB said:
philv said:
Anything in front of your face will offer a degree of protection.
Whether it be a 6 foot wall, a feather or anything inbetween.
Masks at all times for me.
If only in enclosed spaces like shops, then masks are taken off and put back on multiple times, increasing the risks of cntamination.
Sorry, but it is obvious to me.
I'd rather have a virus covered mask, than a virus covered face.
And people only sneeze, cough, touch their eyes and mouth, spread spittle when talking, etc in confined spaces?
They don't do any of that outdoors?
The point of "face coverings" in this context isn't to stop things getting in, it's to stop things getting out.Whether it be a 6 foot wall, a feather or anything inbetween.
Masks at all times for me.
If only in enclosed spaces like shops, then masks are taken off and put back on multiple times, increasing the risks of cntamination.
Sorry, but it is obvious to me.
I'd rather have a virus covered mask, than a virus covered face.
And people only sneeze, cough, touch their eyes and mouth, spread spittle when talking, etc in confined spaces?
They don't do any of that outdoors?
They aren't being mandated to protect the wearer but those around the wearer.
Edited by RTB on Friday 10th July 23:19
All these spread the virus indoor and outdoors.
All are reduced by wearing a mask.
philv said:
Spittle, sneezing, touch eyes/nose/mouth and then touching surfaces, coughing, spitting, etc.
All these spread the virus indoor and outdoors.
All are reduced by wearing a mask.
Precisely. Wearing a mask does help to keep these things inside the infected person, so they don't get onto surfaces or other people. The sorts of masks and face-coverings being mandated won't do much if you manage to get them contaminated from the outside though, any moisture will wick the virus straight through them. My point is that masks aren't there to protect the wearer, but to protect other people from the wearer.All these spread the virus indoor and outdoors.
All are reduced by wearing a mask.
The fomite issue is best tackled by hand washing rather than facemask wearing.
Wash your hands and don't touch your face is still the best advice to avoid all sorts of infections.
The Spruce Goose said:
Why do you say that?The Spruce Goose said:
OzzyR1 said:
Why do you say that?
"Walking away from the EU vaccines scheme is putting ideology ahead of public health."OzzyR1 said:
I would expect that sort of statement from the Lib Dems and other opposing parties, but do you believe that yourself or are you just repeating it because it fits in with your preferred anti-Tory narrative?
why is it anti tory to question very questionable actions?For a start the US are buying up all CV19 related drugs, the EU will have 2.7 bullion at the least and massive buying power. Just like PPE do you really think we will get the best deals we just can't compete at this scale, USA,China, Eu etc, and this is the time to put politics aside and look after the health of the nation, whatever your party, surely that is pretty clear.
The Spruce Goose said:
OzzyR1 said:
I would expect that sort of statement from the Lib Dems and other opposing parties, but do you believe that yourself or are you just repeating it because it fits in with your preferred anti-Tory narrative?
why is it anti tory to question very questionable actions?For a start the US are buying up all CV19 related drugs, the EU will have 2.7 bullion at the least and massive buying power. Just like PPE do you really think we will get the best deals we just can't compete at this scale, USA,China, Eu etc, and this is the time to put politics aside and look after the health of the nation, whatever your party, surely that is pretty clear.
I have some experience in these types of situation, not a lot, but enough to have gained a bit of knowledge.
What you said above about the USA and the EU is spot on, and supports my point more than yours imho.
Let's take the US, they are buying up all the Remdesivir as reported in the news, but the reason they can do that is that they are the ones funding the research and development of the drug, so they have first dibs on it.
If you do some digging, the EU have the same viewpoint. France and Germany are putting the cash into pharmaceutical firms, but as they are doing the the funding, they want the similar equity share from it. Any developed Covid suppressant/vaccine will be lionised by France/Germany for their population before it filters down through Spain, Italy and then the more junior members of the EU might get a sniff eventually.
The EU isn't a friendly organisation, they will stab anyone in the back (including their own members) to save their skin.
The UK is doing it's own research and funding and we are pretty good at it. If we joined the EU consortium, we would be required to stop any negotiations with manufacturers with which the EU has launched negotiations and it would not be possible for the UK to have a role in the governance shaping decisions on which manufacturers negotiate with, or the price, volume and delivery schedule negotiated.
Does that sound like a good deal to you?
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