Coronavirus - the killer flu that will wipe us out? (Vol. 7)
Discussion
MX5Biologist said:
Ventilator Challenge UK has now stood down, and its members reverting to their normal operations.
The initial government order was 30,000 additional ventilators, based on usage rates in China and Italy. This was reduced to 18,000 and then 14,000. Ventilator Challenge delivered a remarkable 13,400 machines, hitting 400 per day at one point. The government likely made up the difference through normal channels. My understanding is that from late January, the UK started buying up additional ventilator supplies globally, on the quiet; this is essentially identifying any existing stock of types approved in the UK.
Most people don't understand there are basically two types of ventilator. There is the ICU ventilator; the complex, tubes down throat machine. And then there is the portable or transport ventilator usually used, as the name implies, during transport of patients, but which is also useful in a hospital setting. There was a need for additional machines, but the judgement was what was the split in machines.
With COVID-19, what has emerged is there are significant clinical differences from ARDS. With ARDS, a patient's lung loses elasticity, and mechanical ventilation is a necessity. But its always been known that mechanical ventilation can create complications. With COVID-19, the lungs remain elastic, and the infection has more in common with a vascular disease rather than a respiratory disease. Patients' lungs become clogged with debris. Modified CPAPs devices were originally devised as something to bridge the gap in ventilator shortages, but have been shown to have clinical efficacy.
The reduced need for ventilators is a combination of both improved knowledge of the virus, but also an evolving standard of care. I don't think anyone should be pilloried for being cautious at the start.
Thank you. So good to read some common sense that even a layman can understand.The initial government order was 30,000 additional ventilators, based on usage rates in China and Italy. This was reduced to 18,000 and then 14,000. Ventilator Challenge delivered a remarkable 13,400 machines, hitting 400 per day at one point. The government likely made up the difference through normal channels. My understanding is that from late January, the UK started buying up additional ventilator supplies globally, on the quiet; this is essentially identifying any existing stock of types approved in the UK.
Most people don't understand there are basically two types of ventilator. There is the ICU ventilator; the complex, tubes down throat machine. And then there is the portable or transport ventilator usually used, as the name implies, during transport of patients, but which is also useful in a hospital setting. There was a need for additional machines, but the judgement was what was the split in machines.
With COVID-19, what has emerged is there are significant clinical differences from ARDS. With ARDS, a patient's lung loses elasticity, and mechanical ventilation is a necessity. But its always been known that mechanical ventilation can create complications. With COVID-19, the lungs remain elastic, and the infection has more in common with a vascular disease rather than a respiratory disease. Patients' lungs become clogged with debris. Modified CPAPs devices were originally devised as something to bridge the gap in ventilator shortages, but have been shown to have clinical efficacy.
The reduced need for ventilators is a combination of both improved knowledge of the virus, but also an evolving standard of care. I don't think anyone should be pilloried for being cautious at the start.
turbobloke said:
The Spruce Goose said:
why is it anti tory to question very questionable actions?
Not least because 'questionable' is subjective and in the eye of the beholder when only partial and inhomogeneous data is available near half-time. Such firm premature adjudication is an indicator of bias.If it’s early enough for Boris to blame carehomes it’s certainly early enough to see the mistakes.
markyb_lcy said:
Slagathore said:
If anything, they're going to have an excess if they all prove successful
Yea, and of course that's really likely an outcome, isn't it? 
The impression I got the GSK one was they would commit to buying them if they are successful, as in, you develop it and we guarantee to buy 60M doses if it works. SO if the Oxford Vaccine works and the GSK one works, they'll have been committed to paying out on both. I think it's a good move to cover bases and have a backup.
https://www.cityam.com/glaxosmithkline-set-to-bag-...
I have no idea which vaccines are most likely to succeed, but the point I was making was that not opting in to the EU scheme doesn't appear to be such a problem when the government have made preparations already.
Astra Zeneca and GSK are two massive players in pharma and the Oxford vaccine looks to be one of the most promising yet. So I suspect there is a good deal of confidence around the 2 options.
dmahon said:
Welshbeef said:
To jump the vaccine queue how much would any username here be prepared to pay? Assuming it was 100% guaranteed to work.
You can have mine for free. Couldn’t care less and wouldn’t take it even if I did!Slagathore said:
Thanks. That must be the 100m doses mentioned in the article I linked. And then 60M of the GSK one if it proves successful, so I think it's safe to say they have their bases covered for supply of a vaccine.
If anything, they're going to have an excess if they all prove successful and they've committed to buying then. So I look forward to some then complaining they bought too much
Why are you thinking that’s all for the U.K. population the “were alright jack”? If this works brilliant but it’s for all to cut down globally deaths. If anything, they're going to have an excess if they all prove successful and they've committed to buying then. So I look forward to some then complaining they bought too much
Just as would be the case if ours doesn’t work but another countries does but they flag due to demand U.K. doesn’t get it until 2025.
dmahon said:
Welshbeef said:
To jump the vaccine queue how much would any username here be prepared to pay? Assuming it was 100% guaranteed to work.
You can have mine for free. Couldn’t care less and wouldn’t take it even if I did!Welshbeef said:
Slagathore said:
Thanks. That must be the 100m doses mentioned in the article I linked. And then 60M of the GSK one if it proves successful, so I think it's safe to say they have their bases covered for supply of a vaccine.
If anything, they're going to have an excess if they all prove successful and they've committed to buying then. So I look forward to some then complaining they bought too much
Why are you thinking that’s all for the U.K. population the “were alright jack”? If this works brilliant but it’s for all to cut down globally deaths. If anything, they're going to have an excess if they all prove successful and they've committed to buying then. So I look forward to some then complaining they bought too much
Just as would be the case if ours doesn’t work but another countries does but they flag due to demand U.K. doesn’t get it until 2025.
Slagathore said:
markyb_lcy said:
Slagathore said:
If anything, they're going to have an excess if they all prove successful
Yea, and of course that's really likely an outcome, isn't it? The impression I got the GSK one was they would commit to buying them if they are successful, as in, you develop it and we guarantee to buy 60M doses if it works. SO if the Oxford Vaccine works and the GSK one works, they'll have been committed to paying out on both. I think it's a good move to cover bases and have a backup.
https://www.cityam.com/glaxosmithkline-set-to-bag-...
I have no idea which vaccines are most likely to succeed, but the point I was making was that not opting in to the EU scheme doesn't appear to be such a problem when the government have made preparations already.
Astra Zeneca and GSK are two massive players in pharma and the Oxford vaccine looks to be one of the most promising yet. So I suspect there is a good deal of confidence around the 2 options.
Any takers?
s2art said:
dmahon said:
Welshbeef said:
To jump the vaccine queue how much would any username here be prepared to pay? Assuming it was 100% guaranteed to work.
You can have mine for free. Couldn’t care less and wouldn’t take it even if I did!Welshbeef said:
Slagathore said:
Thanks. That must be the 100m doses mentioned in the article I linked. And then 60M of the GSK one if it proves successful, so I think it's safe to say they have their bases covered for supply of a vaccine.
If anything, they're going to have an excess if they all prove successful and they've committed to buying then. So I look forward to some then complaining they bought too much
Why are you thinking that’s all for the U.K. population the “were alright jack”? If this works brilliant but it’s for all to cut down globally deaths. If anything, they're going to have an excess if they all prove successful and they've committed to buying then. So I look forward to some then complaining they bought too much
Just as would be the case if ours doesn’t work but another countries does but they flag due to demand U.K. doesn’t get it until 2025.
https://inews.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-vacci...
"According to AstraZeneca, making each dose of the vaccine costs about as much as a cup of coffee. Two billion doses have already been ordered.
The company has agreed to supply over a billion doses to Europe, Britain, America, and Gavi, a vaccine finance group. The Serum Institute of India is also producing an additional one billion doses of the Oxford vaccine, mainly for low- and middle-income countries, of which 400 million will be made before the end of 2020. In Britain, 30 million doses will be available by September."
Looks like there's going to be enough to go around.
Slagathore said:
Oxford are developing the vaccine, Astrazeneca will produce it, so we're not denying anyone access to it, and other countries will benefit.
https://inews.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-vacci...
"According to AstraZeneca, making each dose of the vaccine costs about as much as a cup of coffee. Two billion doses have already been ordered.
The company has agreed to supply over a billion doses to Europe, Britain, America, and Gavi, a vaccine finance group. The Serum Institute of India is also producing an additional one billion doses of the Oxford vaccine, mainly for low- and middle-income countries, of which 400 million will be made before the end of 2020. In Britain, 30 million doses will be available by September."
Looks like there's going to be enough to go around.
Superb. https://inews.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-vacci...
"According to AstraZeneca, making each dose of the vaccine costs about as much as a cup of coffee. Two billion doses have already been ordered.
The company has agreed to supply over a billion doses to Europe, Britain, America, and Gavi, a vaccine finance group. The Serum Institute of India is also producing an additional one billion doses of the Oxford vaccine, mainly for low- and middle-income countries, of which 400 million will be made before the end of 2020. In Britain, 30 million doses will be available by September."
Looks like there's going to be enough to go around.
I for one would be extremely happy if we the U.K. used the 0.7% of GDP and gave the vaccine away to every other country.
In so doing we the U.K. would without question be a great nation in doing such a thing. We would make friends everywhere and rebuild bridges that may be damaged.
It’s so so powerful to do it and really - just like donating a to charity it feels great doing it I’d wager doing this and actually saving lives everywhere.
The Spruce Goose said:
i think what has helped is Boris very close, i think Trump called him a personal Friend, lets hope Trump does another term, he has helped the UK out quite a few times in this crisis as we have shunned the EU support.
Oh yes, Trump has definitely helped Boris. Helped him by being even more spectacularly incompetent at dealing with Coronavirus and not destroying the economy!frisbee said:
The Spruce Goose said:
i think what has helped is Boris very close, i think Trump called him a personal Friend, lets hope Trump does another term, he has helped the UK out quite a few times in this crisis as we have shunned the EU support.
Oh yes, Trump has definitely helped Boris. Helped him by being even more spectacularly incompetent at dealing with Coronavirus and not destroying the economy!‘Oh great! Jeffrey Epstein’s friend who has absolutely destroyed any chance America might have had against this virus, says I’m his friend too!’
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