Cummings and goings...
Discussion
Jasandjules said:
Especially the members of his family producing IT contracts for the NHS? Oh, wait....
I'm not aware of that, but a quick google of 'Dominc Cummings family IT NHS give:https://fullfact.org/online/not-dominic-cummings-s...
If there's something else, then please post it and show how it was a waste of taxpayer money or a failure? And then remember the MOD have been doing this for decades and it isn't something that has only happened during a pandemic.
The only things I have seen him linked to with the NHS was the Babylon Health stuff. But I don't think that was failed procurement or waste?
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
DC is spot on, but he is just stating what we all used to know. The Thatcher government recognised it, leading to a solution of putting as much as possible into the private sector and allowing Darwin to take over. Maybe there is a better way than that, but first accept that the public sector (and I am looking at you MOD) is s
t at procurement.
It's not about making it better: if it was, scenarios like this wouldn't occur. https://inews.co.uk/news/health/government-ppe-con... - it's about exchanging a corrupt system that doesn't suit to one that does...t at procurement.Slagathore said:
Quite. We complain about government and public sector waste, but when someone wants to actually do something about it, all of sudden it's a problem.
"A post on Cummings’s blog in March described the procurement process as a farce that “has continued to squander billions of pounds, enriching some of the worst corporate looters and corrupting public life via the revolving door of officials/lobbyists”.
From - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/16/do...
I'd have thought that's a sentiment everyone could get behind!
And yet we have him working with a government who exemplify corporate corruption. You don’t need to look much further than the boards of companies winning contracts within the NHS to see that. "A post on Cummings’s blog in March described the procurement process as a farce that “has continued to squander billions of pounds, enriching some of the worst corporate looters and corrupting public life via the revolving door of officials/lobbyists”.
From - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/dec/16/do...
I'd have thought that's a sentiment everyone could get behind!
It is a noble sentiment, but like so much of what Cummings writes, it’s not the words, it is the lack of understanding of what they mean, or the deliberate contradiction of saying one thing and doing precisely the other.
Magikarp said:
And yet we have him working with a government who exemplify corporate corruption. You don’t need to look much further than the boards of companies winning contracts within the NHS to see that.
How closely have you ever looked at NHS procurement prior to this emergency?Magikarp said:
And yet we have him working with a government who exemplify corporate corruption. You don’t need to look much further than the boards of companies winning contracts within the NHS to see that.
It is a noble sentiment, but like so much of what Cummings writes, it’s not the words, it is the lack of understanding of what they mean, or the deliberate contradiction of saying one thing and doing precisely the other.
And hopefully that will come to an end. We'll have to wait and see. I won't hold my breath, but it would be a nice surprise if someone actually delivered for once.It is a noble sentiment, but like so much of what Cummings writes, it’s not the words, it is the lack of understanding of what they mean, or the deliberate contradiction of saying one thing and doing precisely the other.
I'm sick to death of reading stories about procurement and waste within the public sector, and it's not just isolated to the NHS or MOD etc, so it suggests there is something fundamentally wrong somewhere. It's either the people or the rules, or probably both.
I think everyone would welcome changes in that regard and I do hope it is something that is addressed. I'd imagine in the wake of Cornonavirus, things will be changing anyway.
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
DC is spot on, but he is just stating what we all used to know. The Thatcher government recognised it, leading to a solution of putting as much as possible into the private sector and allowing Darwin to take over. Maybe there is a better way than that, but first accept that the public sector (and I am looking at you MOD) is st at procurement.
It's not about making it better: if it was, scenarios like this wouldn't occur. https://inews.co.uk/news/health/government-ppe-con... - it's about exchanging a corrupt system that doesn't suit to one that does...t at procurement.Tuna said:
How closely have you ever looked at NHS procurement prior to this emergency?
I know what you’re getting at, and I’ll admit that I haven’t looked myself, but my wife is a consultant and sees the problems on a daily basis. My issue with this peculiar little man is that he is not proposing change for universal benefit, but to fulfil some odd ideological theory that he’s read but not understood.
Magikarp said:
I know what you’re getting at, and I’ll admit that I haven’t looked myself, but my wife is a consultant and sees the problems on a daily basis.
My issue with this peculiar little man is that he is not proposing change for universal benefit, but to fulfil some odd ideological theory that he’s read but not understood.
The obvious question is whether you've read his blog very much? There's a bit more there than just ideological theory.My issue with this peculiar little man is that he is not proposing change for universal benefit, but to fulfil some odd ideological theory that he’s read but not understood.
Tuna said:
youngsyr said:
The issue isn't the reform, it's the piece meal destruction of our democracy as the price that many have an issue with.
I thought that much would be obvious?
Where exactly has democracy been destroyed?I thought that much would be obvious?
Let's take them one by one, starting with his unprecedented and illegal suspension of Parliament (proroguing).
Tuna said:
Magikarp said:
I know what you’re getting at, and I’ll admit that I haven’t looked myself, but my wife is a consultant and sees the problems on a daily basis.
My issue with this peculiar little man is that he is not proposing change for universal benefit, but to fulfil some odd ideological theory that he’s read but not understood.
The obvious question is whether you've read his blog very much? There's a bit more there than just ideological theory.My issue with this peculiar little man is that he is not proposing change for universal benefit, but to fulfil some odd ideological theory that he’s read but not understood.
Are you not even a little bit concerned that he might be using it to manipulate people's view of him?
Personally, I'm a big believer in judging people by their actions rather than their words.
youngsyr said:
Frankly I'm amazed that, given his reputation, you seem to have taken his self-promotion at face value.
No, I've read his blog to see what his 'ideology' actually consists of, what his references are and what he's trying to achieve.Know your enemy and all that.
It's a better approach than demonising or dehumanising anyone you disagree with, and working from second hand reports of what they've done.
Tuna said:
youngsyr said:
Frankly I'm amazed that, given his reputation, you seem to have taken his self-promotion at face value.
No, I've read his blog to see what his 'ideology' actually consists of, what his references are and what he's trying to achieve.Know your enemy and all that.
It's a better approach than demonising or dehumanising anyone you disagree with, and working from second hand reports of what they've done.
s2art said:
youngsyr said:
What about demonising based on the first hand reports of what they've done - unless you're buying the whole "eye test in a beauty spot on my wife's birthday" line?
Couldnt give a toss about it.Surely you do give a toss, at least enough to type out that response?
youngsyr said:
Tuna said:
youngsyr said:
The issue isn't the reform, it's the piece meal destruction of our democracy as the price that many have an issue with.
I thought that much would be obvious?
Where exactly has democracy been destroyed?I thought that much would be obvious?
Let's take them one by one, starting with his unprecedented and illegal suspension of Parliament (proroguing).
youngsyr said:
s2art said:
youngsyr said:
What about demonising based on the first hand reports of what they've done - unless you're buying the whole "eye test in a beauty spot on my wife's birthday" line?
Couldnt give a toss about it.Surely you do give a toss, at least enough to type out that response?
youngsyr said:
Would you like a list?!
Let's take them one by one, starting with his unprecedented and illegal suspension of Parliament (proroguing).
Hardly worth responding if you're going to lie. Proroguing was not illegal, and did not in the event prevent democratic decisions being made as I understand it. Unlike the attempts to "Stop Brexit", which certainly were about enabling a minority overturn a majority decision. I presume you were against that given your high moral standards?Let's take them one by one, starting with his unprecedented and illegal suspension of Parliament (proroguing).
What other 'destruction of democracy' were you thinking of? Or was that it - parliament had a slightly longer holiday?
Tuna said:
youngsyr said:
Would you like a list?!
Let's take them one by one, starting with his unprecedented and illegal suspension of Parliament (proroguing).
Hardly worth responding if you're going to lie. Proroguing was not illegal, and did not in the event prevent democratic decisions being made as I understand it.Let's take them one by one, starting with his unprecedented and illegal suspension of Parliament (proroguing).
President of UK Supreme Court Lady Hale said:
“This court has … concluded that the prime minister’s advice to Her Majesty [ to suspend parliament] was unlawful, void and of no effect.”
Illegal and unlawful seem reasonably interchangeable to me but of course I’m not legal expert.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff