Cummings and goings...

Author
Discussion

Tuna

19,930 posts

284 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
deadslow said:
pity Tory cronies don't do mates rates
How do you know they don't? Have you seen the normal cost of Government contracts? Remember £70 to change a light bulb, £250 to change a padlock and other nonsense in the NHS?

And still no answer on how long it takes to put something fully out to tender in the middle of a pandemic?

deadslow

8,000 posts

223 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
Tuna said:
deadslow said:
pity Tory cronies don't do mates rates
How do you know they don't? Have you seen the normal cost of Government contracts? Remember £70 to change a light bulb, £250 to change a padlock and other nonsense in the NHS?

And still no answer on how long it takes to put something fully out to tender in the middle of a pandemic?
nah, Tory ministers do mates rates, dontchknow hehe

Vanden Saab

14,084 posts

74 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
s2art said:
Starfighter said:
That isn’t new.

My son just completed an MSc in Physics and shared the first year classes with Math students. They started with classes covering the full A level topics to get everyone at the same level and using the same logic / methods.

Come to think of it, I had the same doing Engineering in the late 80s.
The rot had already set in by the late 80's. I still socialise occasionally with my old A level math teacher, he agrees that a lot of stuff got dumbed down when they changed the curriculum and criteria in the 70's. In his day, first you got your degree in maths (or whatever) then you did teacher training. Then, as he put it, someone waved a magic wand and removed the requirement to do a subject degree first. Just teachers training college was enough. The grammar school I went to insisted that their teachers had a suitable (degree level) qualification in the subject they taught.

yes I had the misfortune to do SMP maths at school and myself and three others had to swot evenings and weekends for about 6 months to learn proper maths for my HNC course... 40 years on it still annoys me biglaugh

s2art

18,937 posts

253 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
Vanden Saab said:
s2art said:
Starfighter said:
That isn’t new.

My son just completed an MSc in Physics and shared the first year classes with Math students. They started with classes covering the full A level topics to get everyone at the same level and using the same logic / methods.

Come to think of it, I had the same doing Engineering in the late 80s.
The rot had already set in by the late 80's. I still socialise occasionally with my old A level math teacher, he agrees that a lot of stuff got dumbed down when they changed the curriculum and criteria in the 70's. In his day, first you got your degree in maths (or whatever) then you did teacher training. Then, as he put it, someone waved a magic wand and removed the requirement to do a subject degree first. Just teachers training college was enough. The grammar school I went to insisted that their teachers had a suitable (degree level) qualification in the subject they taught.

yes I had the misfortune to do SMP maths at school and myself and three others had to swot evenings and weekends for about 6 months to learn proper maths for my HNC course... 40 years on it still annoys me biglaugh
Similar to me then, but fortunately I did my six form in Singapore where it was old skool. Quite a blow to being one of the best in my year to discover I was way behind those who had done their O levels in Singapore. Hell they even covered simple calculus at O level.

Jasandjules

69,892 posts

229 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
Tuna said:
And still no answer on how long it takes to put something fully out to tender in the middle of a pandemic?
That is irrelevant to the question of whether or not we should be allowing mates to profit from Taxpayers' money. In short, simple corruption. You may be happy with it, I am not.

biggbn

23,331 posts

220 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
Jasandjules said:
Tuna said:
And still no answer on how long it takes to put something fully out to tender in the middle of a pandemic?
That is irrelevant to the question of whether or not we should be allowing mates to profit from Taxpayers' money. In short, simple corruption. You may be happy with it, I am not.
I find it a difficult one. My knee jerk reaction is 'typical bloody politicians, feathering each others nests etc..etc..'.. But. And I concede a lot of 'ifs ' here immediately. If this needed expedited quickly. If the acquaintances have a solid track record and are trustworthy . If, all things considered they were the best for the job? What IF all those IFS are relevant. Better the devil you know?

Exaggerating a point to make a point, the binary opposite is to award a transport contract to the lowest bidder despite them having no modes of transport...but that would never happen, would it? smile

MarkwG

4,848 posts

189 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
Personally I thought Gove & Cummings were doing a great job. Reintroducing phonics, stiffening up exam requirements etc etc, but you are right the PM wimped out as the blob were kicking off. Not all teachers were in the blob though: https://capx.co/why-we-teachers-miss-michael-gove/
We have two children; one went through to university level prior to Goves changes, one after: the second had a significantly inferior educational experience to the first. Fortunately we were able to redress the balance, because we could see it coming, however not all were so lucky. Like a lot of his ilk, he conflates his personal experience with that available everywhere, & damaged the good schools whilst trying to sweep away the bad: all because he "doesn't trust experts". The man's a menace.
I think the quote was something like 'dont trust 'experts' who keep getting it wrong'. Which is just common sense. As I said not all teachers disagreed with Gove, and your problem may be one of the schools making, not Gove.
No - the school was & is very highly regarded with very good OFSTED scores, exam results & transfer to college & universities is well above the average. However, the teaching styles are now constrained by a system that suits a smaller group of pupils, rather than catering for a wide range of learning styles & curricula. The range & variety of subjects is similarly constrained. They've coped admirably, but they know they've lost more than they gained, & it wasn't what they needed or wanted. Both our boys did well; however the older one enjoyed his studies, because the school was empowered to let him. For the younger, school became a chore which he survived, much like I did. So Gove turned the clock back to the 1970s, to match his time at school. I wanted my boys prepared for the new millennium, not the old one.
Then whats your response to

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnew...
I don't subscribe, so can only see the headline, but poor journalism making a mountain out of a molehill would be my interpretation. Universities take students from any number of different backgrounds, different exam boards & different countries, so establishing what the baseline is, & adding in learning to fill any gaps makes perfect sense to me. My company does similar with new staff, it's called induction training. Why it's beyond the whit of the Telegraph to understand that, well, who knows, but then newspaper journalists don't get paid for accuracy, sadly.

Tuna

19,930 posts

284 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
Jasandjules said:
That is irrelevant to the question of whether or not we should be allowing mates to profit from Taxpayers' money. In short, simple corruption. You may be happy with it, I am not.
That is a nonsense. Assigning a contract will always allow companies to profit from Taxpayers' money - that's how government contracts work. The fact that you know someone ("mates" - how derogative) does not change the fact, and does not materially change whether it's appropriate to award a contract in itself.

If you have evidence that the contract was disproportionate for the work being carried out, then yes, there are bigger issues. If the tender process was unnecessarily circumvented, that is also a problem. Let's see some clear evidence on this and I'll be happy to condemn the process. Carefully worded articles from the Guardian are not really a standard of evidence I'm happy with.

s2art

18,937 posts

253 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
Personally I thought Gove & Cummings were doing a great job. Reintroducing phonics, stiffening up exam requirements etc etc, but you are right the PM wimped out as the blob were kicking off. Not all teachers were in the blob though: https://capx.co/why-we-teachers-miss-michael-gove/
We have two children; one went through to university level prior to Goves changes, one after: the second had a significantly inferior educational experience to the first. Fortunately we were able to redress the balance, because we could see it coming, however not all were so lucky. Like a lot of his ilk, he conflates his personal experience with that available everywhere, & damaged the good schools whilst trying to sweep away the bad: all because he "doesn't trust experts". The man's a menace.
I think the quote was something like 'dont trust 'experts' who keep getting it wrong'. Which is just common sense. As I said not all teachers disagreed with Gove, and your problem may be one of the schools making, not Gove.
No - the school was & is very highly regarded with very good OFSTED scores, exam results & transfer to college & universities is well above the average. However, the teaching styles are now constrained by a system that suits a smaller group of pupils, rather than catering for a wide range of learning styles & curricula. The range & variety of subjects is similarly constrained. They've coped admirably, but they know they've lost more than they gained, & it wasn't what they needed or wanted. Both our boys did well; however the older one enjoyed his studies, because the school was empowered to let him. For the younger, school became a chore which he survived, much like I did. So Gove turned the clock back to the 1970s, to match his time at school. I wanted my boys prepared for the new millennium, not the old one.
Then whats your response to

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnew...
I don't subscribe, so can only see the headline, but poor journalism making a mountain out of a molehill would be my interpretation. Universities take students from any number of different backgrounds, different exam boards & different countries, so establishing what the baseline is, & adding in learning to fill any gaps makes perfect sense to me. My company does similar with new staff, it's called induction training. Why it's beyond the whit of the Telegraph to understand that, well, who knows, but then newspaper journalists don't get paid for accuracy, sadly.
Try again. Works for me and I dont subscribe either. Its from a few years ago before you had to subscibe.

Here is a partial quote.
Lord Willis said: "When you have got the Vice Chancellor of Cambridge saying we have got young, bright, A* students coming in and we have to do remedial maths to get them to engage with engineering and physics, there is something seriously wrong with the system.

Edited by s2art on Saturday 11th July 13:55

MarkwG

4,848 posts

189 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
Personally I thought Gove & Cummings were doing a great job. Reintroducing phonics, stiffening up exam requirements etc etc, but you are right the PM wimped out as the blob were kicking off. Not all teachers were in the blob though: https://capx.co/why-we-teachers-miss-michael-gove/
We have two children; one went through to university level prior to Goves changes, one after: the second had a significantly inferior educational experience to the first. Fortunately we were able to redress the balance, because we could see it coming, however not all were so lucky. Like a lot of his ilk, he conflates his personal experience with that available everywhere, & damaged the good schools whilst trying to sweep away the bad: all because he "doesn't trust experts". The man's a menace.
I think the quote was something like 'dont trust 'experts' who keep getting it wrong'. Which is just common sense. As I said not all teachers disagreed with Gove, and your problem may be one of the schools making, not Gove.
No - the school was & is very highly regarded with very good OFSTED scores, exam results & transfer to college & universities is well above the average. However, the teaching styles are now constrained by a system that suits a smaller group of pupils, rather than catering for a wide range of learning styles & curricula. The range & variety of subjects is similarly constrained. They've coped admirably, but they know they've lost more than they gained, & it wasn't what they needed or wanted. Both our boys did well; however the older one enjoyed his studies, because the school was empowered to let him. For the younger, school became a chore which he survived, much like I did. So Gove turned the clock back to the 1970s, to match his time at school. I wanted my boys prepared for the new millennium, not the old one.
Then whats your response to

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnew...
I don't subscribe, so can only see the headline, but poor journalism making a mountain out of a molehill would be my interpretation. Universities take students from any number of different backgrounds, different exam boards & different countries, so establishing what the baseline is, & adding in learning to fill any gaps makes perfect sense to me. My company does similar with new staff, it's called induction training. Why it's beyond the whit of the Telegraph to understand that, well, who knows, but then newspaper journalists don't get paid for accuracy, sadly.
Try again. Works for me and I dont subscribe either. Its from a few years ago before you had to subscibe.

Here is a partial quote.
Lord Willis said: "When you have got the Vice Chancellor of Cambridge saying we have got young, bright, A* students coming in and we have to do remedial maths to get them to engage with engineering and physics, there is something seriously wrong with the system.

Edited by s2art on Saturday 11th July 13:55
Nope, comes up with a free trial subs box, blocking the page. There have been 346 Vice Chancellors of Cambridge, which one is he quoting? What does he define as "remedial maths"? One quote doesn't make for very good policy decisions, in my experience.

anonymous-user

54 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
Tuna said:
deadslow said:
pity Tory cronies don't do mates rates
How do you know they don't? Have you seen the normal cost of Government contracts? Remember £70 to change a light bulb, £250 to change a padlock and other nonsense in the NHS?

And still no answer on how long it takes to put something fully out to tender in the middle of a pandemic?
From tender notice to contract award would be about 6 weeks. But that’s only one issue here, what about all the other companies with very similar abilities who weren’t given the opportunity.

It’s one thing to award a contract to a firm you have personal connections with, but that contract doesn’t require a particularly niche skill set and many research companies in the U.K. could deliver it, unless of course, the objective is to deliver the “right answer” in which case, best go with the people who will deliver that answer....

s2art

18,937 posts

253 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
Personally I thought Gove & Cummings were doing a great job. Reintroducing phonics, stiffening up exam requirements etc etc, but you are right the PM wimped out as the blob were kicking off. Not all teachers were in the blob though: https://capx.co/why-we-teachers-miss-michael-gove/
We have two children; one went through to university level prior to Goves changes, one after: the second had a significantly inferior educational experience to the first. Fortunately we were able to redress the balance, because we could see it coming, however not all were so lucky. Like a lot of his ilk, he conflates his personal experience with that available everywhere, & damaged the good schools whilst trying to sweep away the bad: all because he "doesn't trust experts". The man's a menace.
I think the quote was something like 'dont trust 'experts' who keep getting it wrong'. Which is just common sense. As I said not all teachers disagreed with Gove, and your problem may be one of the schools making, not Gove.
No - the school was & is very highly regarded with very good OFSTED scores, exam results & transfer to college & universities is well above the average. However, the teaching styles are now constrained by a system that suits a smaller group of pupils, rather than catering for a wide range of learning styles & curricula. The range & variety of subjects is similarly constrained. They've coped admirably, but they know they've lost more than they gained, & it wasn't what they needed or wanted. Both our boys did well; however the older one enjoyed his studies, because the school was empowered to let him. For the younger, school became a chore which he survived, much like I did. So Gove turned the clock back to the 1970s, to match his time at school. I wanted my boys prepared for the new millennium, not the old one.
Then whats your response to

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnew...
I don't subscribe, so can only see the headline, but poor journalism making a mountain out of a molehill would be my interpretation. Universities take students from any number of different backgrounds, different exam boards & different countries, so establishing what the baseline is, & adding in learning to fill any gaps makes perfect sense to me. My company does similar with new staff, it's called induction training. Why it's beyond the whit of the Telegraph to understand that, well, who knows, but then newspaper journalists don't get paid for accuracy, sadly.
Try again. Works for me and I dont subscribe either. Its from a few years ago before you had to subscibe.

Here is a partial quote.
Lord Willis said: "When you have got the Vice Chancellor of Cambridge saying we have got young, bright, A* students coming in and we have to do remedial maths to get them to engage with engineering and physics, there is something seriously wrong with the system.

Edited by s2art on Saturday 11th July 13:55
Nope, comes up with a free trial subs box, blocking the page. There have been 346 Vice Chancellors of Cambridge, which one is he quoting? What does he define as "remedial maths"? One quote doesn't make for very good policy decisions, in my experience.
In their evidence to the committee, Vice Chancellors including Prof Sir Leszek Borysiewicz of Cambridge reported that many maths and science students had to be given "remedial" classes upon arrival at university.

Related Articles
Make Britain Count: Multiply those maths qualifications 30 Apr 2012
Look, listen, learn - and forget? 11 Jun 2012
Lord Willis of Knaresborough, chairman of the Lords science and technology select committee which commissioned the report, said he was "absolutely gobsmacked" by the figures.

There were others. But the point is is didnt used to be true. And indeed students from places like Hong Kong and Singapore didnt need it.

anonymous-user

54 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
Personally I thought Gove & Cummings were doing a great job. Reintroducing phonics, stiffening up exam requirements etc etc, but you are right the PM wimped out as the blob were kicking off. Not all teachers were in the blob though: https://capx.co/why-we-teachers-miss-michael-gove/
We have two children; one went through to university level prior to Goves changes, one after: the second had a significantly inferior educational experience to the first. Fortunately we were able to redress the balance, because we could see it coming, however not all were so lucky. Like a lot of his ilk, he conflates his personal experience with that available everywhere, & damaged the good schools whilst trying to sweep away the bad: all because he "doesn't trust experts". The man's a menace.
I think the quote was something like 'dont trust 'experts' who keep getting it wrong'. Which is just common sense. As I said not all teachers disagreed with Gove, and your problem may be one of the schools making, not Gove.
No - the school was & is very highly regarded with very good OFSTED scores, exam results & transfer to college & universities is well above the average. However, the teaching styles are now constrained by a system that suits a smaller group of pupils, rather than catering for a wide range of learning styles & curricula. The range & variety of subjects is similarly constrained. They've coped admirably, but they know they've lost more than they gained, & it wasn't what they needed or wanted. Both our boys did well; however the older one enjoyed his studies, because the school was empowered to let him. For the younger, school became a chore which he survived, much like I did. So Gove turned the clock back to the 1970s, to match his time at school. I wanted my boys prepared for the new millennium, not the old one.
You must see the contradiction in your posts, despite the quite transparent spinning to cover it?

MarkwG

4,848 posts

189 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
Personally I thought Gove & Cummings were doing a great job. Reintroducing phonics, stiffening up exam requirements etc etc, but you are right the PM wimped out as the blob were kicking off. Not all teachers were in the blob though: https://capx.co/why-we-teachers-miss-michael-gove/
We have two children; one went through to university level prior to Goves changes, one after: the second had a significantly inferior educational experience to the first. Fortunately we were able to redress the balance, because we could see it coming, however not all were so lucky. Like a lot of his ilk, he conflates his personal experience with that available everywhere, & damaged the good schools whilst trying to sweep away the bad: all because he "doesn't trust experts". The man's a menace.
I think the quote was something like 'dont trust 'experts' who keep getting it wrong'. Which is just common sense. As I said not all teachers disagreed with Gove, and your problem may be one of the schools making, not Gove.
No - the school was & is very highly regarded with very good OFSTED scores, exam results & transfer to college & universities is well above the average. However, the teaching styles are now constrained by a system that suits a smaller group of pupils, rather than catering for a wide range of learning styles & curricula. The range & variety of subjects is similarly constrained. They've coped admirably, but they know they've lost more than they gained, & it wasn't what they needed or wanted. Both our boys did well; however the older one enjoyed his studies, because the school was empowered to let him. For the younger, school became a chore which he survived, much like I did. So Gove turned the clock back to the 1970s, to match his time at school. I wanted my boys prepared for the new millennium, not the old one.
Then whats your response to

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnew...
I don't subscribe, so can only see the headline, but poor journalism making a mountain out of a molehill would be my interpretation. Universities take students from any number of different backgrounds, different exam boards & different countries, so establishing what the baseline is, & adding in learning to fill any gaps makes perfect sense to me. My company does similar with new staff, it's called induction training. Why it's beyond the whit of the Telegraph to understand that, well, who knows, but then newspaper journalists don't get paid for accuracy, sadly.
Try again. Works for me and I dont subscribe either. Its from a few years ago before you had to subscibe.

Here is a partial quote.
Lord Willis said: "When you have got the Vice Chancellor of Cambridge saying we have got young, bright, A* students coming in and we have to do remedial maths to get them to engage with engineering and physics, there is something seriously wrong with the system.

Edited by s2art on Saturday 11th July 13:55
Nope, comes up with a free trial subs box, blocking the page. There have been 346 Vice Chancellors of Cambridge, which one is he quoting? What does he define as "remedial maths"? One quote doesn't make for very good policy decisions, in my experience.
In their evidence to the committee, Vice Chancellors including Prof Sir Leszek Borysiewicz of Cambridge reported that many maths and science students had to be given "remedial" classes upon arrival at university.

Related Articles
Make Britain Count: Multiply those maths qualifications 30 Apr 2012
Look, listen, learn - and forget? 11 Jun 2012
Lord Willis of Knaresborough, chairman of the Lords science and technology select committee which commissioned the report, said he was "absolutely gobsmacked" by the figures.

There were others. But the point is is didnt used to be true. And indeed students from places like Hong Kong and Singapore didnt need it.
I might wonder why they don't start by improving their assessment tests, then - they spend enough time & energy on them - why are students who don't make the grade getting through, if their maths is so dreadful? Surely it would be better to weed out the candidates that don't meet their requirements, & be more efficient too. The education system of the whole country isn't targeted to just one group of universities, & neither should it be, far more students go elsewhere for their education, or join the work force, than go anywhere near Cambridge. It certainly the case that those kind of complaints go back decades, & echo the same in all branches of training & learning - blaming the source material rather than addressing internal failings is part of the human condition, it seems, as is chucking the baby out with the bath water.

s2art

18,937 posts

253 months

Saturday 11th July 2020
quotequote all
MarkwG said:
I might wonder why they don't start by improving their assessment tests, then - they spend enough time & energy on them - why are students who don't make the grade getting through, if their maths is so dreadful? Surely it would be better to weed out the candidates that don't meet their requirements, & be more efficient too. The education system of the whole country isn't targeted to just one group of universities, & neither should it be, far more students go elsewhere for their education, or join the work force, than go anywhere near Cambridge. It certainly the case that those kind of complaints go back decades, & echo the same in all branches of training & learning - blaming the source material rather than addressing internal failings is part of the human condition, it seems, as is chucking the baby out with the bath water.
The problem is that for years A level results were a pretty good measure of knowledge and ability. Places like Oxbridge also did interviews (as did others). That measure has been lost.probably a combination of dumbing down for various reasons, including exam board competition and poor curricular for STEM subjects. As a matter of interest, my father (he taught maths) dug out a 1932 maths O level paper (or its equivalent). I would have passed it fairly easily but I would bet that many of my compatriots who passed when we did it would have failed it, mainly by running out of time. One question intrigued me because the answers were multiples of 252. Took a few seconds before the penny dropped (clue).

andy_s

19,400 posts

259 months

Sunday 12th July 2020
quotequote all
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
MarkwG said:
s2art said:
Personally I thought Gove & Cummings were doing a great job. Reintroducing phonics, stiffening up exam requirements etc etc, but you are right the PM wimped out as the blob were kicking off. Not all teachers were in the blob though: https://capx.co/why-we-teachers-miss-michael-gove/
We have two children; one went through to university level prior to Goves changes, one after: the second had a significantly inferior educational experience to the first. Fortunately we were able to redress the balance, because we could see it coming, however not all were so lucky. Like a lot of his ilk, he conflates his personal experience with that available everywhere, & damaged the good schools whilst trying to sweep away the bad: all because he "doesn't trust experts". The man's a menace.
I think the quote was something like 'dont trust 'experts' who keep getting it wrong'. Which is just common sense. As I said not all teachers disagreed with Gove, and your problem may be one of the schools making, not Gove.
No - the school was & is very highly regarded with very good OFSTED scores, exam results & transfer to college & universities is well above the average. However, the teaching styles are now constrained by a system that suits a smaller group of pupils, rather than catering for a wide range of learning styles & curricula. The range & variety of subjects is similarly constrained. They've coped admirably, but they know they've lost more than they gained, & it wasn't what they needed or wanted. Both our boys did well; however the older one enjoyed his studies, because the school was empowered to let him. For the younger, school became a chore which he survived, much like I did. So Gove turned the clock back to the 1970s, to match his time at school. I wanted my boys prepared for the new millennium, not the old one.
Then whats your response to

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnew...
I don't subscribe, so can only see the headline, but poor journalism making a mountain out of a molehill would be my interpretation. Universities take students from any number of different backgrounds, different exam boards & different countries, so establishing what the baseline is, & adding in learning to fill any gaps makes perfect sense to me. My company does similar with new staff, it's called induction training. Why it's beyond the whit of the Telegraph to understand that, well, who knows, but then newspaper journalists don't get paid for accuracy, sadly.
Try again. Works for me and I dont subscribe either. Its from a few years ago before you had to subscibe.

Here is a partial quote.
Lord Willis said: "When you have got the Vice Chancellor of Cambridge saying we have got young, bright, A* students coming in and we have to do remedial maths to get them to engage with engineering and physics, there is something seriously wrong with the system.

Edited by s2art on Saturday 11th July 13:55
Nope, comes up with a free trial subs box, blocking the page. There have been 346 Vice Chancellors of Cambridge, which one is he quoting? What does he define as "remedial maths"? One quote doesn't make for very good policy decisions, in my experience.
In their evidence to the committee, Vice Chancellors including Prof Sir Leszek Borysiewicz of Cambridge reported that many maths and science students had to be given "remedial" classes upon arrival at university.

Related Articles
Make Britain Count: Multiply those maths qualifications 30 Apr 2012
Look, listen, learn - and forget? 11 Jun 2012
Lord Willis of Knaresborough, chairman of the Lords science and technology select committee which commissioned the report, said he was "absolutely gobsmacked" by the figures.

There were others. But the point is is didnt used to be true. And indeed students from places like Hong Kong and Singapore didnt need it.
I might wonder why they don't start by improving their assessment tests, then - they spend enough time & energy on them - why are students who don't make the grade getting through, if their maths is so dreadful? Surely it would be better to weed out the candidates that don't meet their requirements, & be more efficient too. The education system of the whole country isn't targeted to just one group of universities, & neither should it be, far more students go elsewhere for their education, or join the work force, than go anywhere near Cambridge. It certainly the case that those kind of complaints go back decades, & echo the same in all branches of training & learning - blaming the source material rather than addressing internal failings is part of the human condition, it seems, as is chucking the baby out with the bath water.
“School’s not for smart people Jerry”. Rick Sanchez 2018.

Gove’s ‘Expert’ quote is wonderfully out of context, as always. See Tetlock et al for experts vs lay people...

s2art

18,937 posts

253 months

Monday 13th July 2020
quotequote all
Seems relevant, the French have caught our disease.

https://conservativewoman.co.uk/macrons-mad-assess...

Zirconia

36,010 posts

284 months

Thursday 16th July 2020
quotequote all
Cant say I will be doing any home kit tests any time soon.

https://twitter.com/StefSimanowitz/status/12822885...

Palantir involved with the US HHS Protect Now at the moment.

BlackLabel

13,251 posts

123 months

Friday 13th November 2020
quotequote all
Going, going, gone.