Cummings and goings...
Discussion
Durzel said:
Cummings not doing himself any favours by withholding all this stuff from the committee, past the deadline, and then "leaking" it like it's some kind of serialised drama in the Mail on Sunday.
Obviously he's trying to maintain relevance now that he's outside of the inner circle, but it doesn't do his credibility an awful lot of good. It makes him look like a grubby opportunist.
I think it's a blinding tactic, allow your opposition to choose exactly what amount of rope to use to hang themselves with then pull the trapdoor.Obviously he's trying to maintain relevance now that he's outside of the inner circle, but it doesn't do his credibility an awful lot of good. It makes him look like a grubby opportunist.
biggbn said:
Durzel said:
Cummings not doing himself any favours by withholding all this stuff from the committee, past the deadline, and then "leaking" it like it's some kind of serialised drama in the Mail on Sunday.
Obviously he's trying to maintain relevance now that he's outside of the inner circle, but it doesn't do his credibility an awful lot of good. It makes him look like a grubby opportunist.
I think it's a blinding tactic, allow your opposition to choose exactly what amount of rope to use to hang themselves with then pull the trapdoor.Obviously he's trying to maintain relevance now that he's outside of the inner circle, but it doesn't do his credibility an awful lot of good. It makes him look like a grubby opportunist.
The only world in which what Cummings is leaking is earth shattering is one where the electorate doesn't vote in their naked self-interest, but actually votes based on the moral fibre of politicians, etc. There are places who will never not vote Conservative, no matter how deceitful Boris and co are.
633Squadron said:
Does anyone see him as employable?
Surely any future employer must be thinking -"When he leaves- how must s
t is he capable of stirring up?"
He’s probably great for certain specific purposes. Surely any future employer must be thinking -"When he leaves- how must s
t is he capable of stirring up?"Get him in to look at a problem, see what he thinks the issues are and what ideas he has to improve things . . . and then get rid of him and make some changes based on his recommendations but don’t have him involved anymore and pissing people off etc.
What he says about the issues with government are quite right and a lot of what he suggests makes sense. The problem is that he’s totally unsuitable to actually get people onside and make these changes without causing huge problems.
Many industries have these sorts who have great minds but are obviously lacking in other areas that maybe require more empathy or people skills etc.
You get them out of the box, ask their advice and then put them back in the box. That’s what they’re great for.
Watching the film the Queen 2006, it was interesting Blair mentioning coming to power, and taking back power from the establishment, the Tory party.
They ride roughshod over everything with impunity. I think Boris and and Boys are just reinforcing this stereotype that Cummings is just highlighting to thr world.
They ride roughshod over everything with impunity. I think Boris and and Boys are just reinforcing this stereotype that Cummings is just highlighting to thr world.
The Spruce Goose said:
Watching the film the Queen 2006, it was interesting Blair mentioning coming to power, and taking back power from the establishment, the Tory party.
They ride roughshod over everything with impunity. I think Boris and and Boys are just reinforcing this stereotype that Cummings is just highlighting to thr world.
And just look what Blair did with that power....They ride roughshod over everything with impunity. I think Boris and and Boys are just reinforcing this stereotype that Cummings is just highlighting to thr world.
El stovey said:
What he says about the issues with government are quite right and a lot of what he suggests makes sense. The problem is that he’s totally unsuitable to actually get people onside and make these changes without causing huge problems.
Many industries have these sorts who have great minds but are obviously lacking in other areas that maybe require more empathy or people skills etc.
I agree and why I admired him initially - but now he just comes across as a bitter loon.Many industries have these sorts who have great minds but are obviously lacking in other areas that maybe require more empathy or people skills etc.
Durzel said:
biggbn said:
Durzel said:
Cummings not doing himself any favours by withholding all this stuff from the committee, past the deadline, and then "leaking" it like it's some kind of serialised drama in the Mail on Sunday.
Obviously he's trying to maintain relevance now that he's outside of the inner circle, but it doesn't do his credibility an awful lot of good. It makes him look like a grubby opportunist.
I think it's a blinding tactic, allow your opposition to choose exactly what amount of rope to use to hang themselves with then pull the trapdoor.Obviously he's trying to maintain relevance now that he's outside of the inner circle, but it doesn't do his credibility an awful lot of good. It makes him look like a grubby opportunist.
The only world in which what Cummings is leaking is earth shattering is one where the electorate doesn't vote in their naked self-interest, but actually votes based on the moral fibre of politicians, etc. There are places who will never not vote Conservative, no matter how deceitful Boris and co are.
El stovey said:
633Squadron said:
Does anyone see him as employable?
Surely any future employer must be thinking -"When he leaves- how must st is he capable of stirring up?"
He’s probably great for certain specific purposes. Surely any future employer must be thinking -"When he leaves- how must s
t is he capable of stirring up?"Get him in to look at a problem, see what he thinks the issues are and what ideas he has to improve things . . . and then get rid of him and make some changes based on his recommendations but don’t have him involved anymore and pissing people off etc.
What he says about the issues with government are quite right and a lot of what he suggests makes sense. The problem is that he’s totally unsuitable to actually get people onside and make these changes without causing huge problems.
Many industries have these sorts who have great minds but are obviously lacking in other areas that maybe require more empathy or people skills etc.
You get them out of the box, ask their advice and then put them back in the box. That’s what they’re great for.
eliot said:
El stovey said:
What he says about the issues with government are quite right and a lot of what he suggests makes sense. The problem is that he’s totally unsuitable to actually get people onside and make these changes without causing huge problems.
Many industries have these sorts who have great minds but are obviously lacking in other areas that maybe require more empathy or people skills etc.
I agree and why I admired him initially - but now he just comes across as a bitter loon.Many industries have these sorts who have great minds but are obviously lacking in other areas that maybe require more empathy or people skills etc.
Cummings is just being Cummings.
The mistake was having him in a role that he’s obviously not suited to.
It’s like getting a big angry dog to protect your house. Sure it will work but what Boris did was involve it in tasks it wasn’t suited to like looking after his kids and then made things worse by continuing to provoke it.
A prime minister that’s dishonest and not into details and avoid scrutiny employs someone like Cummings known to be a wrecking ball and rubs people up the wrong way and then tells him all the secrets and then in the final act of this opera of incompetence and poor decision making . . . sacks him publicly due to his girlfriend not liking him and then the government start saying he’s a liar.
Hardly a big shock it’s gone wrong really.
saaby93 said:
It's intriguing how many different interpretations of this there are depending where posters sit on the political spectrum.
Isnt he someone you wouldnt invite round to dinner (let alone employ) as you'd never be sure what he would say afterwards
I’d possibly employ him in a short term consultation type role or in some limited role where he could be contained, like in the basement in some kind of superforcasting or ideas department.Isnt he someone you wouldnt invite round to dinner (let alone employ) as you'd never be sure what he would say afterwards
I certainly wouldn’t have him going around interacting with different departments and giving him free reign.
Seems to me he’s great at analysing things and coming up with solutions. Many organisations need people like that to come in with a fresh look and see where improvements can be made, people that see things differently and think differently.
Just recognise that they are different and don’t assume they’d be any good at something else.
Not that this came as a great surprise but Cummings has provided an insight into how dysfunctional Johnson and his chosen cabal really are.
The snips about how Johnson acts during important meetings (cracking jokes, not taking things seriously, ridiculous catchphrases "Forward to Victory" for example) all lead me to conclude that Johnson was provbably the worst choice to lead us through a pandemic.
As far as Cummings goes it seems that he could do anything he wanted (the Durham trip receiving unwavering support, for example) because he provided so much to Boris.
It seems that providing Carrie with a nasty nickname (which appears very apt) was a step too far though. Good to see Johnson has his priorities right (not).
The bloke is being led "round by his dick.
The snips about how Johnson acts during important meetings (cracking jokes, not taking things seriously, ridiculous catchphrases "Forward to Victory" for example) all lead me to conclude that Johnson was provbably the worst choice to lead us through a pandemic.
As far as Cummings goes it seems that he could do anything he wanted (the Durham trip receiving unwavering support, for example) because he provided so much to Boris.
It seems that providing Carrie with a nasty nickname (which appears very apt) was a step too far though. Good to see Johnson has his priorities right (not).
The bloke is being led "round by his dick.
Maximus Decimus Meridius said:
Not that this came as a great surprise but Cummings has provided an insight into how dysfunctional Johnson and his chosen cabal really are.
The snips about how Johnson acts during important meetings (cracking jokes, not taking things seriously, ridiculous catchphrases "Forward to Victory" for example) all lead me to conclude that Johnson was provbably the worst choice to lead us through a pandemic.
As far as Cummings goes it seems that he could do anything he wanted (the Durham trip receiving unwavering support, for example) because he provided so much to Boris.
It seems that providing Carrie with a nasty nickname (which appears very apt) was a step too far though. Good to see Johnson has his priorities right (not).
The bloke is being led "round by his dick.
Agreed.The snips about how Johnson acts during important meetings (cracking jokes, not taking things seriously, ridiculous catchphrases "Forward to Victory" for example) all lead me to conclude that Johnson was provbably the worst choice to lead us through a pandemic.
As far as Cummings goes it seems that he could do anything he wanted (the Durham trip receiving unwavering support, for example) because he provided so much to Boris.
It seems that providing Carrie with a nasty nickname (which appears very apt) was a step too far though. Good to see Johnson has his priorities right (not).
The bloke is being led "round by his dick.
Boris got him in to sort out what was dysfunctional about government and he’s ended up also showing us what’s dysfunctional about Boris.
JagLover said:
Murph7355 said:
I think this is spot on.
For an intelligent person, Cummings doesn't seem to be using this info wisely. I suspect part of the reason for this is him being complicit in any shenanigans.
It's a bit of a shame as I tend to agree with him that the whole mechanics of government (rather than Government) need a shake up. But he's lost the opportunity IMO. And in releasing snippets (quite clearly cut to adjust context) he'll miss his main target.
His main target seems to have become Hancock. He seems to have an obsessive hatred for him that is a bit odd. Hancock seems a weak, weaselly, sort of fellow who will no doubt be gone soon. You might pity him, or hold him in contempt, but he doesn't seem the sort to generate such an obsession. For an intelligent person, Cummings doesn't seem to be using this info wisely. I suspect part of the reason for this is him being complicit in any shenanigans.
It's a bit of a shame as I tend to agree with him that the whole mechanics of government (rather than Government) need a shake up. But he's lost the opportunity IMO. And in releasing snippets (quite clearly cut to adjust context) he'll miss his main target.
His dislike of Hancock seems to be coming from Hancock giving in to those mechanics, the way I'm reading the selective clips Cummings has posted.
I certainly wouldn't want any of the posters here remarking that this is "evidence" on any jury I was in front of! Appreciate I'm a stuck record, but context is key. And I am always very suspicious of clipped "evidence" such as this...my immediate thought is always "what aren't we being told". (The latest delays on restrictions easing being an "anti-Govt" case in point...why aren't absolute numbers being modelled being shown?? Etc).
Garvin said:
Cummings seems obsessed, nay infatuated, with Hancock to the point of being unhinged.
The more scorn Cummings pours on Hancock the least likely it is that Boris will dispense with Hancock's services. At the moment Hancock is the canon fodder soaking up the assault - with him gone Cumming's assault might well change focus onto Boris himself. Boris has, at last, found a useful role for Hancock
I also think it ends up focusing on an individual when the actual issue is more fundamental than that. It will change nothing.The more scorn Cummings pours on Hancock the least likely it is that Boris will dispense with Hancock's services. At the moment Hancock is the canon fodder soaking up the assault - with him gone Cumming's assault might well change focus onto Boris himself. Boris has, at last, found a useful role for Hancock
Durzel said:
Cummings not doing himself any favours by withholding all this stuff from the committee, past the deadline, and then "leaking" it like it's some kind of serialised drama in the Mail on Sunday.
Obviously he's trying to maintain relevance now that he's outside of the inner circle, but it doesn't do his credibility an awful lot of good. It makes him look like a grubby opportunist.
+1Obviously he's trying to maintain relevance now that he's outside of the inner circle, but it doesn't do his credibility an awful lot of good. It makes him look like a grubby opportunist.
633Squadron said:
Does anyone see him as employable?
Surely any future employer must be thinking -"When he leaves- how must st is he capable of stirring up?"
Cummings is operating in circles where these simply aren't considerations. A bit like some football managers - you get to a point where you are above the usual parameters mere mortals operate at.Surely any future employer must be thinking -"When he leaves- how must s
t is he capable of stirring up?"Maximus Decimus Meridius said:
Not that this came as a great surprise but Cummings has provided an insight into how dysfunctional Johnson and his chosen cabal really are.
The snips about how Johnson acts during important meetings (cracking jokes, not taking things seriously, ridiculous catchphrases "Forward to Victory" for example) all lead me to conclude that Johnson was provbably the worst choice to lead us through a pandemic.
As far as Cummings goes it seems that he could do anything he wanted (the Durham trip receiving unwavering support, for example) because he provided so much to Boris.
If youre trying to manage and you know that someone could be troublesome - isnt that how youd try to deal with it ? You butter them up to keep them onside despite theyve done something that appears daft ( although we now know the trip oop north included security considerations).The snips about how Johnson acts during important meetings (cracking jokes, not taking things seriously, ridiculous catchphrases "Forward to Victory" for example) all lead me to conclude that Johnson was provbably the worst choice to lead us through a pandemic.
As far as Cummings goes it seems that he could do anything he wanted (the Durham trip receiving unwavering support, for example) because he provided so much to Boris.
In some ways Johnson is trying to keep together a box of frogs in the circumstances where there is no right answer just a set of nearly good enough options.
saaby93 said:
Maximus Decimus Meridius said:
Not that this came as a great surprise but Cummings has provided an insight into how dysfunctional Johnson and his chosen cabal really are.
The snips about how Johnson acts during important meetings (cracking jokes, not taking things seriously, ridiculous catchphrases "Forward to Victory" for example) all lead me to conclude that Johnson was provbably the worst choice to lead us through a pandemic.
As far as Cummings goes it seems that he could do anything he wanted (the Durham trip receiving unwavering support, for example) because he provided so much to Boris.
If youre trying to manage and you know that someone could be troublesome - isnt that how youd try to deal with it ? You butter them up to keep them onside despite theyve done something that appears daft ( although we now know the trip oop north included security considerations).The snips about how Johnson acts during important meetings (cracking jokes, not taking things seriously, ridiculous catchphrases "Forward to Victory" for example) all lead me to conclude that Johnson was provbably the worst choice to lead us through a pandemic.
As far as Cummings goes it seems that he could do anything he wanted (the Durham trip receiving unwavering support, for example) because he provided so much to Boris.
In some ways Johnson is trying to keep together a box of frogs in the circumstances where there is no right answer just a set of nearly good enough options.
If that picture is true (and I believe Cummings' description has merit) then you can apply those same traits to managing people.
That adds up given that Cummings left abruptly and without warning. I doubt Johnson has many "plans" at all. What you see is what you get.
El stovey said:
Cummings is just being Cummings.
The mistake was having him in a role that he’s obviously not suited to.
Hmmm... an interesting perspective (and here, I'm really not trying to argue against you, just a different angle). The mistake was having him in a role that he’s obviously not suited to.
It feels to me more like Cummings *could* have been very effective, but Johnson (as the antithesis of Cummings 'data led' approach) was simply not willing/ready/able to make use of his talents. Now whether that was a function of Covid overtaking everything, or simply that Johnson is far too concerned with 'touchy feely' government to really back a more technical approach, I don't know, but much of Cummings approach is still percolating through government with various reviews and initiatives.
The recent Civil service reforms have been hardly remarked on given other distractions, but Gove's big announcement has Cummings all over it (ahem):
reforms said:
People
What was notable about Cummings during the Covid crisis was how little he was given reign to do exactly what he had been proposing - agile, data-led, evidence based decision making at speed, red-team/blue-team war cabinets and so on.- 50% of senior roles will be based outside capital by 2030
- Creation of a new physical training campus
- Bolster traditional writing skills, as well as understanding statistical concepts and developing expertise in digital, data, science and commercial delivery
- They will use outside secondees to “challenge conventional thinking”, and require “radical alternatives” to police options to be presented
- Reduce the number of people needed to make decisions
- Introduce pay-by-results for senior civil servants, linking rewards and bonuses to meeting targets and demonstrating wider performance
- When recruiting they will champion diversity of opinion as well as backgrounds.
- Improve department accountability, setting up a new Evaluation Task Force “to act as an in-house scrutineer” of both value for money and effectiveness against published ambitions
- Improve cross-government functions
- Draw on Covid to “put data at the heart of our decision-making”
- Expect officials to ask “how can science help” when approaching problems
- Replace legacy IT systems
- Improve collaboration between ministers and officials
- Improve clarity of roles, responsibilities and accountability of ministers and senior officials
- Bolster relations and collaboration between leaders from sectors outside the civil service
- New “extraordinary Cabinet meetings” will be held once a year, bringing together the Cabinet and departmental Permanent Secretaries to review progress
Edited by Tuna on Thursday 17th June 16:42
Cummings currently destroying Dan Hodges of the mail on Sunday on twitter.
https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/14057999104...
https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/14057999104...
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