Cummings and goings...
Discussion
over_the_hill said:
I suspect this is part of the advance PR for "The Book" but even if it is a rip-roaring success it will not be enough
to keep financing his lifestyle in a nice house in a nice part of London for more than a few years.
to keep financing his lifestyle in a nice house in a nice part of London for more than a few years.
He is married to a daughter of a Baronet, who is also a successful Journo. I'm sure they are fine for money- father in law owns castles.He will also be in demand internationally.
rjfp1962 said:
In Cummings I see a bitter ex-employee making allegations against a serial liar, the PM - Who knows what to believe......?!
In Cummings I see a bitter ex-employee and known liar making allegations against a serial liar, the PM. There's no point paying attention to either of them as neither has any credibility in terms of their honesty.Tuna said:
I edited to add society as a whole to the balance. How many Cancer treatments should we cancel in order to preserve Nana's life?
A nice Stongle-esque stealth edit there Choons...!!! 
I think the statement I identified from the NICE article sums it up perfectly - "NICE does not accept or reject interventions on cost-effectiveness grounds alone."
Additionally, your question differs from the alleged Bozza text as Bozza's text was inclusive all of our precious Nana's and Grampy's over 80 whereas your question is the singular Nana, but I think you know that!
Unknown_User said:
Tuna said:
I edited to add society as a whole to the balance. How many Cancer treatments should we cancel in order to preserve Nana's life?
A nice Stongle-esque stealth edit there Choons...!!! I think the statement I identified from the NICE article sums it up perfectly - "NICE does not accept or reject interventions on cost-effectiveness grounds alone."
Additionally, your question differs from the alleged Bozza text as Bozza's text was inclusive all of our precious Nana's and Grampy's over 80 whereas your question is the singular Nana, but I think you know that!
Pneumonia the same.
Some have said theyd have preferred the youngsters get the Vax first for sustainability - jobs = money to look after the ill/elderly
Does anyone here think of themselves as precious?
Unknown_User said:
Tuna said:
I edited to add society as a whole to the balance. How many Cancer treatments should we cancel in order to preserve Nana's life?
A nice Stongle-esque stealth edit there Choons...!!! Unknown_User said:
I think the statement I identified from the NICE article sums it up perfectly - "NICE does not accept or reject interventions on cost-effectiveness grounds alone."
Additionally, your question differs from the alleged Bozza text as Bozza's text was inclusive all of our precious Nana's and Grampy's over 80 whereas your question is the singular Nana, but I think you know that!
Uh? The point I'm making is that the decision to Lockdown to preserve all those Nanas is not a 'cost free' equation (in the sense of social cost as well as economic). You are behaving as though it is - but clearly Lockdown damaged people's education, access to wider health services, general mental health, people's livelihoods and much else besides.Additionally, your question differs from the alleged Bozza text as Bozza's text was inclusive all of our precious Nana's and Grampy's over 80 whereas your question is the singular Nana, but I think you know that!
You're now squirming like a squirmy thing to avoid admitting this is the case. This was not simply a question of deciding to "slaughter" the over 80's on a whim, however hard you might try to pretend it was.
saaby93 said:
Many of them realise theyre not precious and if they have uncomfortable underlying conditions the virus may help.
Pneumonia the same.
Some have said theyd have preferred the youngsters get the Vax first for sustainability - jobs = money to look after the ill/elderly
Does anyone here think of themselves as precious?
Well that's tripe: if you really think dying of Covid 19 is preferable to an "uncomfortable underlying condition" you've really not understood how serious Covid 19 can be. The point about vaccinating the younger population first is about protecting those who are going out into the community & so are at increased risk, whereas those in care homes or at home are easier to protect by virtue of their situation - not saying "vaccinate the young ones, we're all happy to die".Pneumonia the same.
Some have said theyd have preferred the youngsters get the Vax first for sustainability - jobs = money to look after the ill/elderly
Does anyone here think of themselves as precious?
Tuna said:
Uh? The point I'm making is that the decision to Lockdown to preserve all those Nanas is not a 'cost free' equation (in the sense of social cost as well as economic). You are behaving as though it is - but clearly Lockdown damaged people's education, access to wider health services, general mental health, people's livelihoods and much else besides.
You're now squirming like a squirmy thing to avoid admitting this is the case. This was not simply a question of deciding to "slaughter" the over 80's on a whim, however hard you might try to pretend it was.
I'm not behaving that it's "not a 'cost-free' equation" and nor am I squirming. Jaggy made a comment that included cost references and I asked him to clarify his comment! You're now squirming like a squirmy thing to avoid admitting this is the case. This was not simply a question of deciding to "slaughter" the over 80's on a whim, however hard you might try to pretend it was.
The entire lockdown/Covid question is very complex and nuanced, everyone will have their own experiences and opinions. I tend to keep out of Covid discussions if I'm honest.
Dom Cummings is currently the most successful, well paid and sought after political “wonk” in Europe. To the best of my knowledge that statement could be expanded to include the rest of the world, outside of America, with the arguable exception of Lynton Crosby.
This current “role” (for want of a better phrase) has all the hallmarks of a Cummings campaign. It’s almost political asymmetrical warfare, in that there is no blowback on him. He can fire shots as and when he wants, how he wants. He’s removed 1 target in 4 weeks. Since he appeared before the committees, he’s provided the single most effective opposition to the PM in the country! Boris hasn’t got an answer to him, except hope he is ignored. Which is a bloody stupid strategy to the bloke you know damn well is close to a genius at this stuff.
Which brings us back to Gove. Waiting. Hovering. Gove has always been the bloke he is closest to in the Party, the guy who had given him the most free reign. For one thing Gove also wants to do a bit of govt deconstruction. I keep saying Bojo will be gone within the yr and ppl keep dismissing the idea. If Dom is effectively “ on mission “ to bring Bojo down…he will get his man.
It’s Gove’s perfect time to pull this. He keeps his hands clean, he could almost be welcomed into 10 with open arms. I don’t like Gove precisely because I understand just how good an operator he is.
This current “role” (for want of a better phrase) has all the hallmarks of a Cummings campaign. It’s almost political asymmetrical warfare, in that there is no blowback on him. He can fire shots as and when he wants, how he wants. He’s removed 1 target in 4 weeks. Since he appeared before the committees, he’s provided the single most effective opposition to the PM in the country! Boris hasn’t got an answer to him, except hope he is ignored. Which is a bloody stupid strategy to the bloke you know damn well is close to a genius at this stuff.
Which brings us back to Gove. Waiting. Hovering. Gove has always been the bloke he is closest to in the Party, the guy who had given him the most free reign. For one thing Gove also wants to do a bit of govt deconstruction. I keep saying Bojo will be gone within the yr and ppl keep dismissing the idea. If Dom is effectively “ on mission “ to bring Bojo down…he will get his man.
It’s Gove’s perfect time to pull this. He keeps his hands clean, he could almost be welcomed into 10 with open arms. I don’t like Gove precisely because I understand just how good an operator he is.
MarkwG said:
Well that's tripe: if you really think dying of Covid 19 is preferable to an "uncomfortable underlying condition" you've really not understood how serious Covid 19 can be. .
Pneumonia has long been called "the old man's friend" because it is a better way to die than most of the alternatives once you reach extreme old age. Not to get too morbid about it but would you prefer being taken off by cancer?, or ending your days on a dementia ward?.Life has a 100% mortality and something will get you eventually.
DeejRC said:
Dom Cummings is currently the most successful, well paid and sought after political “wonk” in Europe. To the best of my knowledge that statement could be expanded to include the rest of the world, outside of America, with the arguable exception of Lynton Crosby.
This current “role” (for want of a better phrase) has all the hallmarks of a Cummings campaign. It’s almost political asymmetrical warfare, in that there is no blowback on him. He can fire shots as and when he wants, how he wants. He’s removed 1 target in 4 weeks. Since he appeared before the committees, he’s provided the single most effective opposition to the PM in the country! Boris hasn’t got an answer to him, except hope he is ignored. Which is a bloody stupid strategy to the bloke you know damn well is close to a genius at this stuff.
Which brings us back to Gove. Waiting. Hovering. Gove has always been the bloke he is closest to in the Party, the guy who had given him the most free reign. For one thing Gove also wants to do a bit of govt deconstruction. I keep saying Bojo will be gone within the yr and ppl keep dismissing the idea. If Dom is effectively “ on mission “ to bring Bojo down…he will get his man.
It’s Gove’s perfect time to pull this. He keeps his hands clean, he could almost be welcomed into 10 with open arms. I don’t like Gove precisely because I understand just how good an operator he is.
Agreed on the DomCum sentiment but I have to disagree with regards to Gove. I'm not sure Bozza is going anywhere just yet. He and his Party crave power and midway through his term the polls are on his side.This current “role” (for want of a better phrase) has all the hallmarks of a Cummings campaign. It’s almost political asymmetrical warfare, in that there is no blowback on him. He can fire shots as and when he wants, how he wants. He’s removed 1 target in 4 weeks. Since he appeared before the committees, he’s provided the single most effective opposition to the PM in the country! Boris hasn’t got an answer to him, except hope he is ignored. Which is a bloody stupid strategy to the bloke you know damn well is close to a genius at this stuff.
Which brings us back to Gove. Waiting. Hovering. Gove has always been the bloke he is closest to in the Party, the guy who had given him the most free reign. For one thing Gove also wants to do a bit of govt deconstruction. I keep saying Bojo will be gone within the yr and ppl keep dismissing the idea. If Dom is effectively “ on mission “ to bring Bojo down…he will get his man.
It’s Gove’s perfect time to pull this. He keeps his hands clean, he could almost be welcomed into 10 with open arms. I don’t like Gove precisely because I understand just how good an operator he is.
MarkwG said:
Well that's tripe: if you really think dying of Covid 19 is preferable to an "uncomfortable underlying condition" you've really not understood how serious Covid 19 can be. The point about vaccinating the younger population first is about protecting those who are going out into the community & so are at increased risk, whereas those in care homes or at home are easier to protect by virtue of their situation - not saying "vaccinate the young ones, we're all happy to die".
Getting the message wrong wont help 
It's more like 'vaccinate the young ones first, they're needed for the future, we've had a good innings'
However Government decided to go the other way - Does anyone really blame government for setting out that pecking order list?
DeejRC said:
Which brings us back to Gove. Waiting. Hovering. Gove has always been the bloke he is closest to in the Party, the guy who had given him the most free reign. For one thing Gove also wants to do a bit of govt deconstruction. I keep saying Bojo will be gone within the yr and ppl keep dismissing the idea. If Dom is effectively “ on mission “ to bring Bojo down…he will get his man.
Hmmm... I think Cummings has severely over-estimated his own importance, rather encouraged by the media attention he's getting now he's laying into the government.The problem is that whilst he has some interesting political and organisational ideas, he's got quite a track record of failing to implement them. There's a limit to how long his employers will be willing to watch him break things whilst promising to make them better. I very much doubt Gove would want to bring him back into the fold in any serious position within the government.
Gove himself I suspect is happy to let the current parliamentary term play out. There is absolutely no benefit to being the one holding the can at the moment, and the downsides are only going to get worse over the next year or two. I don't think he's so power hungry as to want to unseat Boris - but it wouldn't be so surprising if there was a leadership bid when it comes to who stands at the next general election. There again, it's possible that things will still be looking dodgy, so why rush to put yourself in the line of fire?
APontus said:
Gove has too many skeletons/rent boys in the closet. He's just the Tory Mandelson.
Hard to disagree with that tbh.He doesn't seem even particularly accomplished as a schemer, and he doesn't have Boris's charisma (I am defacing the very meaning of the word by using it, but Boris has his fans and it would be stupid to deny they exist). He's not even a useful idiot. What exactly is Gove for?
JagLover said:
MarkwG said:
Well that's tripe: if you really think dying of Covid 19 is preferable to an "uncomfortable underlying condition" you've really not understood how serious Covid 19 can be. .
Pneumonia has long been called "the old man's friend" because it is a better way to die than most of the alternatives once you reach extreme old age. Not to get too morbid about it but would you prefer being taken off by cancer?, or ending your days on a dementia ward?.Life has a 100% mortality and something will get you eventually.
JagLover said:
Pneumonia has long been called "the old man's friend" because it is a better way to die than most of the alternatives once you reach extreme old age. Not to get too morbid about it but would you prefer being taken off by cancer?, or ending your days on a dementia ward?.
Life has a 100% mortality and something will get you eventually.
Watched my mum die of COPD pneumonia over two weeks. fLife has a 100% mortality and something will get you eventually.
k that for a friend. dai1983 said:
JagLover said:
Pneumonia has long been called "the old man's friend" because it is a better way to die than most of the alternatives once you reach extreme old age. Not to get too morbid about it but would you prefer being taken off by cancer?, or ending your days on a dementia ward?.
Life has a 100% mortality and something will get you eventually.
Watched my mum die of COPD pneumonia over two weeks. fLife has a 100% mortality and something will get you eventually.
k that for a friend. But as said earlier many elderly have said theyd prefer the young to have the vaccine first. That question is now long behind us but was a difficult one
Seems like Cummings is trying to hasten an inquiry and knows Boris will keep delaying it, he’s appealing to MPs to “take the matters into their own hands” and push for an inquiry.
I guess that’s the way Cummings thinks Boris will A) Have to face scrutiny and B) Maybe end up getting replaced.
I guess that’s the way Cummings thinks Boris will A) Have to face scrutiny and B) Maybe end up getting replaced.
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