Boris Johnson- Prime Minister (Vol. 4)

[amusingduck]

markyb_lcy said:

Stay in Bed Instead said:

Unknown_User said:

Thank you for posting the above transcript.

For me and most other interested parties, it is crystal clear what our Gov is doing here. Those posters that somehow refuse to acknowledge or accept the Gov's shenanigans here are wilfully condoning a Gov that is guilty of lying and a duplicitous modus operandi.

Since when have Boris/Cummings been any different?

One is the puppet and the other is the master. Or the hand vs the glove, if one prefers.

Primary and Secondary, please, none of these slavery terms. Awfully passé in today's climate

[Slagathore]

bhstewie said:

That's quite incredible.

The party told your to ignore the evidence of your own eyes and ears.

Is anyone making excuses for that clown reading this and there isn't a little voice in their head going "WTF am I doing sticking up for this st?"?

No, because it's even stated there - 60% of care homes haven't had an outbreak. Were they just lucky?

What's most telling in all the responses is, no one is trying to post anything of substance to explain care home deaths or why some homes haven't had infections, instead, it's absolutely the government's fault for everything. That lack of thought-process makes it clear what the agenda is.

Shouldn't care homes already have something in place for infection control? Given how dangerous infections and bugs are to the elderly, should they not already be in a reasonable place to control the spread of infection? Should they not already have risk assessments etc for these type of situations?

Same for PPE, they are responsible for that, not the government, should they not have planned or thought one day there might be a pandemic and they would require extra?

Do the owners not have a duty of care to their patients to safeguard them, and do they really need the government holding their hands telling them exactly what to do, or should they have used some initiative to start safeguarding their patients back in January/Feb when the risks were becoming know?

So until you can explain why 60% haven't had any infection, it's fair to suggest some care homes have dealt with it better than others, which would suggest some didn't follow guidelines or have poor practices and standards in the first place. If you pay someone min wage and expect them to know the ins and outs of virus transmission, you're going to be disappointed. There were talks of NHS nurses misusing PPE, do you really think a carer will know any better than them?

His words were foolish and insensitive, but why can't he point something like that out? He obviously has access to information that we don't and he might actually have been telling the truth. It's the same way you can't criticise the NHS because they're all angels. The billions set aside for negligence claims would suggest a certain level of incompetence there too.

If it's accepted the government will have made mistakes throughout, and we're in no doubt about that, then it should be accepted the NHS and care homes will have made mistakes as well, but that can't be discussed, or is only used to deflect from the government's failings? It's that lack of logic and reasonableness that exposes most on here whose only purpose is to criticise instead of try and understand.

[mx5nut]

Oilchange said:

bhstewie, you need to sit down with a nice cup of tea and forget about the outside world for a while, you muppet...

It must be a lot easier to overlook Johnson's words and actions if you pretend they're not happening.

[gooner1]

Unknown_User said:

Thank you for posting the above transcript.

For me and most other interested parties, it is crystal clear what our Gov is doing here. Those posters that somehow refuse to acknowledge or accept the Gov's shenanigans here are wilfully condoning a Gov that is guilty of lying and a duplicitous modus operandi.

Who is it you usually vote for Piha, a one word answer will suffice?

[markyb_lcy]

amusingduck said:

markyb_lcy said:

Stay in Bed Instead said:

Unknown_User said:

Thank you for posting the above transcript.

For me and most other interested parties, it is crystal clear what our Gov is doing here. Those posters that somehow refuse to acknowledge or accept the Gov's shenanigans here are wilfully condoning a Gov that is guilty of lying and a duplicitous modus operandi.

Since when have Boris/Cummings been any different?

One is the puppet and the other is the master. Or the hand vs the glove, if one prefers.

Primary and Secondary, please, none of these slavery terms. Awfully passé in today's climate

I realised as I posted that, that only recently a Labour (I think) MP or councillor was criticised for using similar terms with regard to Richard Desmond. AFAIK Desmond is Jewish and the accusation I assume centred around tropes from "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and suchlike.

[bitchstewie]

Oilchange said:

bhstewie, you need to sit down with a nice cup of tea and forget about the outside world for a while, you muppet...

I've got one thanks.

Whilst I drink it I'm reading how our Prime Minister blaming care homes for not following "procedures" followed by his official spokesperson claiming he meant something completely different followed by the usual robust defense from people who seem to think that voting for someone means you have to agree with every utterance they make.

If you think that makes me a muppet that's absolutely fine by me.

It's easier than addressing the point at hand I guess.

[Unknown_User]

Slagathore said:

No, because it's even stated there - 60% of care homes haven't had an outbreak. Were they just lucky?

What's most telling in all the responses is, no one is trying to post anything of substance to explain care home deaths or why some homes haven't had infections, instead, it's absolutely the government's fault for everything. That lack of thought-process makes it clear what the agenda is.

Shouldn't care homes already have something in place for infection control? Given how dangerous infections and bugs are to the elderly, should they not already be in a reasonable place to control the spread of infection? Should they not already have risk assessments etc for these type of situations?

Same for PPE, they are responsible for that, not the government, should they not have planned or thought one day there might be a pandemic and they would require extra?

Do the owners not have a duty of care to their patients to safeguard them, and do they really need the government holding their hands telling them exactly what to do, or should they have used some initiative to start safeguarding their patients back in January/Feb when the risks were becoming know?

So until you can explain why 60% haven't had any infection, it's fair to suggest some care homes have dealt with it better than others, which would suggest some didn't follow guidelines or have poor practices and standards in the first place. If you pay someone min wage and expect them to know the ins and outs of virus transmission, you're going to be disappointed. There were talks of NHS nurses misusing PPE, do you really think a carer will know any better than them?

His words were foolish and insensitive, but why can't he point something like that out? He obviously has access to information that we don't and he might actually have been telling the truth. It's the same way you can't criticise the NHS because they're all angels. The billions set aside for negligence claims would suggest a certain level of incompetence there too.

If it's accepted the government will have made mistakes throughout, and we're in no doubt about that, then it should be accepted the NHS and care homes will have made mistakes as well, but that can't be discussed, or is only used to deflect from the government's failings? It's that lack of logic and reasonableness that exposes most on here whose only purpose is to criticise instead of try and understand.

You really have failed to understand the issue here. It’s the blame that de Pfeffel heaped on care homes without substantiation.

As you wrote above, “ It's that lack of logic and reasonableness that exposes most on here whose only purpose is to criticise instead of try and understand.“ Now replace “most on here” and replace with Boris Johnson.

I think you have proved the very thing that everyone is so rightfully frustrated about.

[markyb_lcy]

bhstewie said:

Oilchange said:

bhstewie, you need to sit down with a nice cup of tea and forget about the outside world for a while, you muppet...

I've got one thanks.

Whilst I drink it I'm reading how our Prime Minister blaming care homes for not following "procedures" followed by his official spokesperson claiming he meant something completely different followed by the usual robust defense from people who seem to think that voting for someone means you have to agree with every utterance they make.

If you think that makes me a muppet that's absolutely fine by me.

It's easier than addressing the point at hand I guess.

When all else fails, they whip out the ad-hom, often with a side of whataboutism.

gooner is about to hit Piha with much of the same.

Edited by markyb_lcy on Tuesday 7th July 15:42

[amusingduck]

markyb_lcy said:

I realised as I posted that, that only recently a Labour (I think) MP or councillor was criticised for using similar terms with regard to Richard Desmond. AFAIK Desmond is Jewish and the accusation I assume centred around tropes from "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and suchlike.

Seems like it

theJC said:

Conservative MP Andrew Percy, who is Jewish, said: “Alluding to Jews as puppet-masters is an age old antisemitic trope and for a Shadow Cabinet member to use this trope is totally unacceptable.

What if Cummings was Jewish (he may well be for all I know) - people basically call him the puppet master now, in more verbose terms. Seems a bit daft if someone tried to rephrase that in brevity, and called him a puppet master, every other word they used would be discarded. Such is life in 2020

No idea what's happening with Desmond, not attempting to excuse or downplay as I have no idea what it's all about.

My original post was poking fun at Twitter replacing master/slave/blacklist with "none offensive(??)" terms in their codebase

[Slagathore]

Unknown_User said:

You really have failed to understand the issue here. It’s the blame that de Pfeffel heaped on care homes without substantiation.

As you wrote above, “ It's that lack of logic and reasonableness that exposes most on here whose only purpose is to criticise instead of try and understand.“ Now replace “most on here” and replace with Boris Johnson.

I think you have proved the very thing that everyone is so rightfully frustrated about.

Why is there no substance to it? Do you know everything the government do? I've given plenty of substance as to why individual care homes might be responsible, but predictably, you've ignored all of that.

Are the care homes not responsible for their actions or lack of, if they have been found to have made mistakes?

Everybody is desperate for lessons learned, but only if it paints the government in a bad light. It'a almost as if it's not possible at all for anyone else other than government to have made mistakes.

[Alucidnation]

markyb_lcy said:

Alucidnation said:

It seemed perfectly clear to me what he was saying.

Was he wrong though?

Whether he is wrong or right (and I don't think I'm well placed to say either way - how about you Alucidnation?), I think it was a particularly bad political move to say what he did and badly-timed too. There is an element of victim-blaming in it I believe.

Edited by markyb_lcy on Tuesday 7th July 13:52

I don’t know if what he was saying was correct or not as none of us have any access to anything to back it up either way.

However, his choice of words was a bit off, but the point still stood if what he is saying is true.

I guess none of us will know, apart from the usual experts in here.

[markyb_lcy]

amusingduck said:

markyb_lcy said:

I realised as I posted that, that only recently a Labour (I think) MP or councillor was criticised for using similar terms with regard to Richard Desmond. AFAIK Desmond is Jewish and the accusation I assume centred around tropes from "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and suchlike.

Seems like it

theJC said:

Conservative MP Andrew Percy, who is Jewish, said: “Alluding to Jews as puppet-masters is an age old antisemitic trope and for a Shadow Cabinet member to use this trope is totally unacceptable.

What if Cummings was Jewish (he may well be for all I know) - people basically call him the puppet master now, in more verbose terms. Seems a bit daft if someone tried to rephrase that in brevity, and called him a puppet master, every other word they used would be discarded. Such is life in 2020

No idea what's happening with Desmond, not attempting to excuse or downplay as I have no idea what it's all about.

My original post was poking fun at Twitter replacing master/slave/blacklist with "none offensive(??)" terms in their codebase

It's a perfect storm of identity politics and excessive political correctness. Could be that the term "puppet master" was used to describe Desmond without even the slightest thought to the fact he is Jewish. I don't personally think it was meant as anti-semitic but only the person who utters it can know this.

More and more words are restricted based on who you are and what you're talking about.

A white person using the "N word" in practically any context (even in some cases as a direct quote of another person) is typically derided however if you're a black rapper then you can use it every other line.

Context is key but context can be oversimplified.

[Sway]

Bit racist to continually refer to somebody in the negative by their foreign sounding middle name, given in honour of his great grandmother, isn't it?

Piha, you should be ashamed of yourself.

[Derek Smith]

amusingduck said:

markyb_lcy said:

I realised as I posted that, that only recently a Labour (I think) MP or councillor was criticised for using similar terms with regard to Richard Desmond. AFAIK Desmond is Jewish and the accusation I assume centred around tropes from "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and suchlike.

Seems like it

theJC said:

Conservative MP Andrew Percy, who is Jewish, said: “Alluding to Jews as puppet-masters is an age old antisemitic trope and for a Shadow Cabinet member to use this trope is totally unacceptable.

What if Cummings was Jewish (he may well be for all I know) - people basically call him the puppet master now, in more verbose terms. Seems a bit daft if someone tried to rephrase that in brevity, and called him a puppet master, every other word they used would be discarded. Such is life in 2020

No idea what's happening with Desmond, not attempting to excuse or downplay as I have no idea what it's all about.

My original post was poking fun at Twitter replacing master/slave/blacklist with "none offensive(??)" terms in their codebase

I'm in my dotage, but have not come across the term puppet master meant as an offensive term against Jews. I've Googled it, and it seems neither have they. Age-old? It seems not many people know that.

[gooner1]

Sway said:

Bit racist to continually refer to somebody in the negative by their foreign sounding middle name, given in honour of his great grandmother, isn't it?

Piha, you should be ashamed of yourself.

Been on the sauce again, perhaps.

[amusingduck]

Derek Smith said:

I'm in my dotage, but have not come across the term puppet master meant as an offensive term against Jews. I've Googled it, and it seems neither have they. Age-old? It seems not many people know that.

What were you googling? I get a variety of results for 'jewish trope puppet master', such as:


https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/roger-waters-...
https://www.adl.org/news/media-watch/letter-to-fox...
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/guardian-cartoonist-...

It's the first time I've heard of it being an antisemetic trope too

[Zirconia]

Funnily enough it has cropped up as some form of attack on people using the phrase on twitter. Is it doing the rounds right wing web sites now as some form of defence of the indefensible.

Not liking the evidence against your team then get a term in as racist?

[gooner1]

markyb_lcy said:

When all else fails, they whip out the ad-hom, often with a side of whataboutism.

gooner is about to hit Piha with much of the same.

Edited by markyb_lcy on Tuesday 7th July 15:42

Ad-Homs such as “ Boris bootlickers “ you mean?

Whataboutism a term oft used in an attempt to deflect a point I believe,

Well done you.

[markyb_lcy]

gooner1 said:

markyb_lcy said:

When all else fails, they whip out the ad-hom, often with a side of whataboutism.

gooner is about to hit Piha with much of the same.

Edited by markyb_lcy on Tuesday 7th July 15:42

Ad-Homs such as “ Boris bootlickers “ you mean?

Whataboutism a term oft used in an attempt to deflect a point I believe,

Well done you.

"Takes one to know one"

What can I say, you've got me there, fair play.

(I realise it's "not very PH" to accept a criticism but it does feel the right thing to do in this instance)

Edited by markyb_lcy on Tuesday 7th July 16:32

[gooner1]

markyb_lcy said:

"Takes one to know one"

What can I say, you've got me there, fair play.

(I realise it's "not very PH" to accept a criticism but it does feel the right thing to do in this instance)

Edited by markyb_lcy on Tuesday 7th July 16:32

Fair play to yourself.