Boris Johnson- Prime Minister (Vol. 4)
Discussion
rustednut said:
Tuna said:
Wow, you guys are really getting yourselves worked up. Really handing those "Boris Ultras" their asses. 
We made up a set of masks a month or two ago - there are some good guides online - and as per government rules, the we've been wearing them on public transport. They're a faff, but if this can keep numbers heading in the right direction, then of course we'll wear them for shops.
Does the tinfoil go on the inside, or the outside?
is this the support of Boris saying masks are essential, and the non support of Gove saying they won't be. Or was Gove right and Boris wrong?We made up a set of masks a month or two ago - there are some good guides online - and as per government rules, the we've been wearing them on public transport. They're a faff, but if this can keep numbers heading in the right direction, then of course we'll wear them for shops.
Does the tinfoil go on the inside, or the outside?
Does anybody have any idea of what this rabble are doing, or even discussing between themselves.
Why do so many Tory supporters have to support them. Can you not accept being a Tory and recognising that this rabble are nothing but a rabble ?
Do not expect rational thought from the Johnson supporters on this thread, none has been displayed in all the countless posts on all volumes of this interminable hamster-wheel.
Today is just another example of attempting (and failing as per usual) to defend the indefensible.
markyb_lcy said:
It's about proportionality stewie. If they mandated masks (sorry, face-coverings made from old tshirts because they don't want you buying the effective ones) 3 months ago, it would have made sense and I'd have had no issue doing it. Right now, the levels of infection out and about (because let's have it right, anyone with symptoms should and most likely will be at home) are tiny.
Great, let's keep them tiny.How can we do that?
markyb_lcy said:
It's about proportionality stewie. If they mandated masks (sorry, face-coverings made from old tshirts because they don't want you buying the effective ones) 3 months ago, it would have made sense and I'd have had no issue doing it. Right now, the levels of infection out and about (because let's have it right, anyone with symptoms should and most likely will be at home) are tiny.
Proportionality works both ways though.I'm not a medical expert so I'm not trying to debate that as it's not my area of expertise.
I'm being asked to wear a mask if I go to the shops and you have grown men and women carrying on as if it's the end of days.
I'm not sitting here thinking "Yay masks!!" but equally it's just not that big of a deal.
IforB said:
It is not necessarily being a Tory that is the issue, I know plenty of Conservative voters, party members and even Councillors who think this Government are utterly useless and that Johnson is unfit to hold the office of PM, but on PH, the second you don't follow the "Johnson is great" mantra, then that automatically puts you into the category of "the enemy."
Do not expect rational thought from the Johnson supporters on this thread, none has been displayed in all the countless posts on all volumes of this interminable hamster-wheel.
Today is just another example of attempting (and failing as per usual) to defend the indefensible.
Yep, there is IMO a huge difference between being a conservative supporter and being a member of the Boris cult. You'll see members of the latter laying into Cameron, May etc but the moment anyone says anything negative about their Dear Leader Boris, they'll have you down as a Corbyn-worshipping, rabid snowflake marxist.Do not expect rational thought from the Johnson supporters on this thread, none has been displayed in all the countless posts on all volumes of this interminable hamster-wheel.
Today is just another example of attempting (and failing as per usual) to defend the indefensible.
rustednut said:
is this the support of Boris saying masks are essential, and the non support of Gove saying they won't be. Or was Gove right and Boris wrong?
Does anybody have any idea of what this rabble are doing, or even discussing between themselves.
Why do so many Tory supporters have to support them. Can you not accept being a Tory and recognising that this rabble are nothing but a rabble ?
Rabble? All this was a carefully orchestrated PR test campaign a few posts back. Does anybody have any idea of what this rabble are doing, or even discussing between themselves.
Why do so many Tory supporters have to support them. Can you not accept being a Tory and recognising that this rabble are nothing but a rabble ?
amusingduck said:
markyb_lcy said:
It's about proportionality stewie. If they mandated masks (sorry, face-coverings made from old tshirts because they don't want you buying the effective ones) 3 months ago, it would have made sense and I'd have had no issue doing it. Right now, the levels of infection out and about (because let's have it right, anyone with symptoms should and most likely will be at home) are tiny.
Great, let's keep them tiny.How can we do that?
The numbers have been and are trending downwards, without masks being mandated and with us increasing mobility and opening things.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:markyb_lcy said:
It's about proportionality stewie. If they mandated masks (sorry, face-coverings made from old tshirts because they don't want you buying the effective ones) 3 months ago, it would have made sense and I'd have had no issue doing it. Right now, the levels of infection out and about (because let's have it right, anyone with symptoms should and most likely will be at home) are tiny.
Proportionality works both ways though.I'm not a medical expert so I'm not trying to debate that as it's not my area of expertise.
I'm being asked to wear a mask if I go to the shops and you have grown men and women carrying on as if it's the end of days.
I'm not sitting here thinking "Yay masks!!" but equally it's just not that big of a deal.
rustednut said:
Why do so many Tory supporters have to support them. Can you not accept being a Tory and recognising that this rabble are nothing but a rabble ?
You've just described me; I voted Tory at the last two elections, and am now very frustrated at this government, not least Boris. I had hoped they would prove competent, but have instead shown themselves to be a bunch of inexperienced bluffers with no sense of direction and no strategy.They simply leap from one focus-group-led idea to the next, with no logic; it's farcical. Rabble is about right, I'm afraid. The latest face covering nonsense marks a new low in this government's dismal 2020 performance.
mx5nut said:
Unknown_User said:
The mental gymnastics on display today from our resident Dom Cum/Boris Ultra's is quite astounding! Keep it up lads, it's all rather entertaining...
We love Boris because he speaks his mind and isn't afraid to do what's right for our country.Except on masks, where he's part of a globalist metropolitan elite conspiracy and should be ignored before we lose our very freedom
It shows how these ultras really are ideologically narrow. they see the world in one dimension and anything that falls outside of that is something to be hated. Compromise, rationality, consensus and plain and simple democracy are completely unknown quantities to them. They think they are right and despite not being able string a sentence together to be able to defend that view, they are utterly convinced of it.
Whilst it is amusing to see them, they are also deeply troubling too.
markyb_lcy said:
IforB said:
It is not necessarily being a Tory that is the issue, I know plenty of Conservative voters, party members and even Councillors who think this Government are utterly useless and that Johnson is unfit to hold the office of PM, but on PH, the second you don't follow the "Johnson is great" mantra, then that automatically puts you into the category of "the enemy."
Do not expect rational thought from the Johnson supporters on this thread, none has been displayed in all the countless posts on all volumes of this interminable hamster-wheel.
Today is just another example of attempting (and failing as per usual) to defend the indefensible.
Yep, there is IMO a huge difference between being a conservative supporter and being a member of the Boris cult. You'll see members of the latter laying into Cameron, May etc but the moment anyone says anything negative about their Dear Leader Boris, they'll have you down as a Corbyn-worshipping, rabid snowflake marxist.Do not expect rational thought from the Johnson supporters on this thread, none has been displayed in all the countless posts on all volumes of this interminable hamster-wheel.
Today is just another example of attempting (and failing as per usual) to defend the indefensible.
It’s obviously not the government’s fault in any way for not advising mask wearing earlier though.
That was due to some new mask wearing science and shortages of home made face coverings or something. robemcdonald said:
JagLover said:
robemcdonald said:
JagLover said:
Slagathore said:
I don't recall seeing any in my Nan's home, but I obviously didn't meet all the staff.
"While a few very senior care roles in the NHS could allow arrivals to qualify for the visa, the minimum threshold is what is known as regulated qualifications framework (RFQ) three or above, roughly equivalent to A-levels.
The Home Office classes most care staff as being at RFQ one, equivalent to lower-graded GCSE passes. New overseas nationals will still be able to work in care but only if they are dependants of someone else, or have another type of visa, for example a student visa!
I don't doubt it is hard work, but that doesn't mean that it is skilled. Hence not needing and qualifications to get work and why it is paid so little.
If you have a look at job adverts, it's clear they will take pretty much anyone for the care assistant type jobs.
I think it is obviously sensible to not recruit those sort of jobs from abroad. And if people aren't interested in the job at £8.50 an hour, maybe the shortage will cause employers to realise they need to pay more to get a better quality of staff, rather than relying on a revolving door of cheap labour from Europe?
And to be honest, a lot of people aren't going to have a choice when the furlough ends. That is the really sad reality of the situation we are in.
Given that we are shortly going to have at least 4 million unemployed complaining that we wont be able to bring in labour from overseas to fill low skilled positions seems even more bizarre than normal. "While a few very senior care roles in the NHS could allow arrivals to qualify for the visa, the minimum threshold is what is known as regulated qualifications framework (RFQ) three or above, roughly equivalent to A-levels.
The Home Office classes most care staff as being at RFQ one, equivalent to lower-graded GCSE passes. New overseas nationals will still be able to work in care but only if they are dependants of someone else, or have another type of visa, for example a student visa!
I don't doubt it is hard work, but that doesn't mean that it is skilled. Hence not needing and qualifications to get work and why it is paid so little.
If you have a look at job adverts, it's clear they will take pretty much anyone for the care assistant type jobs.
I think it is obviously sensible to not recruit those sort of jobs from abroad. And if people aren't interested in the job at £8.50 an hour, maybe the shortage will cause employers to realise they need to pay more to get a better quality of staff, rather than relying on a revolving door of cheap labour from Europe?
And to be honest, a lot of people aren't going to have a choice when the furlough ends. That is the really sad reality of the situation we are in.
The local carehome might be a lifeline for many people facing destitution.
.
Plenty of hard working people losing their jobs at the moment through no fault of their own. Why would someone with equally limited experience coming from overseas be automatically superior?
I'f you've just been made redundant from your retail or hospitality job, what options do people like that have? They're likely in those jobs because they have no qualifications or they needed flexible hours. Grads are going to be lapping up the entry level professional jobs, these people will have really limited options.
They're young, they hopefully care, they might even find it rewarding.
Much in the same way people who were let go from their jobs and took up delivery/courier jobs, people will have to adapt and consider their options. There's a big different in someone taking a job out of necessity and not necessarily enjoying it, but doing it to an acceptable standard and someone with no interest doing a s
t job. You'd hope the care homes and agencies will be able to spot those easily enough.It's really hard to argue against it unless you just want to play politics. Jobs are going to be the most important thing in the recovery, so I can't really see the problem.
If they can tie it in with the apprenticeship push as well, then even better. Get people interested in getting qualifications and progression will definitely make it more appealing.
El stovey said:
markyb_lcy said:
IforB said:
It is not necessarily being a Tory that is the issue, I know plenty of Conservative voters, party members and even Councillors who think this Government are utterly useless and that Johnson is unfit to hold the office of PM, but on PH, the second you don't follow the "Johnson is great" mantra, then that automatically puts you into the category of "the enemy."
Do not expect rational thought from the Johnson supporters on this thread, none has been displayed in all the countless posts on all volumes of this interminable hamster-wheel.
Today is just another example of attempting (and failing as per usual) to defend the indefensible.
Yep, there is IMO a huge difference between being a conservative supporter and being a member of the Boris cult. You'll see members of the latter laying into Cameron, May etc but the moment anyone says anything negative about their Dear Leader Boris, they'll have you down as a Corbyn-worshipping, rabid snowflake marxist.Do not expect rational thought from the Johnson supporters on this thread, none has been displayed in all the countless posts on all volumes of this interminable hamster-wheel.
Today is just another example of attempting (and failing as per usual) to defend the indefensible.
It’s obviously not the government’s fault in any way for not advising mask wearing earlier though.
That was due to some new mask wearing science and shortages of home made face coverings or something. When they can't criticise their leader (who is PM) for bringing out a policy they disagree with, they'll blame whatever "elite" they think they can. The BBC, the WHO, lefties, marxists, corbyn etc
IforB said:
Yeah, what is that all about?
It shows how these ultras really are ideologically narrow. they see the world in one dimension and anything that falls outside of that is something to be hated. Compromise, rationality, consensus and plain and simple democracy are completely unknown quantities to them. They think they are right and despite not being able string a sentence together to be able to defend that view, they are utterly convinced of it.
Whilst it is amusing to see them, they are also deeply troubling too.
Check out the mask wearing thread. Posters on there linking mask wearing to Marxist plots to end capitalism. Ferguson (the leftie) is in on it as are the media and various other dark forces.It shows how these ultras really are ideologically narrow. they see the world in one dimension and anything that falls outside of that is something to be hated. Compromise, rationality, consensus and plain and simple democracy are completely unknown quantities to them. They think they are right and despite not being able string a sentence together to be able to defend that view, they are utterly convinced of it.
Whilst it is amusing to see them, they are also deeply troubling too.
Amazing Boris is going along with it.
El stovey said:
Check out the mask wearing thread. Posters on there linking mask wearing to Marxist plots to end capitalism. Ferguson (the leftie) is in on it as are the media and various other dark forces.
Amazing Boris is going along with it.
Thing is with that one at what point do you step back and think you're dealing with some sort of mass psychosis?Amazing Boris is going along with it.
I mean I think Trump is a madman but there's a point where you realise he's literally a madman and mocking feels a bit uncomfortable.
So said:
IforB said:
jakesmith said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Honestly it's really odd.
I've said before that I know this thing takes its toll on peoples mental well being but I'm genuinely shocked at how quickly people seem to turn and assume plot conspiracy and subjugation over something as trivial as being asked to wear a mask temporarily.
Couldn't agree more, it's a mask during a pandemic FFS, it's hardly trying to centralise and control the entire broadband provision of the country or something.I've said before that I know this thing takes its toll on peoples mental well being but I'm genuinely shocked at how quickly people seem to turn and assume plot conspiracy and subjugation over something as trivial as being asked to wear a mask temporarily.
That is where competent leadership comes in, it recognises the limitations and acts accordingly. It doesn't mean spoon feeding everything, but providing clear, easy to understand and most importantly unambiguous advice to the population as a whole.
Remember 50% of people are also under average intelligence. Which means we need to make it easier for them to understand too.
It is such a shame for Johnson to have screwed it up this badly. He has waited his whole life to get into the top job, then he managed it, found himself with a massive majority and a smashed to pieces opposition and then over the horizon came the moment he must have dreamed about. A huge crisis to allow him to emulate his idol, and be seen as a Churchillian leader and cement his place as a great leader.
Yet he has not just skyed the ball over the bar, as much as fallen on it, broke both legs, punctured the ball and then handed it to the opposing team who have run 20 easy goals past him and now look favourites for the championship.
It must be heartbreaking for him to know just how badly he has failed.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I'm being asked to wear a mask if I go to the shops and you have grown men and women carrying on as if it's the end of days.
But where does it stop? One day they're asking us to wear a mask and then they'll be....Nobody seems to be able to complete this sentence. But they're sure that Boris Johnson is now part of some leftist marxist globalist plot to... make them wear masks for unknown reasons.
El stovey said:
IforB said:
Yeah, what is that all about?
It shows how these ultras really are ideologically narrow. they see the world in one dimension and anything that falls outside of that is something to be hated. Compromise, rationality, consensus and plain and simple democracy are completely unknown quantities to them. They think they are right and despite not being able string a sentence together to be able to defend that view, they are utterly convinced of it.
Whilst it is amusing to see them, they are also deeply troubling too.
Check out the mask wearing thread. Posters on there linking mask wearing to Marxist plots to end capitalism. Ferguson (the leftie) is in on it as are the media and various other dark forces.It shows how these ultras really are ideologically narrow. they see the world in one dimension and anything that falls outside of that is something to be hated. Compromise, rationality, consensus and plain and simple democracy are completely unknown quantities to them. They think they are right and despite not being able string a sentence together to be able to defend that view, they are utterly convinced of it.
Whilst it is amusing to see them, they are also deeply troubling too.
Amazing Boris is going along with it.
markyb_lcy said:
Right now, the levels of infection out and about (because let's have it right, anyone with symptoms should and most likely will be at home) are tiny.
Just picking up on this as it's factually incorrect as I understand it. This is specifically why the WHO have only relatively recently (June?) changed their guidelines on mask wearing in public. The significant change is that they believe that far more people are asymptomatic than previously believed. That means that people are spreading the disease without knowing it and are not "more likely to be at home".
Don't worry Stewie, I'm not defending Boris, just pointing something out that might be important.
markyb_lcy said:
Yep, all good points.
When they can't criticise their leader (who is PM) for bringing out a policy they disagree with, they'll blame whatever "elite" they think they can. The BBC, the WHO, lefties, marxists, corbyn etc
Plus the public for being too fat and BAME, the NHS and care homes for “not following procedures”. Anyone but Boris who’s in charge and “ultimately responsible for the policy and decisions of the government”When they can't criticise their leader (who is PM) for bringing out a policy they disagree with, they'll blame whatever "elite" they think they can. The BBC, the WHO, lefties, marxists, corbyn etc
Still, he’s not honest, he shirks responsibility and accountability and he’s not a details man is he? What do people expect.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:El stovey said:
Check out the mask wearing thread. Posters on there linking mask wearing to Marxist plots to end capitalism. Ferguson (the leftie) is in on it as are the media and various other dark forces.
Amazing Boris is going along with it.
Thing is with that one at what point do you step back and think you're dealing with some sort of mass psychosis?Amazing Boris is going along with it.
I mean I think Trump is a madman but there's a point where you realise he's literally a madman and mocking feels a bit uncomfortable.
We see it on this thread daily and I agree, there has to be some form of mass psychosis going on to explain just how many people seem to be utterly mental.
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