Boris Johnson- Prime Minister (Vol. 4)

[mx5nut]

Johnson still pushing the line that, with an 80 seat majority in his favour, all the problems the country is suffering are because the opposition are, er, opposing him.

[deadslow]

mx5nut said:

Johnson still pushing the line that, with an 80 seat majority in his favour, all the problems the country is suffering are because the opposition are, er, opposing him.

Johnson is comedy gold with this patter. He has just turned out to be so much less than his fans anticipated. No ideas and nothing to say.

[IforB]

Tuna said:

markyb_lcy said:

Which people are saying this and engaging in the doublethink you're accusing? Certainly IforB's comment which you quoted in your response isn't saying either of those things.

I believe Ifor was saying we shouldn't be relying on infrastructure providers that pose a security risk?

I also believe he's on record as being strongly against Brexit as we cannot survive without the EU etc?

He can perhaps tell us if he commented on the UK government buying into the satellite network firm a week or so ago, but I'm pretty sure the same people (Piha and others) who rushed to condemn that 'ridiculous Brexiteer expense' are the ones who are now saying we shouldn't have hesitated to spend more on 5G infrastructure that we controlled ourselves.

I have said none of those things and I certainly have never suggested that the UK cannot survive without the EU. My opposition to Brexit is the narrow-minded mindset that suggests that the Human-race needs to pull apart into smaller groups to meet the challenges coming our way, rather than working together properly. Nationalism is a scourge and Brexit is foremost a nationailstic project that seeks to seperate us from others. That is why it is bad imo.

Why not try reading what people actually write and answer that, rather than assuming you know what they are thinking.

If you want to know my opinion on the purchase of One-Web (something I have never commented on) then I will simply say that it is a very risky market to be in. Space-X are roaring ahead with theirs and I suspect will be first to market, which may make this a bad investment.

This is also not taking into account the stupidity of some people thinking that One-Web is somehow a replacement for Galileo.

As for what the decision about the 5G infrastructure should have been, the simple answer is "anything that doesn't involve putting control of our critical infrastructure and communications into the hands of a nation state that we are in competition with and are fundamentally ideologically opposed to."

Not rocket science that. Even Johnson could probably have understood it. He just chose the wrong path. Again.

[Unknown_User]

Choona in "makings things up" shoka..........again!

[Ridgemont]

Unknown_User said:

Choona in "makings things up" shoka..........again!

Does that genuinely add anything?
You are to civil discourse what herpes is to sexual intercourse.

[abzmike]

deadslow said:

Johnson is comedy gold with this patter. He has just turned out to be so much less than his fans anticipated. No ideas and nothing to say.

His entire tactic of bouncing every legitmatley asked question back to Starmer, and demanding unfettered support, is getting very old.
As for his atttempt at comedy, comparing Starmer's briefs to Calvin Klein, in repsonse to a question about bereaved families was crass beyond words.

[IforB]

Ridgemont said:

Unknown_User said:

Choona in "makings things up" shoka..........again!

Does that genuinely add anything?
You are to civil discourse what herpes is to sexual intercourse.

Does that genuinely add anything either?

My irony meter is off the scale here. Do not slag some else off for making a fatuous comment with a fatuous comment.

[IforB]

abzmike said:

deadslow said:

Johnson is comedy gold with this patter. He has just turned out to be so much less than his fans anticipated. No ideas and nothing to say.

His entire tactic of bouncing every legitmatley asked question back to Starmer, and demanding unfettered support, is getting very old.
As for his atttempt at comedy, comparing Starmer's briefs to Calvin Klein, in repsonse to a question about bereaved families was crass beyond words.

He really does seem to be a one trick pony. He is so out of his depth when it comes to Starmer that he needs a stop half way up to stop himself getting the bends.

[Tuna]

IforB said:

As for what the decision about the 5G infrastructure should have been, the simple answer is "anything that doesn't involve putting control of our critical infrastructure and communications into the hands of a nation state that we are in competition with and are fundamentally ideologically opposed to."

Why is that different from the decision we made for 4G and 3G infrastructure? Huawei have been the dominant supplier of mobile infrastructure for nearly a decade.

What's being ignored here is that we've significantly changed our approach to China over the last few years. For a long time, we worked hard to trade and build commercial partnerships in the belief that it was the best way to soften their political position. Globalisation was seen as a positive force - you don't pick fights with people you trade and work with.

You yourself said:

iforb said:

My opposition to Brexit is the narrow-minded mindset that suggests that the Human-race needs to pull apart into smaller groups to meet the challenges coming our way, rather than working together properly

That's exactly the same principle that has us building factories out there (such as Tesla), building infrastructure there (Amazon, Google) and partnering on everything from nuclear power stations to mobile phones.

Whilst we have been fundamentally opposed their ideology, we've chosen to live with it and manage the risk for decades now. Cutting China off is risking a new cold war. So when you say "the simple answer is...", it tells me you're opposing for opposing sake, because there really isn't a simple answer. I'm not approving of what our government, or Trump, or the EU are doing right now - but I am pretty sure that any blowhard who charges in claiming there's an obvious right way to deal with this is talking nonsense.

[Vanden Saab]

markyb_lcy said:

Johnson at PMQs today...

PM Boris Johnson said:

Our test-and-trace system is as good as or better than anywhere else in the world.

Is there a single person here that believes this?

Seems fair, the only systems that operate better involve people being forced to hand over their phone and credit cards so the authorities can check everywhere they have been. That or following their every movement on CCTV using face recognition and then removing everyone who has been in contact with them to an 'isolation centre' I am guessing from many of your posts you would be happy for that to happen here.

[Ridgemont]

IforB said:

Ridgemont said:

Unknown_User said:

Choona in "makings things up" shoka..........again!

Does that genuinely add anything?
You are to civil discourse what herpes is to sexual intercourse.

Does that genuinely add anything either?

My irony meter is off the scale here. Do not slag some else off for making a fatuous comment with a fatuous comment.

Just saying that he’s a mild irritant/rash amongst what would otherwise be a congenial experience...

[Tuna]

Unknown_User said:

Choona in "makings things up" shoka..........again!

Oh bless. Keeping the tone high as usual, Piha?

I like the accusations that I flounce on a regular basis - evidence free and devoid of any content relevant to the discussion. At least you're consistent in your posts.

[markyb_lcy]

Vanden Saab said:

markyb_lcy said:

Johnson at PMQs today...

PM Boris Johnson said:

Our test-and-trace system is as good as or better than anywhere else in the world.

Is there a single person here that believes this?

Seems fair, the only systems that operate better involve people being forced to hand over their phone and credit cards so the authorities can check everywhere they have been. That or following their every movement on CCTV using face recognition and then removing everyone who has been in contact with them to an 'isolation centre' I am guessing from many of your posts you would be happy for that to happen here.

I think you need to review your guessing technique

So if this track and trace system is so damn good, why are they withholding from publishing the statistics?

[s2art]

markyb_lcy said:

Vanden Saab said:

markyb_lcy said:

Johnson at PMQs today...

PM Boris Johnson said:

Our test-and-trace system is as good as or better than anywhere else in the world.

Is there a single person here that believes this?

Seems fair, the only systems that operate better involve people being forced to hand over their phone and credit cards so the authorities can check everywhere they have been. That or following their every movement on CCTV using face recognition and then removing everyone who has been in contact with them to an 'isolation centre' I am guessing from many of your posts you would be happy for that to happen here.

I think you need to review your guessing technique

So if this track and trace system is so damn good, why are they withholding from publishing the statistics?

Are they? Recently watched Politics Live where those stats were being discussed and fact checked.

[IforB]

Tuna said:

IforB said:

As for what the decision about the 5G infrastructure should have been, the simple answer is "anything that doesn't involve putting control of our critical infrastructure and communications into the hands of a nation state that we are in competition with and are fundamentally ideologically opposed to."

Why is that different from the decision we made for 4G and 3G infrastructure? Huawei have been the dominant supplier of mobile infrastructure for nearly a decade.

What's being ignored here is that we've significantly changed our approach to China over the last few years. For a long time, we worked hard to trade and build commercial partnerships in the belief that it was the best way to soften their political position. Globalisation was seen as a positive force - you don't pick fights with people you trade and work with.

You yourself said:

iforb said:

My opposition to Brexit is the narrow-minded mindset that suggests that the Human-race needs to pull apart into smaller groups to meet the challenges coming our way, rather than working together properly

That's exactly the same principle that has us building factories out there (such as Tesla), building infrastructure there (Amazon, Google) and partnering on everything from nuclear power stations to mobile phones.

Whilst we have been fundamentally opposed their ideology, we've chosen to live with it and manage the risk for decades now. Cutting China off is risking a new cold war. So when you say "the simple answer is...", it tells me you're opposing for opposing sake, because there really isn't a simple answer. I'm not approving of what our government, or Trump, or the EU are doing right now - but I am pretty sure that any blowhard who charges in claiming there's an obvious right way to deal with this is talking nonsense.

When you did maths at school, did you often find the teachers telling you that 2+2 actually equals 4 rather than 638.2?

Some more work on your reading comprehension may not go amiss either, as you are completely missing what I have actually said.

[s2art]

IforB said:

I have said none of those things and I certainly have never suggested that the UK cannot survive without the EU. My opposition to Brexit is the narrow-minded mindset that suggests that the Human-race needs to pull apart into smaller groups to meet the challenges coming our way, rather than working together properly. Nationalism is a scourge and Brexit is foremost a nationailstic project that seeks to seperate us from others. That is why it is bad imo.

I think you are 180 degree out on this. Just because nations exist doesnt prevent cooperation. It was the USA and UK who cooperated to build the atom bomb and nuclear power for instance.



Here is a quote from Nick Ridley:

The secret of Europe when it was at its most innovative was that it was fragmented politically.


Its from https://nav.al/matt-ridley

And its worth reading.

[IforB]

s2art said:

IforB said:

I have said none of those things and I certainly have never suggested that the UK cannot survive without the EU. My opposition to Brexit is the narrow-minded mindset that suggests that the Human-race needs to pull apart into smaller groups to meet the challenges coming our way, rather than working together properly. Nationalism is a scourge and Brexit is foremost a nationailstic project that seeks to seperate us from others. That is why it is bad imo.

I think you are 180 degree out on this. Just because nations exist doesnt prevent cooperation. It was the USA and UK who cooperated to build the atom bomb and nuclear power for instance.



Here is a quote from Nick Ridley:

The secret of Europe when it was at its most innovative was that it was fragmented politically.


Its from https://nav.al/matt-ridley

And its worth reading.

Co-operation and team work always works better long term and whether "innovation" is better as an individual does not change the fact that there is more to it than just that. For example, my company is relatively small in the grand scheme of things. We can quickly switch our development ideas around and can move far, far faster than a corporate behemoth. However, this does not mean we are more successful.

We have global challenges such a biodiversity collapse, Pollution, Climate change, falling birth rates and sterility etc etc.that impact all of us whether we acknowledge them or not.

These things need a co-ordinated response. Your example of the atom bomb is an interesting one, as it shows the benefit to the US of working with allies to reach a common goal. Once the war was over, that partnership fundamentally fell apart and the UK was forced to give up much of it's technical leadership in many areas. We got screwed over fundamentally. Another example of that being the Miles M2 and the Bell X1 and the breaking of the sound barrier, or the Gas Turbine technology that was whipped away from RR.

On a fundamental level, we were the supplicant to a bigger player and lost out. As part of an organisation like the EU, we are part of the whole (and in the EU sense, one of the dominant members) and so were in a position to benefit from our developments and the developments of others as equal partners. We are now back in the supplicant position with sharks like the US and China about who will happily strip us bare for their own benefit.

What we have a problem with in the UK is the whitewashing of the realities of the British position throughout the years. We think of ourselves as too smart to get screwed over by bigger players, yet there are huge numbers of examples of this happening.they just get brushed off and the example you have given as a benefit of being solo is nothing of the sort in reality.

Stepping away from the EU is a terrible retrograde step that will haunt us for decades. History will be the judge of it eventually, but I suspect it will be categorised as one of the worst decisions a nation state has made about it's global position.

[markyb_lcy]

s2art said:

markyb_lcy said:

Vanden Saab said:

markyb_lcy said:

Johnson at PMQs today...

PM Boris Johnson said:

Our test-and-trace system is as good as or better than anywhere else in the world.

Is there a single person here that believes this?

Seems fair, the only systems that operate better involve people being forced to hand over their phone and credit cards so the authorities can check everywhere they have been. That or following their every movement on CCTV using face recognition and then removing everyone who has been in contact with them to an 'isolation centre' I am guessing from many of your posts you would be happy for that to happen here.

I think you need to review your guessing technique

So if this track and trace system is so damn good, why are they withholding from publishing the statistics?

Are they? Recently watched Politics Live where those stats were being discussed and fact checked.

Apologies to VS, I do think I may have got this wrong. I'd convinced myself I'd read a news report that statistics were being withheld, however upon searching for them, they do in fact exist...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-tes...

I'm not sure what happened there!

[s2art]

IforB said:

s2art said:

IforB said:

I have said none of those things and I certainly have never suggested that the UK cannot survive without the EU. My opposition to Brexit is the narrow-minded mindset that suggests that the Human-race needs to pull apart into smaller groups to meet the challenges coming our way, rather than working together properly. Nationalism is a scourge and Brexit is foremost a nationailstic project that seeks to seperate us from others. That is why it is bad imo.

I think you are 180 degree out on this. Just because nations exist doesnt prevent cooperation. It was the USA and UK who cooperated to build the atom bomb and nuclear power for instance.



Here is a quote from Nick Ridley:

The secret of Europe when it was at its most innovative was that it was fragmented politically.


Its from https://nav.al/matt-ridley

And its worth reading.

Co-operation and team work always works better long term and whether "innovation" is better as an individual does not change the fact that there is more to it than just that. For example, my company is relatively small in the grand scheme of things. We can quickly switch our development ideas around and can move far, far faster than a corporate behemoth. However, this does not mean we are more successful.

We have global challenges such a biodiversity collapse, Pollution, Climate change, falling birth rates and sterility etc etc.that impact all of us whether we acknowledge them or not.

These things need a co-ordinated response. Your example of the atom bomb is an interesting one, as it shows the benefit to the US of working with allies to reach a common goal. Once the war was over, that partnership fundamentally fell apart and the UK was forced to give up much of it's technical leadership in many areas. We got screwed over fundamentally. Another example of that being the Miles M2 and the Bell X1 and the breaking of the sound barrier, or the Gas Turbine technology that was whipped away from RR.

On a fundamental level, we were the supplicant to a bigger player and lost out. As part of an organisation like the EU, we are part of the whole (and in the EU sense, one of the dominant members) and so were in a position to benefit from our developments and the developments of others as equal partners. We are now back in the supplicant position with sharks like the US and China about who will happily strip us bare for their own benefit.

What we have a problem with in the UK is the whitewashing of the realities of the British position throughout the years. We think of ourselves as too smart to get screwed over by bigger players, yet there are huge numbers of examples of this happening.they just get brushed off and the example you have given as a benefit of being solo is nothing of the sort in reality.

Stepping away from the EU is a terrible retrograde step that will haunt us for decades. History will be the judge of it eventually, but I suspect it will be categorised as one of the worst decisions a nation state has made about it's global position.

We will have to agree to disagree on that.We are in various multinational bodies for cooperative reasons, being not in the EU hasnt stopped that. Interestingly we may not have to wait for a long time to find out if leaving the EU was a good idea. I give it less than 5 years. And it will turn out to have been a damn good idea.

[Slagathore]

markyb_lcy said:

Apologies to VS, I do think I may have got this wrong. I'd convinced myself I'd read a news report that statistics were being withheld, however upon searching for them, they do in fact exist...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-tes...

I'm not sure what happened there!

Genuine question - why didn't you look for them before you posted?

This is what boggles me a bit, you were happy to have a dig, but didn't even do any checking to see if what you were having a dig about was actually true?

It really proves the point that a few of us have been making that people are so desperate to be negative about the government, they don't actually check or verify anything before they post. Almost as in the desperation to make the point, the need to actually be correct gets bypassed.

At least, unlike others, you put your hand up and corrected it, which is partly why I'm hoping you won't take my question the wrong way. It's not intended to be rude, I'm just genuinely curious.