Boris Johnson- Prime Minister (Vol. 4)
Discussion
JagLover said:
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Yes it's absolutely definitely just that 
Its not just thatBut if you look at the popularity charts the fall started the moment Boris gave his TV address setting out his timetable, and steps, for getting back to normal.
Many ignorant people out there in the general population who don't see it as an issue that we are destroying the economy and incurring massive debts.
The measure of the government's success should be how well it balances combating the virus with preserving the economy. Short term popularity is meaningless and would in any case go once the public wakes up to the fact we are in a new great depression.
Government's don't tend to be that popular when there are 4-5 million unemployed.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 1st June 17:12
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 1st June 17:12
JagLover said:
Its not just that
But if you look at the popularity charts the fall started the moment Boris gave his TV address setting out his timetable, and steps, for getting back to normal.
Off the top of your head do you think anything else might have happened recently that might have had an impact on many peoples opinion of the Government?But if you look at the popularity charts the fall started the moment Boris gave his TV address setting out his timetable, and steps, for getting back to normal.
Anything at all leap to mind....?
El stovey said:
768 said:
The Chinese are stoked with their government's handling of it and the French livid with theirs, how unexpected.
I noted there was still a 10 point lead over Labour on the Westminster voting intention poll on Saturday. Remarkable really.
Top one’s Vietnam, China’s not on the list. I noted there was still a 10 point lead over Labour on the Westminster voting intention poll on Saturday. Remarkable really.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Off the top of your head do you think anything else might have happened recently that might have had an impact on many peoples opinion of the Government?
Anything at all leap to mind....?
El Stovey just posted the chart. The decline started well before the Cummings affair. Anything at all leap to mind....?
It is easy to be popular when you are paying nine million people to sit in their gardens and validating the terrors of most of the rest.
JagLover said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Off the top of your head do you think anything else might have happened recently that might have had an impact on many peoples opinion of the Government?
Anything at all leap to mind....?
El Stovey just posted the chart. The decline started well before the Cummings affair. Anything at all leap to mind....?
It is easy to be popular when you are paying nine million people to sit in their gardens and validating the terrors of most of the rest.
Popularity was falling from mid April when nine million were sitting in their gardens, so maybe not that easy to be popular.
First poll after Boris laid out his plans was 14 May here.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 1st June 17:20
JagLover said:
El Stovey just posted the chart. The decline started well before the Cummings affair.
It is easy to be popular when you are paying nine million people to sit in their gardens and validating the terrors of most of the rest.
And the decline is all down to people preferring to be paid to sit on their arses.It is easy to be popular when you are paying nine million people to sit in their gardens and validating the terrors of most of the rest.
Nothing else.
I'm sure you're right
El stovey said:
That's because the people are out of touch with the mood of the people.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:JagLover said:
The fall in the government's popularity started the moment Boris laid out his timetable for getting back to normal. There was a big chunk of the public who thought they could sit around in their gardens until a vaccine came along and have been disgruntled to be disabused of that notion.
Short term "Popularity" in that case could only be bought at the expense of destroying the economy.
Yes it's absolutely definitely just that Short term "Popularity" in that case could only be bought at the expense of destroying the economy.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:JagLover said:
Its not just that
But if you look at the popularity charts the fall started the moment Boris gave his TV address setting out his timetable, and steps, for getting back to normal.
Off the top of your head do you think anything else might have happened recently that might have had an impact on many peoples opinion of the Government?But if you look at the popularity charts the fall started the moment Boris gave his TV address setting out his timetable, and steps, for getting back to normal.
Anything at all leap to mind....?
El stovey said:
Fair enough it was falling before he made that announcement. After that point though there then followed a fairly rapid further ten point fall though before the Cummings affair erupted. It has been suggested by many that the government swung from mitigation to suppression because they were too frightened of the media and public reaction to do otherwise. Sweden stayed the course, and followed rational policies, and we had to give in to panic and hysteria, because otherwise the government would take too large a hit in terms of popularity.
The obvious counter argument to that is that they followed the suggestions of their scientists, including Ferguson with his dodgy modelling, and got hammered by the media anyway (before the Cummings affair). Meanwhile the public bought into the fear and terror far more because it was reinforced by the government.
An obvious example of that is how 50% of eligible primary school children did not return to school today. Coronavirus presents almost no threat to primary school children. If parents are holding them back from school due to it why did they not do so for season Flu which is far more dangerous to children?
Maybe if they had followed a more rational path they would be plumbing new deaths of unpopularity or perhaps, if the public had been talked to like adults, they would have realised we couldn't destroy the economy due to a virus that is a negligible risk to the working age population.
In any case, six months to a year from now, we are not going to be talking about R numbers or numbers infected IMO but depression and unemployment.
I don't rate the chances of this going 'well' for the government in any circumstances.
Going back is going to be chaotic. All in or all out is easy. Some of you go in a little bit is going to be a mess.
Once you have got people in, there will almost certainly be a second spike.
After that, people will start to realise just how hard the economy (and their jobs) have been hit.
Then we'll get a combination people wondering what all the fuss was about (because they're not dead) and wondering why the government didn't do more (because their friends or relatives are dead).
Note (for the hard of thinking) this is not an 'excuse' for the government. It's just the grim reality that lockdown is a state of blissful ignorance before the storm hits. It's going to be the same across the world.
Yes, the government can screw it up more, or whatever your political expectations are - but no matter how perfectly they handle this, there will still be long term repercussions, damage and blame (some accurate, some not - but people will want to ascribe blame even where there is none).
Going back is going to be chaotic. All in or all out is easy. Some of you go in a little bit is going to be a mess.
Once you have got people in, there will almost certainly be a second spike.
After that, people will start to realise just how hard the economy (and their jobs) have been hit.
Then we'll get a combination people wondering what all the fuss was about (because they're not dead) and wondering why the government didn't do more (because their friends or relatives are dead).
Note (for the hard of thinking) this is not an 'excuse' for the government. It's just the grim reality that lockdown is a state of blissful ignorance before the storm hits. It's going to be the same across the world.
Yes, the government can screw it up more, or whatever your political expectations are - but no matter how perfectly they handle this, there will still be long term repercussions, damage and blame (some accurate, some not - but people will want to ascribe blame even where there is none).
This one is political I guess.
Rees-Mogg's plans for MPs to vote in person 'beyond a farce'
What happened to the "common sense" Mogg is famed for (and which pretty much marked the last time he was let out in public)?
Rees-Mogg's plans for MPs to vote in person 'beyond a farce'
What happened to the "common sense" Mogg is famed for (and which pretty much marked the last time he was let out in public)?
mx5nut said:
El stovey said:
That's because the people are out of touch with the mood of the people.bhstewie said:
hstewie said: This one is political I guess.
Rees-Mogg's plans for MPs to vote in person 'beyond a farce'
What happened to the "common sense" Mogg is famed for (and which pretty much marked the last time he was let out in public)?
I get your point regarding WFH etc but Rees-Mogg has always had a strong sense of fairness and seems to have passionate views about MPs staying home whilst others go back to work. Rees-Mogg's plans for MPs to vote in person 'beyond a farce'
What happened to the "common sense" Mogg is famed for (and which pretty much marked the last time he was let out in public)?
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