Black Lives Matter - Who are they?

[Dont Panic]

Gadgetmac said:

So that's a "No" then. Thought so

Put 10K up if youre so sure, I could do with a holiday.

[Gadgetmac]

Dont Panic said:

Gadgetmac said:

So that's a "No" then. Thought so

Put 10K up if youre so sure, I could do with a holiday.

You asked for bet and I offered one. Now you make silly demands in order to backtrack. Obvious bluff is obvious

[bitchstewie]

Good to know you can count on David Starkey to deliver.

David Starkey widely criticised for 'slavery was not genocide' remarks

Christ.

[biggbn]

bhstewie said:

Good to know you can count on David Starkey to deliver.

David Starkey widely criticised for 'slavery was not genocide' remarks

Christ.

What an idiot. He is entitled to his view, of course he is, but he could have chosen to express it a tad more sympathetically.

[Dont like rolls]

What a tit.

It does leave open the question of why use "Genocide" and not "Slavery" to describe slavery.

Am I wrong (if so why) but is not slavery carried out to get slaves and is not genocide carried out to kill.

genocide
/ˈdʒɛnəsʌɪd/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: genocide; plural noun: genocides

the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group.


slavery
/ˈsleɪv(ə)ri/

noun: slavery

the practice or system of owning slaves.

[gooner1]

Dont like rolls said:

What a tit.

It does leave open the question of why use "Genocide" and not "Slavery" to describe slavery.

Am I wrong (if so why) but is not slavery carried out to get slaves and is not genocide carried out to kill.

genocide
/?d??n?s??d/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: genocide; plural noun: genocides

the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group.


slavery
/?sle?v(?)ri/

noun: slavery

the practice or system of owning slaves.

Technically correct, tactically fking stupid.

[skwdenyer]

biggbn said:

bhstewie said:

Good to know you can count on David Starkey to deliver.

David Starkey widely criticised for 'slavery was not genocide' remarks

Christ.

What an idiot. He is entitled to his view, of course he is, but he could have chosen to express it a tad more sympathetically.

David Starkey has a brand to protect; he hadn't been in the new in *weeks*

[Dont like rolls]

gooner1 said:

Dont like rolls said:

What a tit.

It does leave open the question of why use "Genocide" and not "Slavery" to describe slavery.

Am I wrong (if so why) but is not slavery carried out to get slaves and is not genocide carried out to kill.

genocide
/?d??n?s??d/
Learn to pronounce
noun
noun: genocide; plural noun: genocides

the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular nation or ethnic group.


slavery
/?sle?v(?)ri/

noun: slavery

the practice or system of owning slaves.

Technically correct, tactically fking stupid.

No disagreement there.

Do people think using Genocide makes the African Slave Trade sound worse than it was ? Why use the wrong word when both are abhorrent and are defined already ?

Note: He is/Was a total buffoon and rather unpleasant (to say the least) with the rest of his words.

[Big Al.]

Guy's if you can't keep this thread on topic it will be closed.

[biggbn]

biggbn said:

R Mutt said:

biggbn said:

I can understand how, and why, groups like BLM end up with an inexorable drift towards Marxism as a theory for social and cultural development. Racism is only part of the problem and I'm sure their thinking is that existing attitudes are firmly entrenched in the existing class system. Black Americans historically have been employed in low paid, low skill jobs and although things are vastly better now, the class system can still be perceived as a problem. Like prostitution, slavery can be seen as an almost caricatured, but all to real, manifestation of Marx' theory of Capital, the means of production being owned, exploited and discarded by an elite ruling class. This simplified tale is an easy sell to any representative of a sinned against minority , and an easy 'product' to 'sell' on...now there is some ironic language in a thread discussing Marxism...one can stretch this to the ultimate irony, we now have the commodification and fetishisation of Marxism!!

I am not a traditional Marxist, a blind ideologue who clings to an outdated concept. Capital is strictly anchored in its time and it was a relevant and hugely influential work. I do agree with it as a humanistic emancipatory philosophical work, MINUS the call for violent uprising. I can see how blurring the lines that divide us would bring about a more inclusive society, so yes, i can see why Marxism has become a one size fits all panacea for the ills of the downtrodden. I also wonder how many of these Marxists have read, studied or critiqued any of Marx work or do they just see it as a badge of convenience that marks, no pun intended, them out as being actively anti racism...which is kinda where we came in. Marxism and BLM have become slogans with which to simultaneously signal a belonging to a cause and beat said cause with, which is a shame as both started out with humanistic aims.

Edited by biggbn on Thursday 2nd July 12:40

Good post. Except you state that the manifesto of BLM 'the political group' stems from the view that capitalism facilitates oppression.

While BLM 'the political group' have now been disavowed by the vast majority of posters here and businesses alike, many have cited the racism intrinsic to society the cause of oppression, with analysis going no deeper than attributing this to racism. Unfortunately, to ask how the system itself could be racist, was considering condoning the oppression, so I would like to revisit that and see how I can support the system without endorsing oppression and how people can oppose the racist system without endorsing Communism.

Edited by R Mutt on Thursday 2nd July 13:12

Thanks. I was just thinking aloud as it were, I have no idea about the manifesto of the BLM political group, I was just trying to piece together why such groups might be drawn towards Marxism.

I think it was around here we left off?

[Dont like rolls]

biggbn said:

biggbn said:

R Mutt said:

biggbn said:

I was just trying to piece together why such groups might be drawn towards Marxism.

I think it was around here we left off?

I think they mostly are being "shuffled" towards it by being ignorant and unaware of what it even is in reality.
There are some clever types sowing great division....

[i4got]

It seems as if more and more people have some round to the original posters viewpoint that, albeit with a message that seems relatively benign and unarguable, the organisation itself has less overt aims that make them a less than desirable organisation to be throwing your full support behind.

Even the BBC and former advocates like the FA now seem to moving to that stance.

Is there anything left to argue about on the thread? Could this be a first for PH where a thread finally reaches some kind of unanimity?

[R Mutt]

i4got said:

It seems as if more and more people have some round to the original posters viewpoint that, albeit with a message that seems relatively benign and unarguable, the organisation itself has less overt aims that make them a less than desirable organisation to be throwing your full support behind.

Even the BBC and former advocates like the FA now seem to moving to that stance.

Is there anything left to argue about on the thread? Could this be a first for PH where a thread finally reaches some kind of unanimity?

Well on the basis of the thousand posts it took to arrive at the position of no one agreeing with Marxism from the original question of whether BLM are Marxists I'd say there are many arguments between that have gone unresolved.

I for one would like to know where social justice and absolute equality becomes communism. Surely a fine line there while impossible to have people achieve income in commensurate with their full potential without capitalism.

Further, the blanket of social justice causes which seem closely linked to an opposition to capitalism.

Then we have the black experience and the roots of deprivation which was shut down by the racism argument.

So no, this thread was a bit of a circus really and I'm quite surprised all those arguing a position so vehemently disappeared to be replaced by another set of posters with another argument.

Yes in one sense it has gone fill circle on the BLM Marxism debate which is something. I presume some posters dropped out when they realised BLM was more than just a slogan but not before the accusations thrown at BLM's detractors.

[Gadgetmac]

Big Al. said:

Guy's if you can't keep this thread on topic it will be closed.

Al, in the interests of fairness, can you please go over to the Climate Change Science Thread and issue the same warning.

Cheers.

[anonymous-user]

R Mutt said:

Well on the basis of the thousand posts it took to arrive at the position of no one agreeing with Marxism from the original question of whether BLM are Marxists I'd say there are many arguments between that have gone unresolved.

I for one would like to know where social justice and absolute equality becomes communism. Surely a fine line there while impossible to have people achieve income in commensurate with their full potential without capitalism.

Further, the blanket of social justice causes which seem closely linked to an opposition to capitalism.

Then we have the black experience and the roots of deprivation which was shut down by the racism argument.

So no, this thread was a bit of a circus really and I'm quite surprised all those arguing a position so vehemently disappeared to be replaced by another set of posters with another argument.

Yes in one sense it has gone fill circle on the BLM Marxism debate which is something. I presume some posters dropped out when they realised BLM was more than just a slogan but not before the accusations thrown at BLM's detractors.

Aren’t you against BLM the message and the slogan and the moment I.e. the whole lot though? Not just the movement. I think that’s why you get so much flack.

You seem like the discussion is unresolved despite people saying they separated the movement from the slogan because you think the slogan is indicative of something you’re not happy about too?

Obviously you’re against the movement but thinking about the slogan on its own for a minute, do you support/don’t care/ or are against the slogan?

[gooner1]

Gadgetmac said:

Big Al. said:

Guy's if you can't keep this thread on topic it will be closed.

Al, in the interests of fairness, can you please go over to the Climate Change Science Thread and issue the same warning.

Cheers.

[/Big Al. said:
Guy's if you can't keep this thread on topic it will be closed [/guote]

[ddom]

El stovey said:

Aren’t you against BLM the message and the slogan and the moment I.e. the whole lot though? Not just the movement. I think that’s why you get so much flack.

You seem like the discussion is unresolved despite people saying they separated the movement from the slogan because you think the slogan is indicative of something you’re not happy about too?

Obviously you’re against the movement but thinking about the slogan on its own for a minute, do you support/don’t care/ or are against the slogan?

It’s a loaded question though. Would you really say someone is a racist if he doesn’t believe at all in anything the BLM ‘movement’ stands for?

I mean, is Kim Jong Un ‘ok’ because he likes basketball?

[R Mutt]

El stovey said:

R Mutt said:

Well on the basis of the thousand posts it took to arrive at the position of no one agreeing with Marxism from the original question of whether BLM are Marxists I'd say there are many arguments between that have gone unresolved.

I for one would like to know where social justice and absolute equality becomes communism. Surely a fine line there while impossible to have people achieve income in commensurate with their full potential without capitalism.

Further, the blanket of social justice causes which seem closely linked to an opposition to capitalism.

Then we have the black experience and the roots of deprivation which was shut down by the racism argument.

So no, this thread was a bit of a circus really and I'm quite surprised all those arguing a position so vehemently disappeared to be replaced by another set of posters with another argument.

Yes in one sense it has gone fill circle on the BLM Marxism debate which is something. I presume some posters dropped out when they realised BLM was more than just a slogan but not before the accusations thrown at BLM's detractors.

Aren’t you against BLM the message and the slogan and the moment I.e. the whole lot though? Not just the movement. I think that’s why you get so much flack.

You seem like the discussion is unresolved despite people saying they separated the movement from the slogan because you think the slogan is indicative of something you’re not happy about too?

Obviously you’re against the movement but thinking about the slogan on its own for a minute, do you support/don’t care/ or are against the slogan?

Sorry what is the message again? The one that's not the one about bringing down the oppressive white patriarchy.

It seems you're asking if I want black people dead because I wish to take more nuanced view of equality, away from the idea that everything can be explained by racism. Worryingly the notion that it's the result of capitalism actually makes more sense. I'm not sure why we're still doing this charade as in every one of my posts I have stated whether I am referring to BLM 'the political group' or BLM 'the slogan' yet you're still intentionally blurring the 2.

To be precise, I start caring when someone is killed or beaten, which I believe is what this is all about, and stop caring at 'white privilege' 'white silence is violence' etc which supporters of BLM 'the slogan' still have in their windows.

Edited by R Mutt on Friday 3rd July 15:25

[gooner1]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-5327...


Brought it on himself.

[Kessler]

wow...is there no end to the lunacy?!?

Change Columbus, Ohio to Flavortown

https://www.change.org/p/mayor-ginther-columbus-ci...

Of course, opposing this would equate to supporting white supremacy, so I can see this happening pretty quickly. Even republicans are capitulating to the woke mob. Mt Rushmore is their next target so will have to go as well. What a great future they are paving where the woke mob is in charge - should anyone challenge them, they will cut opponents down with charges of racism. Race and skin colour will be in the spotlight like never before and will dictate the content of entertainment. Less freedom and more racial tension - brilliant...