Black Lives Matter - Who are they?

[mrporsche]

mrporsche said:

"The problem" is that white people developed medicine for white people ?

Are there stats showing that black people living in predominantly black countries do not appear to suffer the same issues as they believe they see in Western Europe ?

UK 13.8 deaths per 100,000 births, 4 times that would be 56 for black women

Nigeria 800
Botswana 380
Ghana 760
Tanzania 578
Jamaica 80

Clearly the facilities in each country have a significant role to play, but whatever the number in the UK stats are still looking good..

[LittleBlueCar]

mrporsche said:

LittleBlueCar said:

It comes from a general mis-trust of the medical establishment in this country. The problem is that western medicine has progressed with a bias towards white people. I'm not going to get into the reasons why but it's not hard to realise that medical techniques, procedures, research etc. has predominantly been progressed by white people and also tested on white people.

There was a report earlier this year that concluded that one of the reasons so many black people were dying in hospital with Covid was because a pulse oximeter is more likely to give a false reading when used on darker skin. This in turn led hospital staff to believe that a patient's oxygen levels were okay when in actual fact they were dangerously low.

You also only have to see the fact that black women are 4 times more likely to die during childbirth to understand why a community may be skeptical of the vaccine when many of the public (regardless of race) believe it has been rushed and untested.

Edited by LittleBlueCar on Thursday 21st January 08:55

"The problem" is that white people developed medicine for white people ?

Are there stats showing that black people living in predominantly black countries do not appear to suffer the same issues as they believe they see in Western Europe ?

They do suffer the same issues because modern medicine was developed by the more developed nations which are predominantly white. It's not hard to see why black people have been neglected as medicine progressed when the civil rights movement was only in the 60s and it's only been 20 years since the end of the apartheid in South Africa for example.


https://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/31/opinion/31washi...

[mrporsche]

LittleBlueCar said:

mrporsche said:

LittleBlueCar said:

It comes from a general mis-trust of the medical establishment in this country. The problem is that western medicine has progressed with a bias towards white people. I'm not going to get into the reasons why but it's not hard to realise that medical techniques, procedures, research etc. has predominantly been progressed by white people and also tested on white people.

There was a report earlier this year that concluded that one of the reasons so many black people were dying in hospital with Covid was because a pulse oximeter is more likely to give a false reading when used on darker skin. This in turn led hospital staff to believe that a patient's oxygen levels were okay when in actual fact they were dangerously low.

You also only have to see the fact that black women are 4 times more likely to die during childbirth to understand why a community may be skeptical of the vaccine when many of the public (regardless of race) believe it has been rushed and untested.

Edited by LittleBlueCar on Thursday 21st January 08:55

"The problem" is that white people developed medicine for white people ?

Are there stats showing that black people living in predominantly black countries do not appear to suffer the same issues as they believe they see in Western Europe ?

They do suffer the same issues because modern medicine was developed by the more developed nations which are predominantly white. It's not hard to see why black people have been neglected as medicine progressed when the civil rights movement was only in the 60s and it's only been 20 years since the end of the apartheid in South Africa for example.


https://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/31/opinion/31washi...

There is nothing to stop Black countries developing their own medicines / Medical Science ??

You don't think there haven't been scandals and mistakes in Western Countries ?

[LittleBlueCar]

mrporsche said:

LittleBlueCar said:

mrporsche said:

LittleBlueCar said:

It comes from a general mis-trust of the medical establishment in this country. The problem is that western medicine has progressed with a bias towards white people. I'm not going to get into the reasons why but it's not hard to realise that medical techniques, procedures, research etc. has predominantly been progressed by white people and also tested on white people.

There was a report earlier this year that concluded that one of the reasons so many black people were dying in hospital with Covid was because a pulse oximeter is more likely to give a false reading when used on darker skin. This in turn led hospital staff to believe that a patient's oxygen levels were okay when in actual fact they were dangerously low.

You also only have to see the fact that black women are 4 times more likely to die during childbirth to understand why a community may be skeptical of the vaccine when many of the public (regardless of race) believe it has been rushed and untested.

Edited by LittleBlueCar on Thursday 21st January 08:55

"The problem" is that white people developed medicine for white people ?

Are there stats showing that black people living in predominantly black countries do not appear to suffer the same issues as they believe they see in Western Europe ?

They do suffer the same issues because modern medicine was developed by the more developed nations which are predominantly white. It's not hard to see why black people have been neglected as medicine progressed when the civil rights movement was only in the 60s and it's only been 20 years since the end of the apartheid in South Africa for example.


https://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/31/opinion/31washi...

There is nothing to stop Black countries developing their own medicines / Medical Science ??

You don't think there haven't been scandals and mistakes in Western Countries ?

Ummm well they were under colonial rule for 100s of years and they've not had the benefit of having an economy built on slavery. So yeah there is something stopping them.

Go read some history books, I will not be engaging with you further.

[InitialDave]

mrporsche said:

UK 13.8 deaths per 100,000 births, 4 times that would be 56 for black women

Nigeria 800
Botswana 380
Ghana 760
Tanzania 578
Jamaica 80

Clearly the facilities in each country have a significant role to play, but whatever the number in the UK stats are still looking good..

Yes, we're better overall, but if there's such a huge difference in how different groups fare within our better overall system, that should be addressed.

As I understand it, susceptibility to blood clot/thrombosis issues is a really big part of it, and that accounts for a lot of the deaths?

[mrporsche]

LittleBlueCar said:

Ummm well they were under colonial rule for 100s of years and they've not had the benefit of having an economy built on slavery. So yeah there is something stopping them.

Go read some history books, I will not be engaging with you further.

That old nonsense.

The Western Economies were not built on slavery, there were far far more developed before they even "discovered Africa".

[ReallyReallyGood]

InitialDave said:

Yes, we're better overall, but if there's such a huge difference in how different groups fare within our better overall system, that should be addressed.

As I understand it, susceptibility to blood clot/thrombosis issues is a really big part of it, and that accounts for a lot of the deaths?

Exactly, the stats without any context are dangerous. A quick google tells me black mothers are at greater risk of preeclampsia and other issues so to just paint this statistical difference as racial bias is disingenuous at best.

[A Winner Is You]

mrporsche said:

LittleBlueCar said:

Ummm well they were under colonial rule for 100s of years and they've not had the benefit of having an economy built on slavery. So yeah there is something stopping them.

Go read some history books, I will not be engaging with you further.

That old nonsense.

The Western Economies were not built on slavery, there were far far more developed before they even "discovered Africa".

African societies were building their economies on slavery long before the white man arrived, just like everywhere else in the world.

[JagLover]

LittleBlueCar said:

People with darker skin do absorb less UV light through their skin which helps with the synthesis of vitamin D but again I think its more evidence of western medicine and an establishment neglecting a community of people I.e. vitamin d deficiency is not a problem for the majority of (white)people so we don't need to worry about it.

Vitamin D deficiency is indeed a problem for the majority white population at this latitude so don't know where you got that idea from.

61% of the population have levels considered "insufficient" and 22% are deficient.

In terms of the BAME they are of course more at risk, but the lowest levels are to be found in South Asian women so lifestyle and diet are also of critical importance rather than simply degree of skin pigmentation.

https://www.endocrinology.org/endocrinologist/120-...

Edited by JagLover on Thursday 21st January 10:19

[mrporsche]

JagLover said:

Vitamin D deficiency is indeed a problem for the majority white population at this latitude so don't know where you got that idea from.

61% of the population have levels considered "insufficient" and 22% are deficient.

In terms of the BAME they are of course more at risk, but the lowest levels are to be found in South Asian women so lifestyle and diet are also of critical importance rather than degree of skin pigmentation.

https://www.endocrinology.org/endocrinologist/120-...

People moving from a traditional hot climate with all the positives that brings moving to a colder climate is going to bring some health issues. As does covering your body in long dark clothing you tend not to be exposed to the Sun as we don't get that much here....

[GroundZero]

A Winner Is You said:

mrporsche said:

LittleBlueCar said:

Ummm well they were under colonial rule for 100s of years and they've not had the benefit of having an economy built on slavery. So yeah there is something stopping them.

Go read some history books, I will not be engaging with you further.

That old nonsense.

The Western Economies were not built on slavery, there were far far more developed before they even "discovered Africa".

African societies were building their economies on slavery long before the white man arrived, just like everywhere else in the world.

Indeed. But don't let facts stand in the way of the "institutional racism" narrative that cultural marxists rely on though.

[LittleBlueCar]

mrporsche said:

LittleBlueCar said:

Ummm well they were under colonial rule for 100s of years and they've not had the benefit of having an economy built on slavery. So yeah there is something stopping them.

Go read some history books, I will not be engaging with you further.

That old nonsense.

The Western Economies were not built on slavery, there were far far more developed before they even "discovered Africa".

It's not nonsense when it's true. I have no ulterior motive, it's just historical fact that the UK and the USA benefited massively from the slave trade.

Look at this pretty little graph I found. See how much the UK's GDP grows at around the same time as the slave trade?




I always wonder why people like you are so annoyed and angry about people wanting to be treated and represented the same as everyone else? I mean what impact does it have on your life if the UK addresses it's disproportionately in black deaths during child birth for example? Why is it a bad thing if we stop people needlessly dying during childbirth?

[InitialDave]

ReallyReallyGood said:

Exactly, the stats without any context are dangerous. A quick google tells me black mothers are at greater risk of preeclampsia and other issues so to just paint this statistical difference as racial bias is disingenuous at best.

Well, I'm not going to discount it as a factor, but I don't have the background to know whether there are issues - are there checks that could pick this up at antenatal appointments, but which aren't normally applied as it's not "usually" relevant to the statistically average (i.e. white) pregnancy? Should we add those checks as standard?

I think it's that sort of stuff that's what is meant when people talk about racial bias in medicine, it's not some evil establishment attitude toward black people. It's really just unfortunate blindspots over medical issues that disproportionately affect certain ethnicities.

[A Winner Is You]

LittleBlueCar said:

It's not nonsense when it's true. I have no ulterior motive, it's just historical fact that the UK and the USA benefited massively from the slave trade.

Look at this pretty little graph I found. See how much the UK's GDP grows at around the same time as the slave trade?




I always wonder why people like you are so annoyed and angry about people wanting to be treated and represented the same as everyone else? I mean what impact does it have on your life if the UK addresses it's disproportionately in black deaths during child birth for example? Why is it a bad thing if we stop people needlessly dying during childbirth?

Serfdom was practised in Britain until around the end of the 12th century, so shouldn't the economy have been growing in those times?

[andy_s]

LittleBlueCar said:

It's not nonsense when it's true. I have no ulterior motive, it's just historical fact that the UK and the USA benefited massively from the slave trade.

Look at this pretty little graph I found. See how much the UK's GDP grows at around the same time as the slave trade?




I always wonder why people like you are so annoyed and angry about people wanting to be treated and represented the same as everyone else? I mean what impact does it have on your life if the UK addresses it's disproportionately in black deaths during child birth for example? Why is it a bad thing if we stop people needlessly dying during childbirth?

If the UK benefitted from the slave trade then every citizen now, irrespective of colour, will be benefitting from it, including you.

[LittleBlueCar]

Wow Pistonheads has become a cesspool of Ignorant racist bigots, I'm ouuut. Like I said I have no ulterior motive, I just wanted to contribute to a topic with a different perspective and the backlash and inability/refusal to see things from a different view is disgusting.

The Marx argument is retarded to anybody who knows anything about history, I suggest you stop using it because Facebook thinks it's an offensive slur.

[motco]

mrporsche said:

mrporsche said:

"The problem" is that white people developed medicine for white people ?

Are there stats showing that black people living in predominantly black countries do not appear to suffer the same issues as they believe they see in Western Europe ?

UK 13.8 deaths per 100,000 births, 4 times that would be 56 for black women

Nigeria 800
Botswana 380
Ghana 760
Tanzania 578
Jamaica 80

Clearly the facilities in each country have a significant role to play, but whatever the number in the UK stats are still looking good..

There was a discussion in the media a few months ago about one possible reason for black women's higher mortality at birthing, and that is a tendency to narrow birth canals. Here as a quickly found example.

[GroundZero]

LittleBlueCar said:

Wow Pistonheads has become a cesspool of Ignorant racist bigots,..

..says the ignorant racist bigot himself.

[andy_s]

LittleBlueCar said:

Wow Pistonheads has become a cesspool of Ignorant racist bigots, I'm ouuut. Like I said I have no ulterior motive, I just wanted to contribute to a topic with a different perspective and the backlash and inability/refusal to see things from a different view is disgusting.

The Marx argument is retarded to anybody who knows anything about history, I suggest you stop using it because Facebook thinks it's an offensive slur.

A different perspective is welcome, but this stupid name calling business is quite divisive...

[anonymous-user]

There is no way big pharma would exclude any source of potential income