CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 3)
Discussion
Is it just me or are the latest round of rules and regulations totally confusing and in some cases stupid?
England is different to Wales and Scotland and NI.
In Scotland, from the 10th July I have heard, but struggle to find definitive guidelines as I gave up watching every TV News programme that from the 10th July everyone must wear a mask in a shop. Yet cases numbers have been reducing over the last few weeks and up to now we can shop in the local supermarkets mask free and have been since CV19 was first highlighted. So why now? Some people are going to be exempt apparently but who?
Some folk have been wearing masks from the outset others seem to have total disregard for even a 1metre rule. My son was approached by an elderly lady this morning in the local supermarket. She wanted to tell him something, I guess innocently, about how he was helping me but she placed her face within about 300mm of his ear. Now she was the most vulnerable person in this occasion but I felt it necessary to intervene. Is she likely to wear a mask? Unlikely.
Whilst I feel very sad for those who have lost friends and relatives due to this virus, is it not time to rethink the situation nationally?
It's guess we cannot rely of Common Sense after the street protests and beach parties over the last few weeks but we now have an inrush of tourists into other areas of the UNITED Kingdom, many of these will be ignoring the rules all together, or trying to work to their own area rules or their own version of them. A friend in the Scottish Isles had American tourists looking for B&B last week.
When this pandemic first arose I believed Government were trying their best to control the virus spread. Now I think they are more interested in their own political bias. Sturgeon making her own rules, Boris making it up as he goes along, Starmer trying to score points Cummings, well we all know about him as well as the Scottish Health Minister and various others who believe the rules don't apply to them.
It's becoming yet another British Political Farce.
England is different to Wales and Scotland and NI.
In Scotland, from the 10th July I have heard, but struggle to find definitive guidelines as I gave up watching every TV News programme that from the 10th July everyone must wear a mask in a shop. Yet cases numbers have been reducing over the last few weeks and up to now we can shop in the local supermarkets mask free and have been since CV19 was first highlighted. So why now? Some people are going to be exempt apparently but who?
Some folk have been wearing masks from the outset others seem to have total disregard for even a 1metre rule. My son was approached by an elderly lady this morning in the local supermarket. She wanted to tell him something, I guess innocently, about how he was helping me but she placed her face within about 300mm of his ear. Now she was the most vulnerable person in this occasion but I felt it necessary to intervene. Is she likely to wear a mask? Unlikely.
Whilst I feel very sad for those who have lost friends and relatives due to this virus, is it not time to rethink the situation nationally?
It's guess we cannot rely of Common Sense after the street protests and beach parties over the last few weeks but we now have an inrush of tourists into other areas of the UNITED Kingdom, many of these will be ignoring the rules all together, or trying to work to their own area rules or their own version of them. A friend in the Scottish Isles had American tourists looking for B&B last week.
When this pandemic first arose I believed Government were trying their best to control the virus spread. Now I think they are more interested in their own political bias. Sturgeon making her own rules, Boris making it up as he goes along, Starmer trying to score points Cummings, well we all know about him as well as the Scottish Health Minister and various others who believe the rules don't apply to them.
It's becoming yet another British Political Farce.
Skyedriver said:
Is it just me or are the latest round of rules and regulations totally confusing and in some cases stupid?
You're not wrong there. The Johnson govt doesn't know if it's Arthur or Martha at the moment. Their messages are confused, contradictory and in some cases, as you so rightly pointed out, pants on head retarded.
This was bound to happen as soon as the govt thought that they could get away with not listening to the NHS.
What they aren't doing is a systematic conspiracy to make everyone compliant. That is the ramblings of some conspiracy theorising nutbar who won't leave their front garden unless coated in tin foil. (After all, it's the fluride in the water that is meant to still our subversive thoughts).
captain_cynic said:
sambucket said:
Yes, it's all looking very encouraging that restaurants with table service can go back to normal relatively quickly. The larger question mark is over what makes english pubs great, cosy crowds, bar propping etc. Looking at the news this morning and all the repellent measures in place, maybe we won't find out for a while yet. Will there be lockins etc though?
USA seems to think bars are the main threat, and is upping it's game at communicating this risk to people. Note bars are number 1 risk on this table, separate to restaurants a couple of pegs down.
Quite. USA seems to think bars are the main threat, and is upping it's game at communicating this risk to people. Note bars are number 1 risk on this table, separate to restaurants a couple of pegs down.
Edited by sambucket on Saturday 4th July 08:57
A very encouraging sign because we've managed to control the virus to the point where we can begin to relax restrictions.
With the US, they didn't take any steps to control the virus. The US is reporting 50,000 new infections a day. Any public gathering is likely to spread infections. Not just bars.
Honestly after seeing the how the US progressed I can't believe anyone still thinks the lockdown was a bad idea. If anything, the fact the UK is opening up again demonstrated it was the right thing to do. I strongly suspect that the US states and cities will be introducing lockdowns as soon as Monday, I think most places just didn't want to do it before the 4th of July.
The UK is in a good spot for recovery because a lot of UK workers could work from home, many of them full time. Well that is until the next crisis hits.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8471421/M...
followed up with this article:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/reuters/article-...
The graphs seem to suggest that perhaps a US 'second wave' (and the large initial impact on Italy) is more about a change in transmissibility of the virus than lockdown (or lack of it) having an effect?:
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/06/30/03/2803953...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8471421/M...
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/06/30/03/2803953...
MX5Biologist said:
What do you think killed him?
Dementia. Possible some contribution from a respiratory virus, but that could easily be flu or even a cold. You have to be realistic about what anyone can say with confidence without a test or examination.
Edited by ORD on Saturday 4th July 16:02
MDMetal said:
At no point in any of this have people actually thought of the children. That's what's really sad, we've burdened them with debt stress and a lack of care and attention for pretty much zero reason.
Kids don’t vote and have no voice in the media. They also don’t understand when they’re being harmed.They’re irrelevant. And they’ve been let down so extremely badly.
MDMetal said:
At no point in any of this have people actually thought of the children. That's what's really sad, we've burdened them with debt stress and a lack of care and attention for pretty much zero reason.
Some of us have been thinking of them. I did a download from our CPOMS* system on Friday, and we've made 16,004 welfare calls since March 23, of which 10,794** resulted in a conversation with the relevant child. We have also made 818 home visits. Now yes, we won't be able to pick up every issue, but we do what we can.- Child Protection Monitoring System
- that figure has been declining a lot recently, as the contact number we have is a parent's mobile, and they're more often now at work.
sambucket said:
Would you wear a mask for 2 months, if you had confidence it would the increase the odds of schools coming back full-time by 10%?
No f
king way!! I've used all sorts of masks, either dealing with asbestos, silica dust, 2 pack spray paint, systemic herbicides, etc etc. Masks are horrid things used for horrid substances. For the poxy bat-death-virus? What on earth is the point, given the statistical chance of getting it, let alone dying from it.Schools should never have closed in the first place.
sambucket said:
A purely hypothetical question.
Would you wear a mask for 2 months, if you had good confidence it would the increase the odds of schools coming back full-time by 10%?
Would you pat your head 17 times per hour if it increased the risk of rain on Tuesday by 7%?Would you wear a mask for 2 months, if you had good confidence it would the increase the odds of schools coming back full-time by 10%?
Edited by sambucket on Saturday 4th July 17:03
sambucket said:
A purely hypothetical question.
Would you wear a mask for 2 months, if you had good confidence it would the increase the odds of schools coming back full-time by 10%?
Not a great question because schools are going back full time. In England at least.Would you wear a mask for 2 months, if you had good confidence it would the increase the odds of schools coming back full-time by 10%?
I would accept mask wearing in public spaces for 2 months if it meant a permanent end to all social distancing measures.
Elysium said:
Not a great question because schools are going back full time. In England at least.
I would accept mask wearing in public spaces for 2 months if it meant a permanent end to all social distancing measures.
It was hypothetical question. I would accept mask wearing in public spaces for 2 months if it meant a permanent end to all social distancing measures.
Just curious what people would be able to stomach, for a small improvement in the odds of something like school returning with no social distancing.
sambucket said:
A purely hypothetical question.
Would you wear a mask for 2 months, if you had good confidence it would the increase the odds of schools coming back full-time by 10%?
I would wear a snood providing it's not baking hot. I'm hoping schools are a 100% cert for August/September. But I have no faith in the government to keep to this plan if theres a slight uptick. Best case, I can see a series of local lockdowns fecking up kids education throughout the autumn and winterWould you wear a mask for 2 months, if you had good confidence it would the increase the odds of schools coming back full-time by 10%?
Edited by sambucket on Saturday 4th July 17:03
How many cases a day are you at now? When do the masks come off? Jan 2021? Later? Never?
I was musing on our predicament this morning and had an idea.
Why don't we simply drop all measures for 1 week, then reinstate them and wait 2 weeks?
This is pretty low risk, there are hardly any cases now and if the number of people with the virus doubles in a week its no great shakes. We could take some extra steps to keep the elderly and vulnerable out of the way, so very low risk in terms of fatalities and no threat to hospital capacity.
If nothing bad happens, we drop everything permanently and try to figure out why we did all these things in the first place.
Seems like a good plan to me.
Why don't we simply drop all measures for 1 week, then reinstate them and wait 2 weeks?
This is pretty low risk, there are hardly any cases now and if the number of people with the virus doubles in a week its no great shakes. We could take some extra steps to keep the elderly and vulnerable out of the way, so very low risk in terms of fatalities and no threat to hospital capacity.
If nothing bad happens, we drop everything permanently and try to figure out why we did all these things in the first place.
Seems like a good plan to me.
sambucket said:
Elysium said:
Not a great question because schools are going back full time. In England at least.
I would accept mask wearing in public spaces for 2 months if it meant a permanent end to all social distancing measures.
It was hypothetical question. I would accept mask wearing in public spaces for 2 months if it meant a permanent end to all social distancing measures.
Just curious what people would be able to stomach, for a small improvement in the odds of something like school returning with no social distancing.
Elysium said:
I was musing on our predicament this morning and had an idea.
Why don't we simply drop all measures for 1 week, then reinstate them and wait 2 weeks?
This is pretty low risk, there are hardly any cases now and if the number of people with the virus doubles in a week its no great shakes. We could take some extra steps to keep the elderly and vulnerable out of the way, so very low risk in terms of fatalities and no threat to hospital capacity.
If nothing bad happens, we drop everything permanently and try to figure out why we did all these things in the first place.
Seems like a good plan to me.
Isn't that effectively what the English government have done?Why don't we simply drop all measures for 1 week, then reinstate them and wait 2 weeks?
This is pretty low risk, there are hardly any cases now and if the number of people with the virus doubles in a week its no great shakes. We could take some extra steps to keep the elderly and vulnerable out of the way, so very low risk in terms of fatalities and no threat to hospital capacity.
If nothing bad happens, we drop everything permanently and try to figure out why we did all these things in the first place.
Seems like a good plan to me.
Elysium said:
I was musing on our predicament this morning and had an idea.
Why don't we simply drop all measures for 1 week, then reinstate them and wait 2 weeks?
This is pretty low risk, there are hardly any cases now and if the number of people with the virus doubles in a week its no great shakes. We could take some extra steps to keep the elderly and vulnerable out of the way, so very low risk in terms of fatalities and no threat to hospital capacity.
If nothing bad happens, we drop everything permanently and try to figure out why we did all these things in the first place.
Seems like a good plan to me.
This was the original plan proposed by imperial wasn't it? Back when sustained suppression was considered impossible. There was trigger ICU levels in and out, with binary state chances. For 18 months! Adaptive triggering it was called. I think originally it was preferred to not have phased return at all, and jump instantly between states.Why don't we simply drop all measures for 1 week, then reinstate them and wait 2 weeks?
This is pretty low risk, there are hardly any cases now and if the number of people with the virus doubles in a week its no great shakes. We could take some extra steps to keep the elderly and vulnerable out of the way, so very low risk in terms of fatalities and no threat to hospital capacity.
If nothing bad happens, we drop everything permanently and try to figure out why we did all these things in the first place.
Seems like a good plan to me.
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