CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 3)
Discussion
sambucket said:
That sounds a little bit grim! Glad you are getting treatment.
It's a nasty little f
ker, it took five years to get it all out. I need an annual MRI for the next few years to check it hasn't recurred. So thanks to lockdown I've not been getting treatment, you can probably understand why I'm firmly in the 'cure is worse than the disease' camp.
Fatality risk to me from Covid 0.001%
Fatality risk to me if my condition was left completely untreated 75%. (yup, 3/4)
I'm not unique, there are thousands of people who are at no risk from Covid who are currently not getting treatment for conditions that are far more likely to harm them.
That can't be right can it?
Elysium said:
Are you asking me or making a statement?
Sweden demonstrates that this is untrue. They are managing COVID comfortably with minimal interventions.
You have already admitted that you don’t know if your preferred alternative is better.
Which is a compliment in most scientific circles. Sweden demonstrates that this is untrue. They are managing COVID comfortably with minimal interventions.
You have already admitted that you don’t know if your preferred alternative is better.
Dr Z said:
RTB said:
RSTurboPaul said:
Not sure if this is posted already but Lancet reporting 5.2% prevalence in testing, framed (of course 
) as 'herd immunity is impossible without a vaccine':
https://twitter.com/i/events/1280194458722562049?s...
I don't understand how they can frame it in that way. If many (most?) are asymptomatic and have no detectable antibodies after catching the actual live virus, surely they will see the exact same outcome after receiving a shot of dead virus in a vaccination? In which case, why do we need a vaccine??
Vaccines generally do a much better job of eliciting an immune response than the pathogen they mimic. Usually through the addition of adjuvants to prime the immune system or through directly engineering the antigen or through specific dosing regimens. If I wanted long term immunity to SARS-CoV2 I'd go for a vaccine over infection. ) as 'herd immunity is impossible without a vaccine':https://twitter.com/i/events/1280194458722562049?s...
I don't understand how they can frame it in that way. If many (most?) are asymptomatic and have no detectable antibodies after catching the actual live virus, surely they will see the exact same outcome after receiving a shot of dead virus in a vaccination? In which case, why do we need a vaccine??
Suffice to say that if 30-40% of those vaccinated show no response to a vaccine and another similarly large percentage only show a very weak non protective response then it won't get approved anyway.
ONS said:
As of 29 June 2020, 6.3% (95% confidence interval: 4.7% to 8.1%) of individuals from whom blood samples were taken tested positive for antibodies to the coronavirus (COVID-19); this equates to 1 in 16 people, or 2.8 million people, in England. Note that blood samples are taken only from those aged 16 years and over.
That is household data, so nobody under 16 or anyone who is in a hospital, care home or similar institution. So many who will have or had it are not in the survey. We know some people do not catch it at all and that some catch it but do not produce anti-bodies. The data is also two or three weeks behind as it takes that long for anti-bodies to develop. Depending on the numbers in the immune and had it but no anti-body group we could be well above 20% who have had the virus already.Edited by Vanden Saab on Wednesday 8th July 21:21
TheJimi said:
sambucket said:
The higher the cases we go in with,the higher the chance of lockdown measures? The lower cases the better chance we can TTI and maintain normality.
I would agree with that logic.isaldiri said:
'New normal' or actual normality as defined by life pre march? I agree we can control and track cases much better with a low starting point. The issue is how long are we then supposed to maintain our life being in fear of the virus...? There is no obvious end point to case suppression - that's my primary issue with it.
Whitty was asked this in the last press conference and he waffled but basically said spring. Followed by Boris doing his bit, talking about cricket. I’ll try and find it
https://youtu.be/ifpIWWxqQis?t=2697
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 8th July 21:55
monkfish1 said:
You missed a public information campaign. Without that, the rest is useless. Millions are scared to death.
Yes, the elderly folk I see are literally petrified re COVID. They are avoiding hospital treatment at all costs, even when they have obvious life threatening conditions, happy to ride them out. The media have really not helped in this
pneumothorax said:
Yes, the elderly folk I see are literally petrified re COVID. They are avoiding hospital treatment at all costs, even when they have obvious life threatening conditions, happy to ride them out.
The media have really not helped in this
“Literally petrified”? You mean that they have genuinely turned to stone? Or are they merely in a state of complete paralysis?The media have really not helped in this
I’d say they have bigger things than covid to worry about in either case.
BlackWidow13 said:
pneumothorax said:
Yes, the elderly folk I see are literally petrified re COVID. They are avoiding hospital treatment at all costs, even when they have obvious life threatening conditions, happy to ride them out.
The media have really not helped in this
“Literally petrified”? You mean that they have genuinely turned to stone? Or are they merely in a state of complete paralysis?The media have really not helped in this
I’d say they have bigger things than covid to worry about in either case.
BlackWidow13 said:
pneumothorax said:
Yes, the elderly folk I see are literally petrified re COVID. They are avoiding hospital treatment at all costs, even when they have obvious life threatening conditions, happy to ride them out.
The media have really not helped in this
“Literally petrified”? You mean that they have genuinely turned to stone? Or are they merely in a state of complete paralysis?The media have really not helped in this
I’d say they have bigger things than covid to worry about in either case.
blackwidow
No, you are correct, none of my Patients have been petrified
They are however ignoring medical advice about life threatening situations, and it bothers me. In fact it often vexes me.
They have consumed a narrative that describes almost certain death in hospital if they go there, and it is almost impossible to get them to consider an alternative approach, ie something sensible, like modern medicine.
No, you are correct, none of my Patients have been petrified
They are however ignoring medical advice about life threatening situations, and it bothers me. In fact it often vexes me.
They have consumed a narrative that describes almost certain death in hospital if they go there, and it is almost impossible to get them to consider an alternative approach, ie something sensible, like modern medicine.
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