CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 3)
Discussion
BBC gleefully reporting the US passing 3m cases on the TV tonight.
What they failed to show, though, unless I blinked and missed it, is the fact that deaths appear to still be levelling out:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-5334222...
Perhaps we will see a 'second wave' of deaths soon, as it looks like it will be about three weeks since the increase in the Cases graph and there is the incubation period to consider, but then there is no mention either in the online story or on the TV about the number of tests and how that compares to the number of cases picked up.
What they failed to show, though, unless I blinked and missed it, is the fact that deaths appear to still be levelling out:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-5334222...
Perhaps we will see a 'second wave' of deaths soon, as it looks like it will be about three weeks since the increase in the Cases graph and there is the incubation period to consider, but then there is no mention either in the online story or on the TV about the number of tests and how that compares to the number of cases picked up.
Edited by RSTurboPaul on Wednesday 8th July 23:58
sambucket said:
Saweep said:
Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
I have family members and friends that work in hospitals. They have had nothing to do for months.
Hence the waiting lists extending...
This doesn't make any sense. Because patients won't come in? They are turning down appointments?I have family members and friends that work in hospitals. They have had nothing to do for months.
Hence the waiting lists extending...
Or because the departments are re-orientated to covid, and havn't been reset?
Or something else?
People are not going to hospital because they are terrified. Hospitals have cancelled appointments to clear capacity for COVID that is not needed.
One of my friends went to A&E with a suspected broken ankle last week. No other patients in the building. Directed straight through to get an x ray. Made to walk as wheelchair would be a contamination risk. No-one was allowed to touch them and they were alone in the room when the x ray was done.
The place have been packed with a 4 hour delay pre-COVID.
This is where we are headed if the Govt tries to send us back into lockdown:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8503323/S...
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8503323/S...
RSTurboPaul said:
BBC gleefully reporting the US passing 3m cases on the TV tonight.
What they failed to show, though, unless I blinked and missed it, is the fact that deaths appear to still be levelling out:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-5334222...
Perhaps we will see a 'second wave' of deaths soon, as it looks like it will be about three weeks since the increase in the Cases graph, but then there is no mention either in the online story or on the TV about the number of tests and how that compares to the number of cases picked up.
Just wait two weeks What they failed to show, though, unless I blinked and missed it, is the fact that deaths appear to still be levelling out:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-5334222...
Perhaps we will see a 'second wave' of deaths soon, as it looks like it will be about three weeks since the increase in the Cases graph, but then there is no mention either in the online story or on the TV about the number of tests and how that compares to the number of cases picked up.
Saweep said:
Sam I wish you wouldn't play dumb so often. You aren't socrates mate
You've been contributing to this thread since day 1. You know the NHS cancelled everything and went onto war footing.
They're still there...preparing for an enemy that isn't coming!
I know they re orientated elective for covid yes. But I had assumed it was all coming back online by now?You've been contributing to this thread since day 1. You know the NHS cancelled everything and went onto war footing.
They're still there...preparing for an enemy that isn't coming!
Just checked a random hospital website. Note dated 29th May.
QEHB is set to restart elective surgery at the start of June as the Trust enters Phase 2 of its response to the COVID-19 pandemic. The current rate of infection and number of COVID-19 positive inpatients has fallen significantly from their peak and have now plateaued. As a result the Trust is now able to carefully reopen some of its operating capacity to treat those patients who have been denied treatment they require over recent months.
If they are still twiddling their thumbs something is wrong, as presumably there are enough takers from the waiting lists to fill the (reduced) slots?
Add in infection control hitting throughput, and I just don't get why there would be still idle hands, today.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 9th July 00:17
Saweep said:
sambucket said:
There seems to be a perception on the one side, that NHS are twiddling thumbs with loads of spare capacity.
And on the other side, a service that is struggling to provide the most basic services, with waiting lists stretching into years?
Those two things are not mutually exclusive.And on the other side, a service that is struggling to provide the most basic services, with waiting lists stretching into years?
I have family members and friends that work in hospitals. They have had nothing to do for months.
Hence the waiting lists extending...
sambucket said:
Saweep said:
Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
I have family members and friends that work in hospitals. They have had nothing to do for months.
Hence the waiting lists extending...
This doesn't make any sense. Because patients won't come in? They are turning down appointments?I have family members and friends that work in hospitals. They have had nothing to do for months.
Hence the waiting lists extending...
Or because the departments are re-orientated to covid, and havn't been reset?
Or something else?
Total waste of time, they even sent me a leaflet titled "You have a soft tissue injury, here are some physio exercises". Thanks for that, I'd forgotten the last 4 years.
It is a joke.
That was 2 weeks ago and I've finally managed to get an actual appointment with my consultant who is based at a different hospital. In the meantime I've been waiting for surgery for atleast the last 6 months so god knows how far into the future that has been pushed now.
It could be worse, I'm not dying.
what has happened in israel ?
https://www.haveeru.com.mv/israel-experienced-the-...
Just months just after reopening restaurants, malls and seashores, Israel is now viewing a 50-fold surge in new coronavirus cases. From about 20 new cases a working day in mid-May perhaps to far more than 1,000 new scenarios a working day considerably less than two months afterwards, Israel is hurrying to the moment once more near venues it so not too long ago rushed to open up.
https://www.ft.com/content/44afdf58-4aaa-4c01-a5df...
Top health official quits amid warnings that country has ‘lost control of pandemic’
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/08/middleeast/isra...
On April 18, almost exactly two months after Israel discovered its first case of coronavirus, Netanyahu declared that the country had succeeded in its fight against coronavirus, setting an example for the world "in safeguarding life and blocking the outbreak of the pandemic." He predicted Israel would set an example in restarting the economy as well.
If only the story ended there.
Israel's first wave of coronavirus was a success story, but the second wave its health experts are cataloguing appears to be on track for a very different ending.
This from a country that had it under control and they started to release the restrictions - its also a hot country so the heat doesnt slow or kill it.
Again we will have those on here spouut about it not a risk that we need to push on and get the economy going.
this is going to bit us.... we are going to get a second wave - this is going to happen its not an if but when... and its going to hurt us big time.
the worst is yet to come - Im afraid of this. I genuinely am afraid of this.
https://www.haveeru.com.mv/israel-experienced-the-...
Just months just after reopening restaurants, malls and seashores, Israel is now viewing a 50-fold surge in new coronavirus cases. From about 20 new cases a working day in mid-May perhaps to far more than 1,000 new scenarios a working day considerably less than two months afterwards, Israel is hurrying to the moment once more near venues it so not too long ago rushed to open up.
https://www.ft.com/content/44afdf58-4aaa-4c01-a5df...
Top health official quits amid warnings that country has ‘lost control of pandemic’
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/08/middleeast/isra...
On April 18, almost exactly two months after Israel discovered its first case of coronavirus, Netanyahu declared that the country had succeeded in its fight against coronavirus, setting an example for the world "in safeguarding life and blocking the outbreak of the pandemic." He predicted Israel would set an example in restarting the economy as well.
If only the story ended there.
Israel's first wave of coronavirus was a success story, but the second wave its health experts are cataloguing appears to be on track for a very different ending.
This from a country that had it under control and they started to release the restrictions - its also a hot country so the heat doesnt slow or kill it.
Again we will have those on here spouut about it not a risk that we need to push on and get the economy going.
this is going to bit us.... we are going to get a second wave - this is going to happen its not an if but when... and its going to hurt us big time.
the worst is yet to come - Im afraid of this. I genuinely am afraid of this.
Edited by ruggedscotty on Thursday 9th July 00:20
ruggedscotty said:
what has happened in israel ?
https://www.haveeru.com.mv/israel-experienced-the-...
Just months just after reopening restaurants, malls and seashores, Israel is now viewing a 50-fold surge in new coronavirus cases. From about 20 new cases a working day in mid-May perhaps to far more than 1,000 new scenarios a working day considerably less than two months afterwards, Israel is hurrying to the moment once more near venues it so not too long ago rushed to open up.
https://www.ft.com/content/44afdf58-4aaa-4c01-a5df...
Top health official quits amid warnings that country has ‘lost control of pandemic’
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/08/middleeast/isra...
On April 18, almost exactly two months after Israel discovered its first case of coronavirus, Netanyahu declared that the country had succeeded in its fight against coronavirus, setting an example for the world "in safeguarding life and blocking the outbreak of the pandemic." He predicted Israel would set an example in restarting the economy as well.
If only the story ended there.
Israel's first wave of coronavirus was a success story, but the second wave its health experts are cataloguing appears to be on track for a very different ending.
This from a country that had it under control and they started to release the restrictions - its also a hot country so the heat doesnt slow or kill it.
Again we will have those on here spout about it not a risk that we need to
What has happened is that a virus is doing what viruses do.https://www.haveeru.com.mv/israel-experienced-the-...
Just months just after reopening restaurants, malls and seashores, Israel is now viewing a 50-fold surge in new coronavirus cases. From about 20 new cases a working day in mid-May perhaps to far more than 1,000 new scenarios a working day considerably less than two months afterwards, Israel is hurrying to the moment once more near venues it so not too long ago rushed to open up.
https://www.ft.com/content/44afdf58-4aaa-4c01-a5df...
Top health official quits amid warnings that country has ‘lost control of pandemic’
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/08/middleeast/isra...
On April 18, almost exactly two months after Israel discovered its first case of coronavirus, Netanyahu declared that the country had succeeded in its fight against coronavirus, setting an example for the world "in safeguarding life and blocking the outbreak of the pandemic." He predicted Israel would set an example in restarting the economy as well.
If only the story ended there.
Israel's first wave of coronavirus was a success story, but the second wave its health experts are cataloguing appears to be on track for a very different ending.
This from a country that had it under control and they started to release the restrictions - its also a hot country so the heat doesnt slow or kill it.
Again we will have those on here spout about it not a risk that we need to
I dunno if King Canute was anything to do with Israel but it's a nice analogy.
Vanden Saab said:
Do not expect it to return to normal any time soon. Before Covid a minor procedure might be carried out in 20 minutes so three per hour. Now if there is any chance of any aerosol generation then the room has to be left empty for an hour and then deep cleaned. so one procedure every hour and a half.
Blimey. Where does the 'staff sitting around doing nothing' fit into this. Do you need less staff with this kind of infection control?Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 9th July 00:27
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That may be you but many of us are getting on sensibly living pretty normal lives quite safely, by our own rules, regardless of what the regulations might be. That’s what will happen even if a so called lockdown is reimposed, which is hardly likely nationally in any case.
ruggedscotty said:
what has happened in israel ?
https://www.haveeru.com.mv/israel-experienced-the-...
Just months just after reopening restaurants, malls and seashores, Israel is now viewing a 50-fold surge in new coronavirus cases. From about 20 new cases a working day in mid-May perhaps to far more than 1,000 new scenarios a working day considerably less than two months afterwards, Israel is hurrying to the moment once more near venues it so not too long ago rushed to open up.
https://www.ft.com/content/44afdf58-4aaa-4c01-a5df...
Top health official quits amid warnings that country has ‘lost control of pandemic’
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/08/middleeast/isra...
On April 18, almost exactly two months after Israel discovered its first case of coronavirus, Netanyahu declared that the country had succeeded in its fight against coronavirus, setting an example for the world "in safeguarding life and blocking the outbreak of the pandemic." He predicted Israel would set an example in restarting the economy as well.
If only the story ended there.
Israel's first wave of coronavirus was a success story, but the second wave its health experts are cataloguing appears to be on track for a very different ending.
This from a country that had it under control and they started to release the restrictions - its also a hot country so the heat doesnt slow or kill it.
Again we will have those on here spout about it not a risk that we need to
This is what happens when you lockdown too early and try to suppress the virus. Coming to every country who according to some have done so much better than us.https://www.haveeru.com.mv/israel-experienced-the-...
Just months just after reopening restaurants, malls and seashores, Israel is now viewing a 50-fold surge in new coronavirus cases. From about 20 new cases a working day in mid-May perhaps to far more than 1,000 new scenarios a working day considerably less than two months afterwards, Israel is hurrying to the moment once more near venues it so not too long ago rushed to open up.
https://www.ft.com/content/44afdf58-4aaa-4c01-a5df...
Top health official quits amid warnings that country has ‘lost control of pandemic’
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/08/middleeast/isra...
On April 18, almost exactly two months after Israel discovered its first case of coronavirus, Netanyahu declared that the country had succeeded in its fight against coronavirus, setting an example for the world "in safeguarding life and blocking the outbreak of the pandemic." He predicted Israel would set an example in restarting the economy as well.
If only the story ended there.
Israel's first wave of coronavirus was a success story, but the second wave its health experts are cataloguing appears to be on track for a very different ending.
This from a country that had it under control and they started to release the restrictions - its also a hot country so the heat doesnt slow or kill it.
Again we will have those on here spout about it not a risk that we need to
Vanden Saab said:
ruggedscotty said:
what has happened in israel ?
https://www.haveeru.com.mv/israel-experienced-the-...
Just months just after reopening restaurants, malls and seashores, Israel is now viewing a 50-fold surge in new coronavirus cases. From about 20 new cases a working day in mid-May perhaps to far more than 1,000 new scenarios a working day considerably less than two months afterwards, Israel is hurrying to the moment once more near venues it so not too long ago rushed to open up.
https://www.ft.com/content/44afdf58-4aaa-4c01-a5df...
Top health official quits amid warnings that country has ‘lost control of pandemic’
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/08/middleeast/isra...
On April 18, almost exactly two months after Israel discovered its first case of coronavirus, Netanyahu declared that the country had succeeded in its fight against coronavirus, setting an example for the world "in safeguarding life and blocking the outbreak of the pandemic." He predicted Israel would set an example in restarting the economy as well.
If only the story ended there.
Israel's first wave of coronavirus was a success story, but the second wave its health experts are cataloguing appears to be on track for a very different ending.
This from a country that had it under control and they started to release the restrictions - its also a hot country so the heat doesnt slow or kill it.
Again we will have those on here spout about it not a risk that we need to
This is what happens when you lockdown too early and try to suppress the virus. Coming to every country who according to some have done so much better than us.https://www.haveeru.com.mv/israel-experienced-the-...
Just months just after reopening restaurants, malls and seashores, Israel is now viewing a 50-fold surge in new coronavirus cases. From about 20 new cases a working day in mid-May perhaps to far more than 1,000 new scenarios a working day considerably less than two months afterwards, Israel is hurrying to the moment once more near venues it so not too long ago rushed to open up.
https://www.ft.com/content/44afdf58-4aaa-4c01-a5df...
Top health official quits amid warnings that country has ‘lost control of pandemic’
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/08/middleeast/isra...
On April 18, almost exactly two months after Israel discovered its first case of coronavirus, Netanyahu declared that the country had succeeded in its fight against coronavirus, setting an example for the world "in safeguarding life and blocking the outbreak of the pandemic." He predicted Israel would set an example in restarting the economy as well.
If only the story ended there.
Israel's first wave of coronavirus was a success story, but the second wave its health experts are cataloguing appears to be on track for a very different ending.
This from a country that had it under control and they started to release the restrictions - its also a hot country so the heat doesnt slow or kill it.
Again we will have those on here spout about it not a risk that we need to
sambucket said:
Vanden Saab said:
Do not expect it to return to normal any time soon. Before Covid a minor procedure might be carried out in 20 minutes so three per hour. Now if there is any chance of any aerosol generation then the room has to be left empty for an hour and then deep cleaned. so one procedure every hour and a half.
Blimey. Where does the 'staff sitting around doing nothing' fit into this. Do you need less staff with this kind of infection control?Edited by sambucket on Thursday 9th July 00:27
I do not think many people really understand what avoiding an infection like Covid in a hospital entails when they glibly say Covid infected people were sent to the care homes in March or why transferring people with Covid from care homes to hospitals would have been a futile waste of time in most cases....If that sounds harsh sorry but it is just the way things are.
We only had three or may be four hospitals in the country with the capability to actually deal with infectious people once those were full the only option was to do what the NHS did and close down all operations not only to allow for the number of Covid patients but also to avoid everybody who went to hospital becoming infected. It then took time to put the new infection control measures in place through out the hospital before procedures could be restarted...
ruggedscotty said:
This from a country that had it under control and they started to release the restrictions - its also a hot country so the heat doesnt slow or kill it.
Again we will have those on here spouut about it not a risk that we need to push on and get the economy going.
this is going to bit us.... we are going to get a second wave - this is going to happen its not an if but when... and its going to hurt us big time.
the worst is yet to come - Im afraid of this. I genuinely am afraid of this.
am genuinely mystified why you seem so fearful due to the above happening to israel. Why? Did you seriously ever expect the virus to just go poof and disappear somehow? It's still around and it will be around whether you like it or not. Do you want to live in fear forever or just accept reality?Again we will have those on here spouut about it not a risk that we need to push on and get the economy going.
this is going to bit us.... we are going to get a second wave - this is going to happen its not an if but when... and its going to hurt us big time.
the worst is yet to come - Im afraid of this. I genuinely am afraid of this.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
One of the nurses I was chatting to over the weekend told me they were installing very expensive air-extraction systems in the theatres - intended to remove every bit air in-between patient operations. I'd imagine that along with the cost these will slow things down massively. I'll admit to not knowing the real dangers of airborne transmissions in such a place, but she definitely saw it as bordering on madness/complete overkill.On another note, got shouted at like I was a recalcitrant five year old in WHSmith yesterday.
Walked in through the 'ENTER ONLY" door (right next to the "EXIT ONLY" door - I'm always tempted to do a Led Zep with these) and headed for the internal post office bit. Woman assistant must have asked me something but I didn't hear her. Next thing, in full-on survival mode, she's shouting at me like a stern school teacher. "WHERE ARE YOU GOING - SHOP OR POST OFFICE?" "Post office," I replied. "Right then," she tutted angrily, "proceed." Proceed? WTF. I might have found it somewhat erotic if she was wearing a rather sexy-but-stern outfit, but she looked like a refugee from Poundland. I wouldn't mind but the store was empty apart from one person at the post office counter.I've had issues (like magazine issues, hehe) here before. Being told "you can't browse, just buy what you want and leave" type stuff... even when looking for a new paperback, then getting 'checked-on' every couple of minutes ("have you found what you are looking for - you can't browse here, you know").
I'll find another post office in future, I think.
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