CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 3)
Discussion
The thing that annoys me most is the way that the majority, who seem to want these restrictions, fudge them without really thinking about it.
For example, the people wandering around in masks that are pulled down around their chin. The ones who fuss about with them, to the extent that any virus on the mask is now going to be on their hands. The ones who religiously maintain the 2m social distancing in the queues, but largely ignore it inside shops. The jobsworths in the workplace who plaster the place in signs, but then gather in groups less than a metre apart to talk about their good work.
I know they don't mean it, but they are the problem.
For example, the people wandering around in masks that are pulled down around their chin. The ones who fuss about with them, to the extent that any virus on the mask is now going to be on their hands. The ones who religiously maintain the 2m social distancing in the queues, but largely ignore it inside shops. The jobsworths in the workplace who plaster the place in signs, but then gather in groups less than a metre apart to talk about their good work.
I know they don't mean it, but they are the problem.
Elysium said:
The thing that annoys me most is the way that the majority, who seem to want these restrictions, fudge them without really thinking about it.
For example, the people wandering around in masks that are pulled down around their chin. The ones who fuss about with them, to the extent that any virus on the mask is now going to be on their hands. The ones who religiously maintain the 2m social distancing in the queues, but largely ignore it inside shops. The jobsworths in the workplace who plaster the place in signs, but then gather in groups less than a metre apart to talk about their good work.
I know they don't mean it, but they are the problem.
This. So much this. Hence why I’m so annoyed that I’m going to face a fixed penalty if I fail to play along with the whole farce from tomorrow.For example, the people wandering around in masks that are pulled down around their chin. The ones who fuss about with them, to the extent that any virus on the mask is now going to be on their hands. The ones who religiously maintain the 2m social distancing in the queues, but largely ignore it inside shops. The jobsworths in the workplace who plaster the place in signs, but then gather in groups less than a metre apart to talk about their good work.
I know they don't mean it, but they are the problem.
Twinfan said:
Saweep said:
I see it as every citizen's duty to ignore stupid rules made up by stupid people and enforced by stupid little Hitlers.
Agreed. I'm happy to maintain distance if it keeps people happy, but why does that mean I have to follow a farcical one-way system around a shop?People doing whatever the f
k they want rather than follow some very simple guidelines.Alucidnation said:
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the problem.
People doing whatever the fk they want rather than follow some very simple guidelines.
With an infection risk of 3%(?) in passing someone at 2m with a 1:2200 infection rate across the UK I would suggest that the 'guidelines' are over zealous.People doing whatever the f
k they want rather than follow some very simple guidelines.Any what benefit does the one-way system add?
captain_cynic said:
That will help us spot and avoid idiots.
Masks are worn to prevent you from spreading infections and they are quite effective at that. You only need to look at the low infection rates in Japan or South Korea where mask use is common.
I don't just mean from SARS-COV-2 but from other fluid borne viruses like influenza. Flu rates in the UK would drop significantly if people wore masks if they were showing symptoms.
You are right about spotting idiots. They are the ones demanding everyone wears masks all the time.Masks are worn to prevent you from spreading infections and they are quite effective at that. You only need to look at the low infection rates in Japan or South Korea where mask use is common.
I don't just mean from SARS-COV-2 but from other fluid borne viruses like influenza. Flu rates in the UK would drop significantly if people wore masks if they were showing symptoms.
Mask use is very low in Denmark and they have very few infections so Japan/South Korea having few infections is not exactly conclusive wrt to mask wearing.
Elysium said:
The thing that annoys me most is the way that the majority, who seem to want these restrictions, fudge them without really thinking about it.
For example, the people wandering around in masks that are pulled down around their chin. The ones who fuss about with them, to the extent that any virus on the mask is now going to be on their hands. The ones who religiously maintain the 2m social distancing in the queues, but largely ignore it inside shops. The jobsworths in the workplace who plaster the place in signs, but then gather in groups less than a metre apart to talk about their good work.
I know they don't mean it, but they are the problem.
It's not about being safe, it's about appearing to be safe.For example, the people wandering around in masks that are pulled down around their chin. The ones who fuss about with them, to the extent that any virus on the mask is now going to be on their hands. The ones who religiously maintain the 2m social distancing in the queues, but largely ignore it inside shops. The jobsworths in the workplace who plaster the place in signs, but then gather in groups less than a metre apart to talk about their good work.
I know they don't mean it, but they are the problem.
Wash your hands and don't touch your face is probably the best advice, but most people can't manage that.
I saw a chap the other week walking around the supermarket with arms full of shopping and a multipack of crisps hanging out of his mouth. I presume that he didn't use a basket/trolley because they might be contaminated but thought nothing of putting something in his mouth. A disgusting thing to do at any time.
grumbledoak said:
Leicester's Mayor seems to be fighting back
https://twitter.com/CityMayorLeic/status/128089632...
wow...what an absolute cluster fhttps://twitter.com/CityMayorLeic/status/128089632...
k grumbledoak said:
Leicester's Mayor seems to be fighting back
https://twitter.com/CityMayorLeic/status/128089632...
Good on him. That's a fairly damning indictment of the government's approach and the woefully incomplete 'data' provided.https://twitter.com/CityMayorLeic/status/128089632...
WinstonWolf said:
grumbledoak said:
Leicester's Mayor seems to be fighting back
https://twitter.com/CityMayorLeic/status/128089632...
Good on him. That's a fairly damning indictment of the government's approach and the woefully incomplete 'data' provided.https://twitter.com/CityMayorLeic/status/128089632...
But the public health officials in Leicester it seems were also concerned about the pillar 2 test results ie. community spread, even if that wasn't apparent in the testing results from pillar 1 e.g. hospitals etc.
So it seems after much unproductive discussions between mid-level officials, government decided to move quickly to introduce the local lockdown rather than debate the matter endlessly and get involved with potential data based 'wild goose chases'.
In a fast-moving situation where there aren't well developed processes, there are always going to be loose ends and people who didn't feel fully consulted.
captain_cynic said:
MikeT66 said:
How about this one... not just a bloody good band, but I think this is subtle. Almost tempted myself. Almost.
https://www.redbubble.com/i/mask/Placebo-Face-Mask...
That will help us spot and avoid idiots.https://www.redbubble.com/i/mask/Placebo-Face-Mask...
Masks are worn to prevent you from spreading infections and they are quite effective at that. You only need to look at the low infection rates in Japan or South Korea where mask use is common.
I don't just mean from SARS-COV-2 but from other fluid borne viruses like influenza. Flu rates in the UK would drop significantly if people wore masks if they were showing symptoms.
SAGE put the effect on transmission reduction of cloth masks at around 3%, mirrored by the CDC.
They are about as effective as giving people knitted condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS.
bodhi said:
I'm already using this as a way of spotting idiots - if you think a cloth mask is going to do anything at all to stop disease, other than give you a moist petri dish on your face full of CO2, chances are you're a bit dim.
SAGE put the effect on transmission reduction of cloth masks at around 3%, mirrored by the CDC.
They are about as effective as giving people knitted condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS.
IT's like we are stuck in March. Mindset has moved on. Every day there is emerging research and additional scientific evidence that community masks work and are very important. SAGE put the effect on transmission reduction of cloth masks at around 3%, mirrored by the CDC.
They are about as effective as giving people knitted condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS.
Even if it were just 3%, if that is the extra push to tip R below 1 then it's worth it, economically, to keep things open.
It's a tiny minority throwing toys out of the pram.
Increasingly I'm reading reports of big business leading teh way on this type of thing, recognizing that suppression is in long term business interest.
Apple is the famous one, lots of big retailers calling for clear and unambiguous shift towards mandating masks, eg target, home depot etc.
sambucket said:
Even if it were just 3%, if that is the extra push to tip R below 1 then it's worth it, economically, to keep things open.
I hope you are now wearing one then, at all times when out of the house (after all, if it is just 3%....) rather than boasting about how you were ignoring all of the rules local to you.EddieSteadyGo said:
I hope you are now wearing one then, at all times when out of the house (after all, if it is just 3%....) rather than boasting about how you were ignoring all of the rules local to you.
I break all the rules all the time. I don't care one jot, what you think about that. I also ride a motorbike without a helmet. And take drugs. I also don't care what you think about that.
sambucket said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
I hope you are now wearing one then, at all times when out of the house (after all, if it is just 3%....) rather than boasting about how you were ignoring all of the rules local to you.
I break all the rules all the time. I don't care one jot, what you think about that. I also ride a motorbike without a helmet. And take drugs. I also don't care what you think about that.
sambucket said:
Increasingly I'm reading reports of big business leading teh way on this type of thing, recognizing that suppression is in long term business interest.
Apple is the famous one, lots of big retailers calling for clear and unambiguous shift towards mandating masks, eg target, home depot etc.
If you want to go on any of my company's sites you have to wear a mask all the time except eating and drinking, you have to pass an airport-style temperature screening set up and you're expected to have regular PCR tests (we have our own labs for doing this) if you're routinely on-site.Apple is the famous one, lots of big retailers calling for clear and unambiguous shift towards mandating masks, eg target, home depot etc.
I doubt I'll be back in the office until next year now.
sambucket said:
bodhi said:
I'm already using this as a way of spotting idiots - if you think a cloth mask is going to do anything at all to stop disease, other than give you a moist petri dish on your face full of CO2, chances are you're a bit dim.
SAGE put the effect on transmission reduction of cloth masks at around 3%, mirrored by the CDC.
They are about as effective as giving people knitted condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS.
IT's like we are stuck in March. Mindset has moved on. Every day there is emerging research and additional scientific evidence that community masks work and are very important. SAGE put the effect on transmission reduction of cloth masks at around 3%, mirrored by the CDC.
They are about as effective as giving people knitted condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS.
Even if it were just 3%, if that is the extra push to tip R below 1 then it's worth it, economically, to keep things open.
It's a tiny minority throwing toys out of the pram.
Increasingly I'm reading reports of big business leading teh way on this type of thing, recognizing that suppression is in long term business interest.
Apple is the famous one, lots of big retailers calling for clear and unambiguous shift towards mandating masks, eg target, home depot etc.
However you mention lots of new scientific evidence that they're useful - can you point to any? As I found this from 2015 -
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC44209...
RCT to judge just how effective cloth masks are, and the result is not very. 97% of virus particles still get through, what's more moisture retention and poor filtration can actually increase the chances of infection.
Now I appreciate science changes all the time, so if you can point to a similarly rigorous trial that suggests they work I'll be all ears.
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