CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 3)
Discussion
I've been following this thread for a long time now, and in general I agree with the rhetoric that we're overreacting as a nation. However there are certain things that make me wonder, mainly the death figures - our death toll and how it's the third highest in the world (why is that?), and the fact that almost 600,000 people round the world have died which appears to be much higher than the usual seasonal flu numbers.
Surely these deaths aren't all wrongly put down as being caused by Covid?
Surely these deaths aren't all wrongly put down as being caused by Covid?
Not-The-Messiah said:
You do understand that if everyone is told to do like you say and the government does get serious with things like bars and masks. Then your parents will be wearing masks to the hospital for potentially years to come and we won't see this getting back to normal you speak of for years also.
A vaccine will be almost impossible to test and approve with only small numbers of the virus about.
What would you do instead, if you were king free of politics. And under your strategy, when and how do you see hospitals getting back to normal service?A vaccine will be almost impossible to test and approve with only small numbers of the virus about.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 13th July 08:25
Howard- said:
I've been following this thread for a long time now, and in general I agree with the rhetoric that we're overreacting as a nation. However there are certain things that make me wonder, mainly the death figures - our death toll and how it's the third highest in the world (why is that?), and the fact that almost 600,000 people round the world have died which appears to be much higher than the usual seasonal flu numbers.
Surely these deaths aren't all wrongly put down as being caused by Covid?
Most places are lying. I employ around 275 people here in 'stan. In the last 6 days, 4 of them have lost parents to "pneumonia" .....this would be more than 1% of the total deaths in the country due to CV19...... Surely these deaths aren't all wrongly put down as being caused by Covid?
Condi said:
Twinfan said:
Does she have the power to do that? Boris Johnson was quoted as saying "there's no border between England and Scotland" so I'm assuming it's just political posturing.
She can do that, health is a devolved matter. Boris is wrong. Howard- said:
I've been following this thread for a long time now, and in general I agree with the rhetoric that we're overreacting as a nation. However there are certain things that make me wonder, mainly the death figures - our death toll and how it's the third highest in the world (why is that?), and the fact that almost 600,000 people round the world have died which appears to be much higher than the usual seasonal flu numbers.
Surely these deaths aren't all wrongly put down as being caused by Covid?
Up to 650,000 deaths a year from Seasonal FluSurely these deaths aren't all wrongly put down as being caused by Covid?
https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/14-12-2017-up...
As a healthy adult when Flu hits you it can leave you bedridden for a week or more. If you are elderly and frail, or a young child, it can be lethal.
I am not saying that Covid-19 is only as dangerous as seasonal Flu. But if it is "only" 2-3 times as dangerous then perhaps a more rational response would be to bring in sensible measures to preserve lives rather than economic shutdown.
Edited by JagLover on Monday 13th July 08:37
Condi said:
Twinfan said:
Does she have the power to do that? Boris Johnson was quoted as saying "there's no border between England and Scotland" so I'm assuming it's just political posturing.
She can do that, health is a devolved matter. Boris is wrong. Sturgeon will inevitably climb down from what is an obvious tactic, and she'll be ridiculed when she does so.
Twinfan said:
Condi said:
Twinfan said:
Does she have the power to do that? Boris Johnson was quoted as saying "there's no border between England and Scotland" so I'm assuming it's just political posturing.
She can do that, health is a devolved matter. Boris is wrong. don'tbesilly said:
Condi said:
Twinfan said:
Does she have the power to do that? Boris Johnson was quoted as saying "there's no border between England and Scotland" so I'm assuming it's just political posturing.
She can do that, health is a devolved matter. Boris is wrong. Sturgeon will inevitably climb down from what is an obvious tactic, and she'll be ridiculed when she does so.
Howard- said:
I've been following this thread for a long time now, and in general I agree with the rhetoric that we're overreacting as a nation. However there are certain things that make me wonder, mainly the death figures - our death toll and how it's the third highest in the world (why is that?), and the fact that almost 600,000 people round the world have died which appears to be much higher than the usual seasonal flu numbers.
Surely these deaths aren't all wrongly put down as being caused by Covid?
Different ethnicity. Certain groups are more susceptible to CV19. It's no surprise Leicester is locked down. Large families, little social distancing, flagrant disregard for guidelines early on. Surely these deaths aren't all wrongly put down as being caused by Covid?
don'tbesilly said:
Regardless of whether Sturgeon is right or wrong, it seems like the possible policy which for many will be seen as nothing other than political point-scoring could well bite her back when people shun Scotland as a potential holiday destination, costing Scotland a tidy sum in lost revenue.
Sturgeon will inevitably climb down from what is an obvious tactic, and she'll be ridiculed when she does so.
If Scotland ever did become fully independent, it would face economic collapse within weeks. Most sane people know this, but some don’t care.Sturgeon will inevitably climb down from what is an obvious tactic, and she'll be ridiculed when she does so.
Condi said:
Twinfan said:
Condi said:
Twinfan said:
Does she have the power to do that? Boris Johnson was quoted as saying "there's no border between England and Scotland" so I'm assuming it's just political posturing.
She can do that, health is a devolved matter. Boris is wrong. Do they have to quarantine for 14 days every time they go to work?
That's one hell of a long commute!
As Mining Subsidence Man said, it's nonsense on stilts.
JagLover said:
Howard- said:
I've been following this thread for a long time now, and in general I agree with the rhetoric that we're overreacting as a nation. However there are certain things that make me wonder, mainly the death figures - our death toll and how it's the third highest in the world (why is that?), and the fact that almost 600,000 people round the world have died which appears to be much higher than the usual seasonal flu numbers.
Surely these deaths aren't all wrongly put down as being caused by Covid?
Up to 650,000 deaths a year from Seasonal FluSurely these deaths aren't all wrongly put down as being caused by Covid?
https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/14-12-2017-up...
As a healthy adult when Flu hits you it can leave you bedridden for a week or more. If you are elderly and frail, or a young child, it can be lethal.
I am not saying that Covid-19 is only as dangerous as seasonal Flu. But if it is "only" 2-3 times as dangerous then perhaps a more rational response would be to bring in sensible measures to preserve lives rather than economic shutdown.
Up to the end of week 26 (28th June 2020) we had 49,607 registered deaths involving COVID. This includes all deaths where it is mentioned on the death certificate, regardless of the underlying cause of death.
At that point, there were also 45,977 registered deaths from flu and pneumonia, but the 5 year average for these illnesses was 57,221.
So total deaths from COVID are considerable less than the deaths we typically see for flu and pneumonia, which attract almost zero attention from the general public.
We combine respiratory illness in the figures as we don't test for flu and it is different to separate from pneumonia. If we do the same with COVID the total for respiratory illnesses in this pandemic is 95,584, which is 38,363 above average.
Data from here:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...
Tyre Smoke said:
Different ethnicity. Certain groups are more susceptible to CV19. It's no surprise Leicester is locked down. Large families, little social distancing, flagrant disregard for guidelines early on.
And yet PHE couldn't identify and outbreak in Leicester and one of their suggestions was that the rise in cases was a function of increased testing capacity in the area.I tried "the new normal" yesterday down the pub, within 2 minutes I'd had enough and wanted to leave but I stuck at in and to be fair it wasn't that bad.
You had to order through an app called hopt and it didn't seem to cater for shandies so whilst my mate pissed about trying to get a drink I'd managed to down two pints, he wasn't happy at all. I actually preferred the table service to be honest but that was in a not very busy beer garden in blazing sun, not sure you would get the same effect in a cold damp packed Witherspoon's.
I can confirm that you can put any old b
ks into the name and phone number bit of the app when you order and still pay with your card, this is quite useful for avoiding being locked up for two weeks if someone in the pub sneezes.
You had to order through an app called hopt and it didn't seem to cater for shandies so whilst my mate pissed about trying to get a drink I'd managed to down two pints, he wasn't happy at all. I actually preferred the table service to be honest but that was in a not very busy beer garden in blazing sun, not sure you would get the same effect in a cold damp packed Witherspoon's.
I can confirm that you can put any old b
ks into the name and phone number bit of the app when you order and still pay with your card, this is quite useful for avoiding being locked up for two weeks if someone in the pub sneezes.tighnamara said:
Strange, every shop I have been in all customers have been wearing masks, thats in north east Scotland.
When you say “covered 70 miles” I am presuming this was driving and not your mileage inside shops......
You don’t have to wear them walking around the town.
Bit like Goodwood revival, your the odd one if you haven’t made the effort..........
Edited to add - I don’t know if the wearing of masks will / is making a difference but anything I can do to try and help hopefully makes a difference.
saw one person in my own town wearing a mask, none while passing through dundee and two in arbroath. maybe all the people i saw put them in their pockets as soon as they left the shops/businesses they had just left. quite a few families with kids leaving the amusement centre in arbroath when we passed on the return journey, none wearing masks or any masks visible.When you say “covered 70 miles” I am presuming this was driving and not your mileage inside shops......
You don’t have to wear them walking around the town.
Bit like Goodwood revival, your the odd one if you haven’t made the effort..........
Edited to add - I don’t know if the wearing of masks will / is making a difference but anything I can do to try and help hopefully makes a difference.
Edited by tighnamara on Sunday 12th July 21:54
i have no problem adopting any measure that will genuinely help, in the case of masks, outside of my local store and a friends fishing tackle shop i won't be visiting any other shops, so no risk from me.
Edited by wc98 on Monday 13th July 09:22
Fubar1977 said:
What about the many people who live in Scotland but work in England or vice versa?
Do they have to quarantine for 14 days every time they go to work?
That's one hell of a long commute!
As Mining Subsidence Man said, it's nonsense on stilts.
I'm not suggesting it is sensible, I'm saying what she can and can't do. On health matters (which this is one) she is in charge of what goes on North of the border, not Boris. Do they have to quarantine for 14 days every time they go to work?
That's one hell of a long commute!
As Mining Subsidence Man said, it's nonsense on stilts.
Fubar1977 said:
What about the many people who live in Scotland but work in England or vice versa?
Do they have to quarantine for 14 days every time they go to work?
That's one hell of a long commute!
As Mining Subsidence Man said, it's nonsense on stilts.
Everything isn't so binary. Even if there is only an 80% reduction in border traffic, that is still useful. You don't need hard borders. We have seen adherence to advisory rules is high. You can have soft rules in place, and achieve 95% of the results.Do they have to quarantine for 14 days every time they go to work?
That's one hell of a long commute!
As Mining Subsidence Man said, it's nonsense on stilts.
It's a matter of priorities but tourism seems screwed either way - look at spain and greece. So its sad - but I'd trade off tourism for shools and a lower case figure going into winter.
I think all this politicalising of masks etc is hugely off the mark. And more a sign of running out of ideas to explain the actions of nearly every nation on earth, than it is an accurate appraisal of reality.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 13th July 09:25
Some interesting stuff by the ex director of the Swiss Institute for Immunology translated here:
https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronav...
He is quite opinionated on the whole "novel" and "no immunity" claims, plus some useful explanations on immune system and PCR tests.
https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronav...
He is quite opinionated on the whole "novel" and "no immunity" claims, plus some useful explanations on immune system and PCR tests.
ant1973 said:
don'tbesilly said:
Condi said:
Twinfan said:
Does she have the power to do that? Boris Johnson was quoted as saying "there's no border between England and Scotland" so I'm assuming it's just political posturing.
She can do that, health is a devolved matter. Boris is wrong. Sturgeon will inevitably climb down from what is an obvious tactic, and she'll be ridiculed when she does so.
The basic premise that Scotland has somehow dealt with the pandemic better than England is sheer idiocy. The fact that people are apparently falling for it just shows how incredibly stupid the general public can be.
Its pretty damn obvious that Scotlands geographic isolation meant that the disease got to them later, at which point the initial reductions in travel and social activity were already making a big difference.That's it. Nothing clever.
You may as well impose a quarantine around London, or Manchester. Or the Cotswolds.
This is an orchestrated plan by Sturgeon, who from the outset has desperately tried to do things ever so slightly differently to Westminster. Wales has been just the same.
It's pathetic, playing politics with life and death.
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