CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 3)
Discussion
That was the other thing I remembered about the pub yesterday, upon leaving we both needed a piss but they operate a one in and one out policy so despite the two of us working together all day and then sitting together all evening at the pub they wouldn't let us both have a piss at the same time. You could see the toilet boys brain doing loop the loops trying to comprehend the situation we had put him in.
Condi said:
I'm not suggesting it is sensible, I'm saying what she can and can't do. On health matters (which this is one) she is in charge of what goes on North of the border, not Boris.
Yes but it's already been mentioned, she has no way to enforce it.With the Spain quarrantine issue she has the benefit of receiving details from the UK government (Border Force) of everybody entering the UK from Spain, and where they will be staying. (because they have to fill out a landing card).
No such data exists for driving from Cumbria to Dumfries, and she has no power to erect roadblocks and introduce entry requirements.
She could (subject to the normal test of proportionateness) make a regulation requireing anybody arriving in Scotland from England to quarantine for 14 days, but she would have absolutely no idea who it would apply to on the ground. She can't stop and search for Toarees.
grumbledoak said:
Some interesting stuff by the ex director of the Swiss Institute for Immunology translated here:
https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronav...
He is quite opinionated on the whole "novel" and "no immunity" claims, plus some useful explanations on immune system and PCR tests.
Well worth a readhttps://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronav...
He is quite opinionated on the whole "novel" and "no immunity" claims, plus some useful explanations on immune system and PCR tests.
hutchst said:
Condi said:
I'm not suggesting it is sensible, I'm saying what she can and can't do. On health matters (which this is one) she is in charge of what goes on North of the border, not Boris.
Yes but it's already been mentioned, she has no way to enforce it.With the Spain quarrantine issue she has the benefit of receiving details from the UK government (Border Force) of everybody entering the UK from Spain, and where they will be staying. (because they have to fill out a landing card).
No such data exists for driving from Cumbria to Dumfries, and she has no power to erect roadblocks and introduce entry requirements.
She could (subject to the normal test of proportionateness) make a regulation requireing anybody arriving in Scotland from England to quarantine for 14 days, but she would have absolutely no idea who it would apply to on the ground. She can't stop and search for Toarees.
hutchst said:
Condi said:
I'm not suggesting it is sensible, I'm saying what she can and can't do. On health matters (which this is one) she is in charge of what goes on North of the border, not Boris.
Yes but it's already been mentioned, she has no way to enforce it.With the Spain quarrantine issue she has the benefit of receiving details from the UK government (Border Force) of everybody entering the UK from Spain, and where they will be staying. (because they have to fill out a landing card).
No such data exists for driving from Cumbria to Dumfries, and she has no power to erect roadblocks and introduce entry requirements.
She could (subject to the normal test of proportionateness) make a regulation requireing anybody arriving in Scotland from England to quarantine for 14 days, but she would have absolutely no idea who it would apply to on the ground. She can't stop and search for Toarees.
Anyway, this is very hypothetical and I am in no way saying I support what she or the SNP does, but it seems some people are very misunderstood about what powers Holyrood have. Also having spent time up in Scotland recently, it is interesting to see how differently people are taking it up there, much more seriously with more adherence to the rules than England. Presumably due to the messaging/enforcement.
Again, I don't support what she has done and don't support much of what the SNP do, but speaking from a position of ignorance is not helpful.
Tyre Smoke said:
You are not required to fill out a landing card from Spain, or anywhere else in the EU (yet) are you?
Passenger Health Information Form is I believe the technical term. Still required even though you're exempt from quarantine from most countries now. https://www.gov.uk/provide-journey-contact-details...
Edited by Condi on Monday 13th July 09:46
grumbledoak said:
Some interesting stuff by the ex director of the Swiss Institute for Immunology translated here:
https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronav...
He is quite opinionated on the whole "novel" and "no immunity" claims, plus some useful explanations on immune system and PCR tests.
The general jist from that article is that this is a seasonal, cold-like virus and our bodies most probably have some in-built immunity to it. https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronav...
He is quite opinionated on the whole "novel" and "no immunity" claims, plus some useful explanations on immune system and PCR tests.
There is also an implication that Sars-1 countries may have more inbuilt immunity than we do and the 14 day maximum incubation time is because we have antibodies that are keeping the virus at bay in the background.
cool stuff.
Condi said:
I'm not suggesting it is sensible, I'm saying what she can and can't do. On health matters (which this is one) she is in charge of what goes on North of the border, not Boris.
I pretty sure he can over rule her.The UK Parliament retains the power to legislate in devolved areas.
Tyre Smoke said:
You are not required to fill out a landing card from Spain, or anywhere else in the EU (yet) are you?
You are actually. Well, not quite a landing card, but you have to fill in a form as you enter quite a few countries now. I went to Geneva last week and had to fill in the same type of information you might expect on a landing card e.g. where are you staying, how long are you staying, when are you leaving etc.And when I travelled back to the UK on the Eurotunnel, I had to complete a form with the same type of information and show it to the passport person. No form completed, no travel on Eurotunnel.
JagLover said:
Elysium said:
I saw this on twitter earlier:
https://twitter.com/mlevitt_np2013/status/12821725...
A paper from 1973 documenting a spontaneous outbreak of coronavirus (not this one) in a group that had been in total isolation in the Antarctic for 17 weeks.
No one really knows what happens to seasonal viruses between outbreaks, but it is thought that they can sit dormant for long periods.
Fascinating stuffhttps://twitter.com/mlevitt_np2013/status/12821725...
A paper from 1973 documenting a spontaneous outbreak of coronavirus (not this one) in a group that had been in total isolation in the Antarctic for 17 weeks.
No one really knows what happens to seasonal viruses between outbreaks, but it is thought that they can sit dormant for long periods.
grumbledoak said:
Some interesting stuff by the ex director of the Swiss Institute for Immunology translated here:
https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronav...
He is quite opinionated on the whole "novel" and "no immunity" claims, plus some useful explanations on immune system and PCR tests.
Keep up at the back https://medium.com/@vernunftundrichtigkeit/coronav...
He is quite opinionated on the whole "novel" and "no immunity" claims, plus some useful explanations on immune system and PCR tests.
I linked that a couple of days ago. 
Carl_Manchester said:
There is also an implication that Sars-1 countries may have more inbuilt immunity than we do and the 14 day maximum incubation time is because we have antibodies that are keeping the virus at bay in the background.
Well it's not all that useful the. Given sars1 was transmissive mainly only when severely symptomatic and case numbers were relatively very small (7k globally) before the outbreak was contained. Sars1 countries (hk/Taiwan/Singapore) have simply reacted much more strongly in trying to isolate and shut down outbreaks. That is the difference not immunity.irc said:
Lo ets not forget many of the stats are deaths with Covid not from Covid. Actual exsmpke. Example. Patient in hospital for emergency heart surgery. Dies from heart complications. Swabbed for Covid while in hospital. Tests positive. Goes down as Covid death.
My BIL died during the pandemic. Cause of death COPD, pending covid investigation.
They never did investigate and now he has been cremated no comeback. His death went on the Covid statistics.
No mention of his poor physical health caused by years of drug use. Signing himself out of hospital with suspected pneumonia. He did himself no favours.
wc98 said:
maybe all the people i saw put them in their pockets as soon as they left the shops/businesses they had just left.
This is what I noticed over the weekend - generally grabbing it by the front piece (i.e. the damp bit), folding it up & putting it in their pocket either as soon as they leave or just as they were reaching the exit. Honestly, the number of people using a mask "correctly" - i.e. disposable mask, covering the nose, actually looking fresh, put on & off by not touching the face piece and not fiddling with it once put on must be about 1-2% at the absolute most. Mandating these things is doing more harm than good, especially at the very low current levels of prevalence.Edited by wc98 on Monday 13th July 09:22
Uggers said:
My BIL died during the pandemic.
Cause of death COPD, pending covid investigation.
They never did investigate and now he has been cremated no comeback. His death went on the Covid statistics.
No mention of his poor physical health caused by years of drug use. Signing himself out of hospital with suspected pneumonia. He did himself no favours.
Sorry for the death of your BILCause of death COPD, pending covid investigation.
They never did investigate and now he has been cremated no comeback. His death went on the Covid statistics.
No mention of his poor physical health caused by years of drug use. Signing himself out of hospital with suspected pneumonia. He did himself no favours.
However it re-affirms my own fears regarding the death rates - not enough proper testing , ignoring years and years of bad lifestyle decisions on account of Covid-19 - etc etc.
I really hate how life is at the moment and honestly it is really dragging me down even more than normal.
I have to work in a Hospital for a week shortly, not bothered about the work, the guy there I have a really good relationship with, but the WHOLE thing in a mask , forced (not optional) is not something I at all am looking forward to. Infact I'm getting anxiety just thinking about it.
I read a story that in NZ they are talking about possibly using a quarantine on people arriving for "many months, if not years".
WHY? When will this bull s
t stop - this is a very un-deadly disease to which nearly everyone recovers fully and only a very small number of people are impacted, most of which are old or already in very poor health.Why are we catering to the lowest common denominator? When have we ever done this in any other comparable way?
When can one walk down the street without a mask without being looked at like you have a white hood on, and a confederate flag in your hand?
When will the public wake up to this virus!? The Government and media have spent months and no doubts millions of pounds on marketing and advertising saying how dangerous it is.
Why? Are they just testing to see how much the population can be manipulated? How prepared people are "to fall in line" ?
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