CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 3)
Discussion
PeteinSQ said:
It absolutely astounds me that the government think they can somehow force office workers to go back to the office when there doesn't appear to be any benefit to the worker or even the employee that they comply. I'm sorry but I couldn't care less if the cafes close to my office have to close. I'm saving a fortune on commuting costs, I'm spending more time with my children and I'm eating healthier food. All with a lower carbon footprint.
The economy is going to have to change and the city center will just have to go the same way that coal mines did.
What do you do?The economy is going to have to change and the city center will just have to go the same way that coal mines did.
As most of fhe economy is interdependent. If the cafe near to your house closes, then commercial and private property has a crash like never before. The workers in the cafe and the owner have no money to support other businesses.
And eventually it affects your company, and your pension. And your taxes rise to pay the cafe employees unemployment benefits.
hyphen said:
PeteinSQ said:
It absolutely astounds me that the government think they can somehow force office workers to go back to the office when there doesn't appear to be any benefit to the worker or even the employee that they comply. I'm sorry but I couldn't care less if the cafes close to my office have to close. I'm saving a fortune on commuting costs, I'm spending more time with my children and I'm eating healthier food. All with a lower carbon footprint.
The economy is going to have to change and the city center will just have to go the same way that coal mines did.
What do you do?The economy is going to have to change and the city center will just have to go the same way that coal mines did.
As most of fhe economy is interdependent. If the cafe near to your house closes, then commercial and private property has a crash like never before. The workers in the cafe and the owner have no money to support other businesses.
And eventually it affects your company, and your pension. And your taxes rise to pay the cafe employees unemployment benefits.
kingston12 said:
I feel the same way. I’m about to start a new job, and I think I’m going to find it much harder to integrate into the team properly when I have never met any of them and am not likely to for months.
It would be slightly easier in a team that I was already a part of, but I still think the ideal is being in the office a couple of times a week.
The problem is that even a couple of times a week in the office probably isn’t enough to save a lot of the supporting infrastructure that has built up.
I agree with you that some time together as a team is probably essential. Your last point is also correct. A 60% reduction in the number of office workers in town at any one time will probably be enough to kill off a lot of cafes etc and will perhaps bankrupt TFL. It would be slightly easier in a team that I was already a part of, but I still think the ideal is being in the office a couple of times a week.
The problem is that even a couple of times a week in the office probably isn’t enough to save a lot of the supporting infrastructure that has built up.
But that's tough. We're not actually slaves who have to do what we're told.
hyphen said:
What do you do?
As most of fhe economy is interdependent. If the cafe near to your house closes, then commercial and private property has a crash like never before. The workers in the cafe and the owner have no money to support other businesses.
And eventually it affects your company, and your pension. And your taxes rise to pay the cafe employees unemployment benefits.
I set prices for pharmaceuticals. As most of fhe economy is interdependent. If the cafe near to your house closes, then commercial and private property has a crash like never before. The workers in the cafe and the owner have no money to support other businesses.
And eventually it affects your company, and your pension. And your taxes rise to pay the cafe employees unemployment benefits.
I'm not stupid enough to not realise everything is interconnected but lots of industries have been shuttered over the years for various reasons. That's what happens when the economy evolves.
markyb_lcy said:
RSTurboPaul said:
Do as I say, plebs , not as I do!
Who (normal) has a parking space in the City?!
And is prepared to pay for the £15 a day Ccharge, which now with extended hours cannot even be avoided by travelling in early and leaving late.Who (normal) has a parking space in the City?!
bodhi said:
So it doesn't matter if thousands lose their jobs, you're OK jack - is that the summary I can get from your post?
Personally, if work told me they were opening the office on Monday I'd be straight in - not 5 days a week, but a couple of days to meet up with the team and get a bit more social contact than just the wife and the cat would be appreciated. Whilst we can function from home, we're all missing the conversations outside of the usual Google Meet calls - the chats in the kitchen, outside smoking etc etc.
A variation in routine would be nice too. At the moment every day is get up, go downstairs to home office, log on - whereas before my routine would vary depending on if and when I had to be into the office, if I was travelling that day, where I was going to etc.
There's also the issue of face to face contact being far more valuable with customers in a sales environment - the unspoken communication etc. It kind of works remotely, but not nearly as well as it did when we could go onsite.
And that's without even considering the people working round the office - cafes, restaurants, pubs - even the office staff themselves.
So enough of this horrific, dystopian, antisocial new normal. Let's get back to work.
So let me get this straight, do you disadvantage yourself to support other parts of the economy out of the goodness of your heart?Personally, if work told me they were opening the office on Monday I'd be straight in - not 5 days a week, but a couple of days to meet up with the team and get a bit more social contact than just the wife and the cat would be appreciated. Whilst we can function from home, we're all missing the conversations outside of the usual Google Meet calls - the chats in the kitchen, outside smoking etc etc.
A variation in routine would be nice too. At the moment every day is get up, go downstairs to home office, log on - whereas before my routine would vary depending on if and when I had to be into the office, if I was travelling that day, where I was going to etc.
There's also the issue of face to face contact being far more valuable with customers in a sales environment - the unspoken communication etc. It kind of works remotely, but not nearly as well as it did when we could go onsite.
And that's without even considering the people working round the office - cafes, restaurants, pubs - even the office staff themselves.
So enough of this horrific, dystopian, antisocial new normal. Let's get back to work.
The parts about face to face contact do make sense but cafes just like steel mills and coal mines aren't charities. People don't want to spend £6k a year commuting into London every day and only seeing their kids on the weekend so that pret doesn't go bust.
They might think it is worth coming in a couple of times a week though.
ORD said:
hyphen said:
PeteinSQ said:
It absolutely astounds me that the government think they can somehow force office workers to go back to the office when there doesn't appear to be any benefit to the worker or even the employee that they comply. I'm sorry but I couldn't care less if the cafes close to my office have to close. I'm saving a fortune on commuting costs, I'm spending more time with my children and I'm eating healthier food. All with a lower carbon footprint.
The economy is going to have to change and the city center will just have to go the same way that coal mines did.
What do you do?The economy is going to have to change and the city center will just have to go the same way that coal mines did.
As most of fhe economy is interdependent. If the cafe near to your house closes, then commercial and private property has a crash like never before. The workers in the cafe and the owner have no money to support other businesses.
And eventually it affects your company, and your pension. And your taxes rise to pay the cafe employees unemployment benefits.
PeteinSQ said:
I hope those of you that demand we all go into work to keep Pret going were as vociferous at defending the rights of the typing pool from the advent of the word processor and the photocopier.
if it were just pret you would have a point but we're currently looking at all retail and hospitality (and ?) in cities closing forever. That's a whole lot of people and their suppliers who are going to be out of work.Now we have 30% out of 50,000 children tested in Florida have come back with positive results.
What is it, 6 weeks or so until schools go back. Doesn't bode well for that happening if this sort of stat is being bandied about.
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/pr...
What is it, 6 weeks or so until schools go back. Doesn't bode well for that happening if this sort of stat is being bandied about.
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/pr...
isaldiri said:
markyb_lcy said:
RSTurboPaul said:
Do as I say, plebs , not as I do!
Who (normal) has a parking space in the City?!
And is prepared to pay for the £15 a day Ccharge, which now with extended hours cannot even be avoided by travelling in early and leaving late.Who (normal) has a parking space in the City?!
I used to work in an office near Bank where we had three unallocated parking spaces directly below a 600 person office. They were bookable and free, but hardly anyone ever used them.
I used one through a busy period where I was starting really early and finishing really late and it worked well.
Then I booked one to use on a normal 8.30-6.00 day and it was a nightmare. It took me hours to get there and back, so I wouldn’t do it again unless CV19 has reduced London traffic enough in the long term which I don’t think it will.
kingston12 said:
For a lot of people, it will be more about dealing with congestion itself than the charge.
I used to work in an office near Bank where we had three unallocated parking spaces directly below a 600 person office. They were bookable and free, but hardly anyone ever used them.
I used one through a busy period where I was starting really early and finishing really late and it worked well.
Then I booked one to use on a normal 8.30-6.00 day and it was a nightmare. It took me hours to get there and back, so I wouldn’t do it again unless CV19 has reduced London traffic enough in the long term which I don’t think it will.
Right now central london traffic is very very light. If you ever wanted to drive in, now would be the time. It's busier than in April/May but it's acceptable mostly now. I used to work in an office near Bank where we had three unallocated parking spaces directly below a 600 person office. They were bookable and free, but hardly anyone ever used them.
I used one through a busy period where I was starting really early and finishing really late and it worked well.
Then I booked one to use on a normal 8.30-6.00 day and it was a nightmare. It took me hours to get there and back, so I wouldn’t do it again unless CV19 has reduced London traffic enough in the long term which I don’t think it will.
Although you best do it soon because once traffic returns to anything even like normal it's going to be vastly worse than previously given how much the roads are being buggered around for cycle lanes/social distancing. Some of the already busiest roads (park lane northbound/euston road eastbound) have had lanes chopped off to single lane entry. If you are familiar with the roads I'm sure you can imagine the utter frigging mess that will happen if traffic returns to normal.....
Just sat through 20 minutes of how we'll be going back to the office. Basically we won't be, firstly we were polled into red/amber/green
Green - Want to go back now
Amber - want to go back but can't (childcare etc)
Red - Nopes - vulnerable, live with vulnerable, or just too nervous
Most fit into the amber category with childcare being the main problem. Green was about 20%. They included some context with comments and I was disappointed at the number of "it's too soon/I'm scared" type feedback.
Then they showed some pictures of the office. Yellow/Black tape everywhere, most small meeting rooms closed, most desks taped off. Rules include no chatting in communal areas like the stairs, no gatherings, wipe down of shared services like kitchens, desks, printers. Pre-book the visit by Thursday the week prior. I won't be going to that even when schools are back and I'm able to, what a sh*t environment, the whole point of the office is human contact and they've wiped that out.
So that's an office with capacity for around 100 people remaining mostly empty until Sept at the earliest. That also means nothing for the local sarnie shop or the nearby supermarket/retail park. Plus us ordering grub for customer visits (banned), or pizza for lunch and learn sessions, the list goes on.
Green - Want to go back now
Amber - want to go back but can't (childcare etc)
Red - Nopes - vulnerable, live with vulnerable, or just too nervous
Most fit into the amber category with childcare being the main problem. Green was about 20%. They included some context with comments and I was disappointed at the number of "it's too soon/I'm scared" type feedback.
Then they showed some pictures of the office. Yellow/Black tape everywhere, most small meeting rooms closed, most desks taped off. Rules include no chatting in communal areas like the stairs, no gatherings, wipe down of shared services like kitchens, desks, printers. Pre-book the visit by Thursday the week prior. I won't be going to that even when schools are back and I'm able to, what a sh*t environment, the whole point of the office is human contact and they've wiped that out.
So that's an office with capacity for around 100 people remaining mostly empty until Sept at the earliest. That also means nothing for the local sarnie shop or the nearby supermarket/retail park. Plus us ordering grub for customer visits (banned), or pizza for lunch and learn sessions, the list goes on.
ORD said:
The Govt seems to have missed that it has at its disposal the one thing that would actually get people back to work - being honest about the actual risks posed by this disease. Drop the hysteria. Drop the NHS cultism. Just tell people it’s not much a risk to them. Tell the f
king truth!
Well quite. What we are seeing now is the nonsense of the government's suppression/elimination approach.king truth!Boris & Co. are essentially saying "we must eliminate this silent killer because it's dangerous. So masks in shops and on public transport, social distancing, perspex screens, no mass gatherings............."
But Boris & Co. are also saying "get back to work folks! Shop like crazy! Go to the pub! Schools back in full in September!"
Talk about mixed messaging, but the government is too dimwitted to realise it. Which is why they look like a bunch of floundering buffoons, unable to agree a clear exit path and making random, contradictory statements.
Brave Fart said:
ORD said:
The Govt seems to have missed that it has at its disposal the one thing that would actually get people back to work - being honest about the actual risks posed by this disease. Drop the hysteria. Drop the NHS cultism. Just tell people it’s not much a risk to them. Tell the fking truth!
Well quite. What we are seeing now is the nonsense of the government's suppression/elimination approach.king truth!Boris & Co. are essentially saying "we must eliminate this silent killer because it's dangerous. So masks in shops and on public transport, social distancing, perspex screens, no mass gatherings............."
But Boris & Co. are also saying "get back to work folks! Shop like crazy! Go to the pub! Schools back in full in September!"
Talk about mixed messaging, but the government is too dimwitted to realise it. Which is why they look like a bunch of floundering buffoons, unable to agree a clear exit path and making random, contradictory statements.
PeteinSQ said:
I agree with you that some time together as a team is probably essential. Your last point is also correct. A 60% reduction in the number of office workers in town at any one time will probably be enough to kill off a lot of cafes etc and will perhaps bankrupt TFL.
But that's tough. We're not actually slaves who have to do what we're told.
Wrong, a large percentage of people are debt slaves and the irony is they voluntarily agreed to it. The government want everyone to have a massive mortgage and take out as much credit as possible. They want you to sign up to paying for everything monthly, rather than owning things outright.But that's tough. We're not actually slaves who have to do what we're told.
If you have a massive mortgage, monthly Sky, Spotify, Phone, Gym membership, monthly loan repayments, monthly car lease/PCP payments then you can never afford to stop working.
They need their little worker debt slaves, working until the day they die as they own nothing and can't retire as they have the monthly bills to pay.
What would happen if everyone stopped consuming, didn't take out any debt and paid off their mortgage by the time they were 45. That's right, a massive group of people who would get to 50, think F*** this and just not bother going to work anymore.
Andy888 said:
Now we have 30% out of 50,000 children tested in Florida have come back with positive results.
What is it, 6 weeks or so until schools go back. Doesn't bode well for that happening if this sort of stat is being bandied about.
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/pr...
Interesting. That's an extraordinarily high figure given kids in general have hardly been infected generally so far.What is it, 6 weeks or so until schools go back. Doesn't bode well for that happening if this sort of stat is being bandied about.
https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/pr...
toastyhamster said:
Just sat through 20 minutes of how we'll be going back to the office. Basically we won't be, firstly we were polled into red/amber/green
Green - Want to go back now
Amber - want to go back but can't (childcare etc)
Red - Nopes - vulnerable, live with vulnerable, or just too nervous
Most fit into the amber category with childcare being the main problem. Green was about 20%. They included some context with comments and I was disappointed at the number of "it's too soon/I'm scared" type feedback.
Then they showed some pictures of the office. Yellow/Black tape everywhere, most small meeting rooms closed, most desks taped off. Rules include no chatting in communal areas like the stairs, no gatherings, wipe down of shared services like kitchens, desks, printers. Pre-book the visit by Thursday the week prior. I won't be going to that even when schools are back and I'm able to, what a sh*t environment, the whole point of the office is human contact and they've wiped that out.
So that's an office with capacity for around 100 people remaining mostly empty until Sept at the earliest. That also means nothing for the local sarnie shop or the nearby supermarket/retail park. Plus us ordering grub for customer visits (banned), or pizza for lunch and learn sessions, the list goes on.
Similar to our office. Tape everywhere in the bogs all but one urinal tapped off, one way systems etc. For those who need to go in to do hands on work (Engineering R&D) it's a week look ahead to permission the work to keep the head count down. Basically go in and do the practical work then go home i.e. no logging on in the office etc. I'm fully expecting to be working from home for the foreseeable hoping that I still have a job to worry about tbh......Green - Want to go back now
Amber - want to go back but can't (childcare etc)
Red - Nopes - vulnerable, live with vulnerable, or just too nervous
Most fit into the amber category with childcare being the main problem. Green was about 20%. They included some context with comments and I was disappointed at the number of "it's too soon/I'm scared" type feedback.
Then they showed some pictures of the office. Yellow/Black tape everywhere, most small meeting rooms closed, most desks taped off. Rules include no chatting in communal areas like the stairs, no gatherings, wipe down of shared services like kitchens, desks, printers. Pre-book the visit by Thursday the week prior. I won't be going to that even when schools are back and I'm able to, what a sh*t environment, the whole point of the office is human contact and they've wiped that out.
So that's an office with capacity for around 100 people remaining mostly empty until Sept at the earliest. That also means nothing for the local sarnie shop or the nearby supermarket/retail park. Plus us ordering grub for customer visits (banned), or pizza for lunch and learn sessions, the list goes on.
It will be brutal come late Autumn and into winter.
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