Has David Starkey gone mad?
Discussion
JuniorD said:
I see two ways of interpreting his original words.
1) he considers the black people who survived the slave trade as damn people for surviving
2) he was using the dismissive vernacular of the people who enslaved the black people
I find it hard to go past 1)
Given that the point he was discussing was whether the Atlantic slave trade constituted genocide, why is1) he considers the black people who survived the slave trade as damn people for surviving
2) he was using the dismissive vernacular of the people who enslaved the black people
I find it hard to go past 1)
3) The number of black people who survived undermines the argument that genocide took place.
so implausible?
Dr Jekyll said:
JuniorD said:
I see two ways of interpreting his original words.
1) he considers the black people who survived the slave trade as damn people for surviving
2) he was using the dismissive vernacular of the people who enslaved the black people
I find it hard to go past 1)
Given that the point he was discussing was whether the Atlantic slave trade constituted genocide, why is1) he considers the black people who survived the slave trade as damn people for surviving
2) he was using the dismissive vernacular of the people who enslaved the black people
I find it hard to go past 1)
3) The number of black people who survived undermines the argument that genocide took place.
so implausible?
Personally I don't think the specific act of transporting slaves across the Atlantic was genocide per se as these poor wretched slaves were valuable assets to the traders, however that is not to deny what intentional murder may have taken place in the areas where they were first captured. Perhaps Starkey was contrasting the deaths of black slaves against conventionally understood acts of genocide, some examples he could easily have referred but didn't include the establishment of the Boer concentration camps by the British, the Amritsar massacre by the British, the quashing of the Mau Mau Uprising, again by the British, and arguably their* complicity in the Irish and Indian famines.
- The British
WJNB said:
He is merely vocalising the views of what I suspect is the majority but who have been gagged & have to keep such thoughts to themselves & just smile & tolerate.
Which views are those? I'd have thought most people haven't previously thought about the distinction between the slave trade and genocide. I also don't think the majority hold overwhelming negative views of black people. JuniorD said:
.................................Perhaps Starkey was contrasting the deaths of black slaves against conventionally understood acts of genocide, some examples he could easily have referred but didn't include the establishment of the Boer concentration camps by the British, the Amritsar massacre by the British, the quashing of the Mau Mau Uprising, again by the British, and arguably their* complicity in the Irish and Indian famines.
Not wishing to go off topic, but none of those are conventionally understood as acts of genocide.Dr Jekyll said:
JuniorD said:
.................................Perhaps Starkey was contrasting the deaths of black slaves against conventionally understood acts of genocide, some examples he could easily have referred but didn't include the establishment of the Boer concentration camps by the British, the Amritsar massacre by the British, the quashing of the Mau Mau Uprising, again by the British, and arguably their* complicity in the Irish and Indian famines.
Not wishing to go off topic, but none of those are conventionally understood as acts of genocide.History is a complex old thing and, I fear, doesn't suit those who like to shout.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:WJNB said:
He is merely vocalising the views of what I suspect is the majority but who have been gagged & have to keep such thoughts to themselves & just smile & tolerate.
I don't understand.What views?
s2art said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:WJNB said:
He is merely vocalising the views of what I suspect is the majority but who have been gagged & have to keep such thoughts to themselves & just smile & tolerate.
I don't understand.What views?
The UN definition of genocide is:
...acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
_____-
The purpose of American / Caribbean slavery was to work the tobacco, cotton and sugar plantations. A totally different sort of evil.
Starkey must have had a senior moment if the best argument he could come up with to make that point - especially in the current situation where eggshells are being trodden on - is that so many damn blacks survived.
...acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
_____-
The purpose of American / Caribbean slavery was to work the tobacco, cotton and sugar plantations. A totally different sort of evil.
Starkey must have had a senior moment if the best argument he could come up with to make that point - especially in the current situation where eggshells are being trodden on - is that so many damn blacks survived.
With the caveat I haven't heard the entire interview this seems like crazytown taken at face value 
Darren Grimes under police investigation after David Starkey interview
Darren Grimes under police investigation after David Starkey interview
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: With the caveat I haven't heard the entire interview this seems like crazytown taken at face value
Darren Grimes under police investigation after David Starkey interview
The world is crazytown at the moment. Darren Grimes under police investigation after David Starkey interview
The feckin interview was months ago and nobody gives a toss.
Complete waste of resources.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff