Discussion
Hi all,
Been reading the forums and watching endless youtube videos on Porsches. I've been looking for a fun weekend car that I may track at least once. You've got to track the car once, right?
I've been thinking of a manual 997.2 CS or a 987.2 S. I saw this advert last night for a Cayman which looks like an interesting spec and great condition https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202... Sports Chrono, LSD, PASM. The only thing it looks like it's missing from my point of view is a sports exhaust. I checked Parkers for the price and it does look strong. Do people put any store in Parkers, or is it never accurate?
I told my girlfriend that I was thinking of buying it and she said 'please buy it!' I think she thinks I'll stop obsessing about Porsches if I've actually got one. I'm not so sure about it.
Has anybody good any advice on the spec or some other examples it might be worth looking at?
Douglas.
Been reading the forums and watching endless youtube videos on Porsches. I've been looking for a fun weekend car that I may track at least once. You've got to track the car once, right?
I've been thinking of a manual 997.2 CS or a 987.2 S. I saw this advert last night for a Cayman which looks like an interesting spec and great condition https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202... Sports Chrono, LSD, PASM. The only thing it looks like it's missing from my point of view is a sports exhaust. I checked Parkers for the price and it does look strong. Do people put any store in Parkers, or is it never accurate?
I told my girlfriend that I was thinking of buying it and she said 'please buy it!' I think she thinks I'll stop obsessing about Porsches if I've actually got one. I'm not so sure about it.
Has anybody good any advice on the spec or some other examples it might be worth looking at?
Douglas.
I wouldn't get hung up on the sports exhaust. It's a personal preference but unless it makes the car go faster (which I *think* the sports exhaust doesn't) then in my opinion it is just window dressing.
The price looks quite strong but it has low miles and you will pay a premium for that. My uncle recently paid £18k for a 30k miles Gen 2 2.9 Boxster so £23k for a Cayman S may be about right. Somebody more knowledgeable will be along soon to correct me.
The thing I would enquire about is the "full service history." Everybody seems to have their own opinion about what this means but at that price I would like to see OPC servicing at the recommended schedule (in this case, it will most likely be based on time and so you should have at least 4-5 stamps). For my fun cars, I tend to look towards the bottom of the market (tinkering with them is part of the fun for me) but even so a car which has gaps or has been serviced at 2 years old by "Mick's Discount Chop Shop" is a big no no. It is not the quality of the servicing that concerns me but rather the attitude of the owner (if they can't be bothered to pay for main dealer servicing on a 2 year old Porsche, what else have they skimped on?). Despite being a fundamentally cheap guy, I always pay to have my main car serviced on time and nearly always by a main dealer (I do the Porsche myself but that is because a) it is worth sweet FA and b) I like to know what needs attention in the next month/6 months/year).
Good luck!
The price looks quite strong but it has low miles and you will pay a premium for that. My uncle recently paid £18k for a 30k miles Gen 2 2.9 Boxster so £23k for a Cayman S may be about right. Somebody more knowledgeable will be along soon to correct me.
The thing I would enquire about is the "full service history." Everybody seems to have their own opinion about what this means but at that price I would like to see OPC servicing at the recommended schedule (in this case, it will most likely be based on time and so you should have at least 4-5 stamps). For my fun cars, I tend to look towards the bottom of the market (tinkering with them is part of the fun for me) but even so a car which has gaps or has been serviced at 2 years old by "Mick's Discount Chop Shop" is a big no no. It is not the quality of the servicing that concerns me but rather the attitude of the owner (if they can't be bothered to pay for main dealer servicing on a 2 year old Porsche, what else have they skimped on?). Despite being a fundamentally cheap guy, I always pay to have my main car serviced on time and nearly always by a main dealer (I do the Porsche myself but that is because a) it is worth sweet FA and b) I like to know what needs attention in the next month/6 months/year).
Good luck!
On the face of it it seems a good'un. Decent spec. I note the N-rated tyres. Not sure about price. Check out ads for similar cars on AT and PH.
What's the warranty situation? Most dealers will include some sort of warranty. An official Porsche extended warranty will be about £1K/year BTW.
What's the warranty situation? Most dealers will include some sort of warranty. An official Porsche extended warranty will be about £1K/year BTW.
I have a different view on sports exhaust, which is that the sense of speed is more important than the speed itself... particularly on our restricted roads.
So if the aural pleasure of a fruity exhaust makes you feel more engaged in the drive at road speeds than without (which a good one usually does), then it's a must-have.
So if the aural pleasure of a fruity exhaust makes you feel more engaged in the drive at road speeds than without (which a good one usually does), then it's a must-have.
Thank you all so much for your responses.
LennyM1984 said:
The thing I would enquire about is the "full service history."
Sounds like good advice. The ad says full service history, but it's a good idea to actually verify the service history. Sounds obvious now you say it! The tires look like they are in good nick. I checked out the MOT history and the tires were replaced whilst still only in the advisory so that's a good sign. Also it's good the disks and brake pads have been replaced, but it is approaching the 40K major service which will presumably have some expensive attached beyond just the cost of serivce.Maxym said:
What's the warranty situation? Most dealers will include some sort of warranty. An official Porsche extended warranty will be about £1K/year BTW.
This car is listed as a private sale, so no warranty. Can you get a Porsche extended warranty if you don't buy the car from an OPC? I've also seen you can get some third party warranties from companies such as motoreasy. Do you have any experience of these? There's probably another thread I can read somewhere.n12maser said:
I have a different view on sports exhaust, which is that the sense of speed is more important than the speed itself... particularly on our restricted roads.
So if the aural pleasure of a fruity exhaust makes you feel more engaged in the drive at road speeds than without (which a good one usually does), then it's a must-have.
If it can improve my driving pleasure at slower speeds, that has to be a good thing! I think you're right about the sense of speed being the most important as well as having usable power. One of the appeal of the naturally aspirated older cars to me is they're not stupid fast. So if the aural pleasure of a fruity exhaust makes you feel more engaged in the drive at road speeds than without (which a good one usually does), then it's a must-have.
woollyjoe said:
If you're also considering the 997.2 C2 manual - get this.
It's a sweet engine, under valued (only because it is 3.6 instead of the 3.8 S), has 4 seats and is just a tonne of character for the car.
Interesting thought. I should go and test drive one for sure.It's a sweet engine, under valued (only because it is 3.6 instead of the 3.8 S), has 4 seats and is just a tonne of character for the car.
oldmanskateclub said:
I told my girlfriend that I was thinking of buying it and she said 'please buy it!' I think she thinks I'll stop obsessing about Porsches if I've actually got one. I'm not so sure about it.
My wife said the same, very supportive. On the basis I'd shut up once I had one. Not happened yet!Extended warranties available. Porsche one the best but the most expensive. To get it the car needs to go through a 111-point check at an OPC - cost about 200 quid IIRC and anything wrong rectified.
An OP warranty can be transferred if you buy from a private seller or from a dealer selling on a SOR basis.
An OP warranty can be transferred if you buy from a private seller or from a dealer selling on a SOR basis.
Personally I think it looks like a nice car but would think it's slightly over-priced given the spec. Examples of what it's missing against comparable cars in it's price range are heated seats / nav / climate control / base audio system - not even the ASP (none of these are particularly important from a driving point of view but do make the car nicer to live with day to day - especially the heated seats)
I would also double check whether it actually has the LSD specced from factory as you can't really tell unless you look at the option codes from the side of the door and it was a rarely specced option.
PASM is a nice option but I think this is overrated and can limit your choices - I daily mine without PASM on 19inch wheels in London (the worst ride combination according to PH) and the ride has never bothered me. Who buys a sports car and expects it to ride like a limo anyway?!
I think the seller has priced at this range due to the low mileage, a 40k service is the major one + spark plugs & brake fluid change (if they haven't been done previously), when I had this done to my Cayman it was £1k from an OPC. When looking at service history I wouldn't place that much importance on full OPC history, just make sure if it had work done from elsewhere in the past that it's from a reputable specialist. I always viewed that if the seller kept the invoices of the service work during their ownership that would be the best bet - anyone can stamp a service book and say it's been done..
Other points to check are front condensors - they get battered by stones and may require replacing at some stage.
I also wouldn't place any importance on N rated tyres - I don't understand peoples obsession with them, for a 987.2 Cayman the only N-rated tyres are old Michelin PS2's which are vastly outdated. A set of PS4S is a much better option better wet and dry grip / more efficient to boot. Regarding warranty - that is up to you. Personally I didn't bother as gen 2 cars are fairly reliable and the most expensive issues tend to be the front condensors which can be around £1.5kish to replace.
I would also double check whether it actually has the LSD specced from factory as you can't really tell unless you look at the option codes from the side of the door and it was a rarely specced option.
PASM is a nice option but I think this is overrated and can limit your choices - I daily mine without PASM on 19inch wheels in London (the worst ride combination according to PH) and the ride has never bothered me. Who buys a sports car and expects it to ride like a limo anyway?!
I think the seller has priced at this range due to the low mileage, a 40k service is the major one + spark plugs & brake fluid change (if they haven't been done previously), when I had this done to my Cayman it was £1k from an OPC. When looking at service history I wouldn't place that much importance on full OPC history, just make sure if it had work done from elsewhere in the past that it's from a reputable specialist. I always viewed that if the seller kept the invoices of the service work during their ownership that would be the best bet - anyone can stamp a service book and say it's been done..
Other points to check are front condensors - they get battered by stones and may require replacing at some stage.
I also wouldn't place any importance on N rated tyres - I don't understand peoples obsession with them, for a 987.2 Cayman the only N-rated tyres are old Michelin PS2's which are vastly outdated. A set of PS4S is a much better option better wet and dry grip / more efficient to boot. Regarding warranty - that is up to you. Personally I didn't bother as gen 2 cars are fairly reliable and the most expensive issues tend to be the front condensors which can be around £1.5kish to replace.
Looks oK ... from the advert.
Key thing ... phone the seller and have a chat. If they seem sensible and they answer your questions to your satisfaction (like which specialist ... when serviced ... any faults) ... arrange to go and look at it and drive it.
Then if you don’t like it ... Don’t buy it. If you do like it after chat, seeing it and driving it, make the guy an offer or give him the full monies. Or if you are interested but need some reassurance ask him if you can have an inspection or a specialist put it on their ramps etc. Also get a vcheck done.
Is it over priced, possibly , possibly not.
Most important ... see the car ... size up the seller ... drive it.
Key thing ... phone the seller and have a chat. If they seem sensible and they answer your questions to your satisfaction (like which specialist ... when serviced ... any faults) ... arrange to go and look at it and drive it.
Then if you don’t like it ... Don’t buy it. If you do like it after chat, seeing it and driving it, make the guy an offer or give him the full monies. Or if you are interested but need some reassurance ask him if you can have an inspection or a specialist put it on their ramps etc. Also get a vcheck done.
Is it over priced, possibly , possibly not.
Most important ... see the car ... size up the seller ... drive it.
One thing on this car to consider is the number of owners ... it’s had four previous. So you’d be number 6. Not necessarily a problem, but could make it harder for you to move it on later, and does count against the low mileage premium.
Also I wouldn’t get hung up on the OPC warranty. It’ll cost you money for the pre-warranty inspection (and at 10 years with some indie history the new brakes etc, for example, may be non Porsche, so unwarrantable).
If it were me I’d go and see it. If a serious contender and everything checks out, bid him say £19,500 (because having now looked at AutoTrader myself it’s overpriced) and if he doesn’t accept politely walk away ... but leave him your details (If it’s been advertised for a while he may yet accept your offer).
Also I wouldn’t get hung up on the OPC warranty. It’ll cost you money for the pre-warranty inspection (and at 10 years with some indie history the new brakes etc, for example, may be non Porsche, so unwarrantable).
If it were me I’d go and see it. If a serious contender and everything checks out, bid him say £19,500 (because having now looked at AutoTrader myself it’s overpriced) and if he doesn’t accept politely walk away ... but leave him your details (If it’s been advertised for a while he may yet accept your offer).
Do you have a local specialist nearby?
I know one near me and he does pre purchase inspections.
Probably a good idea I'd this is your first Porsche
They can highlight any issues and for the cost of 1 - 2hrs labour could save you a load of heartache if something transpires that you hadn't noticed.
Also, it may well get a feel for the seller. If he refuses, then if be wary. If it does turn out to be a peach of a car, then paying near the asking price might not be so bad.
I know one near me and he does pre purchase inspections.
Probably a good idea I'd this is your first Porsche
They can highlight any issues and for the cost of 1 - 2hrs labour could save you a load of heartache if something transpires that you hadn't noticed.
Also, it may well get a feel for the seller. If he refuses, then if be wary. If it does turn out to be a peach of a car, then paying near the asking price might not be so bad.
Thanks all for the replies. Really interesting thoughts.
Good to know about the what the service and condensors might cost me. I'll need to make a list of the things to ask. Ditto for checking the receipts. That seems like good advice for now buying a car, and also good advice once I've got it.
I was thinking of getting a PPI so hopefully some that would come up.
Also, how did you see how long the car has been for sale for? Does it say that on AT? I ordered the cars by date and it was sort of in the middle. Not the oldest at least, I thought, but I could be wrong.
dgswk said:
My wife said the same, very supportive. On the basis I'd shut up once I had one. Not happened yet!
Andyoz said:
My wife called me a w
ker when I messaged her a photo of the Porsche I'd just bought.
These are hilarious. Shhh! Don't tell my girlfriend.ker when I messaged her a photo of the Porsche I'd just bought.NewNameNeeded said:
Just to add that a sports exhaust is one of the easier options to retrofit at a later date. So definitely focus on LSD, PASM, etc.
That's good to know.Maxym said:
I had one. Great car. Engine's a peach.
Is the engine the same one as the 991.1 C2? I think I read the 997.2 and 991.1 share the same DFI egnine.Shjc2 said:
I would also double check whether it actually has the LSD specced from factory as you can't really tell unless you look at the option codes from the side of the door and it was a rarely specced option.
I was thinking of asking the person selling if they could send me a picture of the factory options list. What is the ASP?Good to know about the what the service and condensors might cost me. I'll need to make a list of the things to ask. Ditto for checking the receipts. That seems like good advice for now buying a car, and also good advice once I've got it.
I was thinking of getting a PPI so hopefully some that would come up.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I did see that red Cayman. Six months warranty too, which is worth a bit. Looks to be another great option, and I know it's difficult to be too picky on spec, but without the chrono do you loose the sports mode? Not entirely sure what the sports mode does in the manual in the 987. Does it change the throttle response and the engine map?Also, how did you see how long the car has been for sale for? Does it say that on AT? I ordered the cars by date and it was sort of in the middle. Not the oldest at least, I thought, but I could be wrong.
churchie2856 said:
One thing on this car to consider is the number of owners ... it’s had four previous. So you’d be number 6. Not necessarily a problem, but could make it harder for you to move it on later, and does count against the low mileage premium.
Hhmm, yes. That does start to sound suspicious. How do you find that out? Can you do a Nice idea on the offer as well.Meeten-5dulx said:
Do you have a local specialist nearby?
I know one near me and he does pre purchase inspections.
Probably a good idea I'd this is your first Porsche
They can highlight any issues and for the cost of 1 - 2hrs labour could save you a load of heartache if something transpires that you hadn't noticed.
Do you mean find a specialist local to me for the pre-purchase inspection, or near to the seller? I'm in London, but the seller is in Stratford-Upon-Avon. How do they work, does someone need to drive the car to a shop? I guess so, if they're going to get it up on a rack!I know one near me and he does pre purchase inspections.
Probably a good idea I'd this is your first Porsche
They can highlight any issues and for the cost of 1 - 2hrs labour could save you a load of heartache if something transpires that you hadn't noticed.
My bad typo! SPP - or the Sound package plus. This is the optional step above the base audio but below the Bose audio. Most cars tend to have this specced as it was a fairly cheap option at the time and gave you 9 speakers rather than 4. Was one of the reasons why I thought the car you had linked was a fairly low spec for an Cayman S.
I would definitely take a look at the car that cmoose linked if you don't mind red, the sports exhaust is definitely something that makes the car just a bit more special when driving it, and being biased as I have those wheels as well they look much better than the 18's (although probably make it ride a lot worse).
Also I think sports chrono is redundant in manual cars as you don't get the additional launch control / faster shifts like you would in PDK. It just makes the throttle travel shorter (e.g. 100% throttle opening on a light touch of the foot) and slackens off the traction control a bit. I just push my right leg down a bit further, same difference...
I would definitely take a look at the car that cmoose linked if you don't mind red, the sports exhaust is definitely something that makes the car just a bit more special when driving it, and being biased as I have those wheels as well they look much better than the 18's (although probably make it ride a lot worse).
Also I think sports chrono is redundant in manual cars as you don't get the additional launch control / faster shifts like you would in PDK. It just makes the throttle travel shorter (e.g. 100% throttle opening on a light touch of the foot) and slackens off the traction control a bit. I just push my right leg down a bit further, same difference...
oldmanskateclub said:
Thanks all for the replies. Really interesting thoughts.
I put the reg into WeBuyAnyCar.churchie2856 said:
One thing on this car to consider is the number of owners ... it’s had four previous. So you’d be number 6. Not necessarily a problem, but could make it harder for you to move it on later, and does count against the low mileage premium.
Hhmm, yes. That does start to sound suspicious. How do you find that out? A PPI on this or any Porsche is a good idea -especially if you don’t know much about ‘em. Or if you are worried, just buy from a reputable Porsche specialist.
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