Has the world overreacted re Covid-19

Has the world overreacted re Covid-19

Poll: Has the world overreacted re Covid-19

Total Members Polled: 368

Yes: 60%
No: 40%
Author
Discussion

SS2.

14,466 posts

239 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
HoHoHo said:
There is no way whatsoever that over 40,000 have died in the UK from the virus.
Exactly this.

The ONS has even cast doubt on its own figures because of the manner in which Covid-19 deaths have been reported, especially those from care homes.

JagLover

42,490 posts

236 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
SS2. said:
Exactly this.

The ONS has even cast doubt on its own figures because of the manner in which Covid-19 deaths have been reported, especially those from care homes.
Yes care home deaths have often been recorded as Covid-19 without a doctor even seeing them and without any test being carried out.

Pneumonia is a frequent killer of the elderly (it carried off at least one of my grandparents) so trying to distinguish Covid-19 deaths from the usual routine deaths in a care home would be difficult.

robemcdonald

8,827 posts

197 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
HoHoHo said:
rjg48 said:
Jasandjules said:
LimSlip said:
Do you have some evidence that if the whole world just carried on as usual that millions wouldn't have died?
DO you have evidence they would?
Evidence, not a computer guess or "research" by a team that have gotten it wrong so many times before.
Does he have any evidence that as many people wouldn't have died, if the Part Time PM hadn't been running the Country?

Millions dead?

500,000 so far. 40,000 in the UK.
There is no way whatsoever that over 40,000 have died in the UK from the virus.

A family member works with the NHS and has said if you die and it even looks like you’ve got Covid a box is ticked and that’s your cause of death....with no testing after death so the figures are, frankly absolutely inaccurate.

IMO the number of deaths due entirely to the virus is tiny and probably no more than a couple of thousand at most and the real number of deaths with the help of Covid is thousands, but not 40,000.
As a matter of interest what does your family member do in the NHS?


HoHoHo

Original Poster:

14,988 posts

251 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
robemcdonald said:
As a matter of interest what does your family member do in the NHS?
PR

dmahon

2,717 posts

65 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
Im massively in the camp that it’s been an overreaction, but I don’t think we can answer the question yet, because it’s not over. It’s right at the start.

We’ve all kicked the can down the road, probably till next Winter, but it’s still out there and will probably infect hundreds of millions more people given time.

Jasandjules

69,960 posts

230 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
rjg48 said:
Does he have any evidence that as many people wouldn't have died, if the Part Time PM hadn't been running the Country?

Millions dead?

500,000 so far. 40,000 in the UK.
You misunderstand, he made the assertion thus must put forth the evidence to support it.

By the way how many people have died of hunger since the start of the year compared to Covid? What about heart disease?

gareth_r

5,750 posts

238 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
JagLover said:
SS2. said:
Exactly this.

The ONS has even cast doubt on its own figures because of the manner in which Covid-19 deaths have been reported, especially those from care homes.
Yes care home deaths have often been recorded as Covid-19 without a doctor even seeing them and without any test being carried out.

Pneumonia is a frequent killer of the elderly (it carried off at least one of my grandparents) so trying to distinguish Covid-19 deaths from the usual routine deaths in a care home would be difficult.
COVID deaths – how accurate are the statistics? >>>> https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/05/31/covid-dea...

"I suppose most people would be somewhat surprised to know that the cause of death, as written on death certificates, is often little more than an educated guess. Most people die when they are old, often over eighty. A post-mortem is very rarely carried out...

...Then, along comes COVID-19, and many of the rules – such as they were – went straight out of the window. At one point, it was even suggested that relatives could fill in death certificates if no-one else was available. Though I am not sure this ever happened...

...I do know that other doctors put down COVID on anyone who died from early March onwards. I didn’t. What can be made of the statistics created from data like these? And does it matter?..."




robemcdonald

8,827 posts

197 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
HoHoHo said:
robemcdonald said:
As a matter of interest what does your family member do in the NHS?
PR
And they tell family members the NHS is misleading the public about number of deaths?

Not exactly good PR is it?

Also not really in a position to know I wouldn’t have thought.

HoHoHo

Original Poster:

14,988 posts

251 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
robemcdonald said:
HoHoHo said:
robemcdonald said:
As a matter of interest what does your family member do in the NHS?
PR
And they tell family members the NHS is misleading the public about number of deaths?

Not exactly good PR is it?

Also not really in a position to know I wouldn’t have thought.
Oh, I had no idea you needed to work in certain areas within the NHS to discuss what’s happening on the wards, my apologies.

It’s not about being good PR, it’s about someone being in a position to talk to those who are with knowledge.

V8covin

7,343 posts

194 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
SS2. said:
Exactly this.

The ONS has even cast doubt on its own figures because of the manner in which Covid-19 deaths have been reported, especially those from care homes.
How do you account for the 65,000 excessive deaths in the last 3 months then if not covid ?

robemcdonald

8,827 posts

197 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
HoHoHo said:
robemcdonald said:
HoHoHo said:
robemcdonald said:
As a matter of interest what does your family member do in the NHS?
PR
And they tell family members the NHS is misleading the public about number of deaths?

Not exactly good PR is it?

Also not really in a position to know I wouldn’t have thought.
Oh, I had no idea you needed to work in certain areas within the NHS to discuss what’s happening on the wards, my apologies.

It’s not about being good PR, it’s about someone being in a position to talk to those who are with knowledge.
If you are going to make claims about figures being false you need to provide evidence.

I know plenty of people in the NHS and have never heard of figures being fudged for COVID-19.

bigandclever

13,810 posts

239 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
HoHoHo said:
A family member works with the NHS and has said if you die and it even looks like you’ve got Covid a box is ticked and that’s your cause of death.
Well they’re wrong. What do they do with the NHS, fill the vending machines?

So

26,360 posts

223 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
bigandclever said:
HoHoHo said:
A family member works with the NHS and has said if you die and it even looks like you’ve got Covid a box is ticked and that’s your cause of death.
Well they’re wrong. What do they do with the NHS, fill the vending machines?
I seem to recall hearing the same reported recently.

ATG

20,648 posts

273 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
Teddy Lop said:
ATG said:
Evidence to support the statement that virologists panic about viruses, please.

Isn't it just a fraction more likely that virologists have informed opinions about viruses?

As an electrician do you panic about electrocution? Do you panic about electrical fires?
yes, I do insofar as I anticipate the worst case scenarios. I advise and in some cases urge people on the benefits of going over and above the basic minimum requirements. For example, you don't want the failure-prone garden lighting on the same sensitive circuit breaker as your fridge freezer, but theres no reg to say you can't. I can tell you where extra money on good quality is worth the investment and where not to bother.

Like any person with a depth of knowledge in a specialised field and a pride in my work I don't want to deliver the absolute minimal. Many people, however, don't want to spend a penny more than they have to, so yes there are similarities between me and a virologist who wants more funding and gravitas.

I've seen and in many cases put right the work of those you might call far more optimistic than I. You're welcome to that approach...
That's not panicking. That's being informed and acting responsibility. Why assume virologists are different?

HoHoHo

Original Poster:

14,988 posts

251 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
robemcdonald said:
HoHoHo said:
robemcdonald said:
HoHoHo said:
robemcdonald said:
As a matter of interest what does your family member do in the NHS?
PR
And they tell family members the NHS is misleading the public about number of deaths?

Not exactly good PR is it?

Also not really in a position to know I wouldn’t have thought.
Oh, I had no idea you needed to work in certain areas within the NHS to discuss what’s happening on the wards, my apologies.

It’s not about being good PR, it’s about someone being in a position to talk to those who are with knowledge.
If you are going to make claims about figures being false you need to provide evidence.

I know plenty of people in the NHS and have never heard of figures being fudged for COVID-19.
I’d not heard about this report quoted earlier

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/05/31/covid-dea...

However it seems to echo what I’ve been told, perhaps he’s making it up as well?



Jasandjules

69,960 posts

230 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
bigandclever said:
Well they’re wrong. What do they do with the NHS, fill the vending machines?
To be clear, are you saying that every single Death Certificate citing Covid was ascertained by positive test results from samples taken whilst the patient was alive?

robemcdonald

8,827 posts

197 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
HoHoHo said:
robemcdonald said:
HoHoHo said:
robemcdonald said:
HoHoHo said:
robemcdonald said:
As a matter of interest what does your family member do in the NHS?
PR
And they tell family members the NHS is misleading the public about number of deaths?

Not exactly good PR is it?

Also not really in a position to know I wouldn’t have thought.
Oh, I had no idea you needed to work in certain areas within the NHS to discuss what’s happening on the wards, my apologies.

It’s not about being good PR, it’s about someone being in a position to talk to those who are with knowledge.
If you are going to make claims about figures being false you need to provide evidence.

I know plenty of people in the NHS and have never heard of figures being fudged for COVID-19.
I’d not heard about this report quoted earlier

https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2020/05/31/covid-dea...

However it seems to echo what I’ve been told, perhaps he’s making it up as well?
An interesting article, but not really substantive.

We will soon know how effective the lockdown has been though. Let’s see f there is a spike in new cases in the next few weeks.

I do think if there was any evidence of the NHS fiddling the numbers DC would be on it like a tramp on chips.

loskie

5,270 posts

121 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
maybe the world is overpopulated and needed a bit of a clear out.

nikaiyo2

4,757 posts

196 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
This is pure speculation so might be a load of old cock...

I think the Chinese and WHO told the world there was a fairly minor flu like virus kicking about and the world thought ok no big problem.
Then a few people started to die from it world wide. The governments of the world start to think have we been told the whole truth by the Chinese?
Then Iran an Italy happens, “the world” thinks WTF we have no real idea what this thing is doing we have to take extreme actions to prevent huge casualties.

mx5nut

5,404 posts

83 months

Sunday 5th July 2020
quotequote all
We have America as an example to the world about what happens when you do next to nothing.

How's that working out for them at the moment?