Bianca Williams stop accusing race motivated.

[Graveworm]

biggbn said:

Greendubber said:

R Mutt said:

Stuart70 said:

Gammon fest as always, fk this place is depressing.

Teetering on the edge of racism, nudge, nudge. Denigrating the success of the lady involved.
Bit of casual misogyny and titter on.

Glad I like cars and bikes, otherwise this place would be impossible.

Why do I keep inflicting N,P&E upon myself? Must like to check in on others opinions, I guess.

Because someone asked whether she made the Olympics?

I agree though, all wholly irrelevant to the police encounter.

I think it's fair enough, shes happy to use her platform to spout a load of rubbish about something that didnt happen in an attempt to stir the pot. It's reasonable for people who dont know who she is to ask for a bit of back ground on her.

You, in fact we all, are making a rather large assumption. Until all the facts come out, we don't know what, if anything did happen. I am extremely uncomfortable if what followed the second stop is acceptable police practice although i concede London is a damn sight more dangerous than sleepy wee Dundee.

I am curious if police suspect people have weapons in a car which has made off once. - what would be acceptable. If it was handled as a low key compliant stop, I would be saying that doesn’t sit at all with a search for weapons, in the circumstances.

[J4CKO]

biggbn said:

Greendubber said:

R Mutt said:

Stuart70 said:

Gammon fest as always, fk this place is depressing.

Teetering on the edge of racism, nudge, nudge. Denigrating the success of the lady involved.
Bit of casual misogyny and titter on.

Glad I like cars and bikes, otherwise this place would be impossible.

Why do I keep inflicting N,P&E upon myself? Must like to check in on others opinions, I guess.

Because someone asked whether she made the Olympics?

I agree though, all wholly irrelevant to the police encounter.

I think it's fair enough, shes happy to use her platform to spout a load of rubbish about something that didnt happen in an attempt to stir the pot. It's reasonable for people who dont know who she is to ask for a bit of back ground on her.

You, in fact we all, are making a rather large assumption. Until all the facts come out, we don't know what, if anything did happen. I am extremely uncomfortable if what followed the second stop is acceptable police practice although i concede London is a damn sight more dangerous than sleepy wee Dundee.

The way the filmed stop happened seemed to have more in common with them having driven off from the initial stop than the normal copper walking up with the "Do you know why I have stopped you" line.

[Greendubber]

biggbn said:

Greendubber said:

R Mutt said:

Stuart70 said:

Gammon fest as always, fk this place is depressing.

Teetering on the edge of racism, nudge, nudge. Denigrating the success of the lady involved.
Bit of casual misogyny and titter on.

Glad I like cars and bikes, otherwise this place would be impossible.

Why do I keep inflicting N,P&E upon myself? Must like to check in on others opinions, I guess.

Because someone asked whether she made the Olympics?

I agree though, all wholly irrelevant to the police encounter.

I think it's fair enough, shes happy to use her platform to spout a load of rubbish about something that didnt happen in an attempt to stir the pot. It's reasonable for people who dont know who she is to ask for a bit of back ground on her.

You, in fact we all, are making a rather large assumption. Until all the facts come out, we don't know what, if anything did happen. I am extremely uncomfortable if what followed the second stop is acceptable police practice although i concede London is a damn sight more dangerous than sleepy wee Dundee.

Statement from the Met is good enough for me, they wouldn't say it unless they could back it up with the BWV they have.

Let's hope the footage comes out and we can see what an absolute pair of dicks this pair appear to be.

[Mort7]

DoubleD said:

Mort7 said:

s1962a said:

Brads67 said:

Gammon is a racist term isn't it?.

No it's not. This was discussed at length in other threads.

And there was no consensus. I consider gammon to be a deliberately provocative and racist term. The difference is that I believe it reflects rather more badly on those using it than the receipients. Rather like any racist language.

Some say it is, some say it isnt. Thats why it was discussed at length.

But you stated above, unequivocally, that it wasn't considered to be racist. That was untrue.

Whether or not language is considered to be insulting is determined by the recipient, not the individual making the insult. If it is made clear that an individual finds a particular phrase which is aimed at them with the intention to cause insult, unacceptable, and the individual making the insult continues to use it, then that pretty much identifies that individual as a dick - doesn't it?

[DoubleD]

Mort7 said:

DoubleD said:

Mort7 said:

s1962a said:

Brads67 said:

Gammon is a racist term isn't it?.

No it's not. This was discussed at length in other threads.

And there was no consensus. I consider gammon to be a deliberately provocative and racist term. The difference is that I believe it reflects rather more badly on those using it than the receipients. Rather like any racist language.

Some say it is, some say it isnt. Thats why it was discussed at length.

But you stated above, unequivocally, that it wasn't considered to be racist. That was untrue.

Whether or not language is considered to be insulting is determined by the recipient, not the individual making the insult. If it is made clear that an individual finds a particular phrase which is aimed at them with the intention to cause insult, unacceptable, and the individual making the insult continues to use it, then that pretty much identifies that individual as a dick - doesn't it?

That was my first comment on this thread.

[biggbn]

Greendubber said:

biggbn said:

Greendubber said:

R Mutt said:

Stuart70 said:

Gammon fest as always, fk this place is depressing.

Teetering on the edge of racism, nudge, nudge. Denigrating the success of the lady involved.
Bit of casual misogyny and titter on.

Glad I like cars and bikes, otherwise this place would be impossible.

Why do I keep inflicting N,P&E upon myself? Must like to check in on others opinions, I guess.

Because someone asked whether she made the Olympics?

I agree though, all wholly irrelevant to the police encounter.

I think it's fair enough, shes happy to use her platform to spout a load of rubbish about something that didnt happen in an attempt to stir the pot. It's reasonable for people who dont know who she is to ask for a bit of back ground on her.

You, in fact we all, are making a rather large assumption. Until all the facts come out, we don't know what, if anything did happen. I am extremely uncomfortable if what followed the second stop is acceptable police practice although i concede London is a damn sight more dangerous than sleepy wee Dundee.

Statement from the Met is good enough for me, they wouldn't say it unless they could back it up with the BWV they have.

Let's hope the footage comes out and we can see what an absolute pair of dicks this pair appear to be.

I will be consistent. If the footage comes out and shows them to have been dicks, hell mend them. I think they may struggle to justify the cuffs but again am only applying my knowledge of police procedure up here.

[R Mutt]

Gammon and Karen aren't racist terms because while they apply exclusively to white people they are used to highlight traits other than skin colour such as becoming red in the face.

Promising footballer is applicable to all races however is a racist term as people would only use it to denigrate a black victim.

So basically it's whatever you want it to be whether that be to attack the subject or the user

[Greendubber]

biggbn said:

Greendubber said:

biggbn said:

Greendubber said:

R Mutt said:

Stuart70 said:

Gammon fest as always, fk this place is depressing.

Teetering on the edge of racism, nudge, nudge. Denigrating the success of the lady involved.
Bit of casual misogyny and titter on.

Glad I like cars and bikes, otherwise this place would be impossible.

Why do I keep inflicting N,P&E upon myself? Must like to check in on others opinions, I guess.

Because someone asked whether she made the Olympics?

I agree though, all wholly irrelevant to the police encounter.

I think it's fair enough, shes happy to use her platform to spout a load of rubbish about something that didnt happen in an attempt to stir the pot. It's reasonable for people who dont know who she is to ask for a bit of back ground on her.

You, in fact we all, are making a rather large assumption. Until all the facts come out, we don't know what, if anything did happen. I am extremely uncomfortable if what followed the second stop is acceptable police practice although i concede London is a damn sight more dangerous than sleepy wee Dundee.

Statement from the Met is good enough for me, they wouldn't say it unless they could back it up with the BWV they have.

Let's hope the footage comes out and we can see what an absolute pair of dicks this pair appear to be.

I will be consistent. If the footage comes out and shows them to have been dicks, hell mend them. I think they may struggle to justify the cuffs but again am only applying my knowledge of police procedure up here.

No problem at all justifying putting the cuffs on them.

[biggbn]

J4CKO said:

biggbn said:

Greendubber said:

R Mutt said:

Stuart70 said:

Gammon fest as always, fk this place is depressing.

Teetering on the edge of racism, nudge, nudge. Denigrating the success of the lady involved.
Bit of casual misogyny and titter on.

Glad I like cars and bikes, otherwise this place would be impossible.

Why do I keep inflicting N,P&E upon myself? Must like to check in on others opinions, I guess.

Because someone asked whether she made the Olympics?

I agree though, all wholly irrelevant to the police encounter.

I think it's fair enough, shes happy to use her platform to spout a load of rubbish about something that didnt happen in an attempt to stir the pot. It's reasonable for people who dont know who she is to ask for a bit of back ground on her.

You, in fact we all, are making a rather large assumption. Until all the facts come out, we don't know what, if anything did happen. I am extremely uncomfortable if what followed the second stop is acceptable police practice although i concede London is a damn sight more dangerous than sleepy wee Dundee.

The way the filmed stop happened seemed to have more in common with them having driven off from the initial stop than the normal copper walking up with the "Do you know why I have stopped you" line.

I would not have entertained getting out of the car with an aggressive looking cop a few feet from the door with a raised baton. Engine off, door locked, window cracked down an inch or so and politely enquire what the problem is. Request offocer to back up, explain kid and Mrs in back of car and happy to step out under those circumstances. Yes I'm aware that the driver did none of those things, but both parties, in my opinion, could have handled this so much better. Only. My. Opinion. Body language and stance is hugely important when dealing with conflict and confrontational verbal or body language will, most times, engender a confrontational reaction. Perhaps the cop had no option left, i dont know, perhaps the footage is sympathetically cut, we shall see. I'm only going on what i have for now, who knows what comes out in the wash.

[biggbn]

Greendubber said:

biggbn said:

Greendubber said:

biggbn said:

Greendubber said:

R Mutt said:

Stuart70 said:

Gammon fest as always, fk this place is depressing.

Teetering on the edge of racism, nudge, nudge. Denigrating the success of the lady involved.
Bit of casual misogyny and titter on.

Glad I like cars and bikes, otherwise this place would be impossible.

Why do I keep inflicting N,P&E upon myself? Must like to check in on others opinions, I guess.

Because someone asked whether she made the Olympics?

I agree though, all wholly irrelevant to the police encounter.

I think it's fair enough, shes happy to use her platform to spout a load of rubbish about something that didnt happen in an attempt to stir the pot. It's reasonable for people who dont know who she is to ask for a bit of back ground on her.

You, in fact we all, are making a rather large assumption. Until all the facts come out, we don't know what, if anything did happen. I am extremely uncomfortable if what followed the second stop is acceptable police practice although i concede London is a damn sight more dangerous than sleepy wee Dundee.

Statement from the Met is good enough for me, they wouldn't say it unless they could back it up with the BWV they have.

Let's hope the footage comes out and we can see what an absolute pair of dicks this pair appear to be.

I will be consistent. If the footage comes out and shows them to have been dicks, hell mend them. I think they may struggle to justify the cuffs but again am only applying my knowledge of police procedure up here.

No problem at all justifying putting the cuffs on them.

Can you explain that? Genuinely interested and not being confrontational.

[Greendubber]

His baton island up for about 3 seconds if that...

[DoubleD]

biggbn said:

I would not have entertained getting out of the car with an aggressive looking cop a few feet from the door with a raised baton. Engine off, door locked, window cracked down an inch or so and politely enquire what the problem is. Request offocer to back up, explain kid and Mrs in back of car and happy to step out under those circumstances. Yes I'm aware that the driver did none of those things, but both parties, in my opinion, could have handled this so much better. Only. My. Opinion. Body language and stance is hugely important when dealing with conflict and confrontational verbal or body language will, most times, engender a confrontational reaction. Perhaps the cop had no option left, i dont know, perhaps the footage is sympathetically cut, we shall see. I'm only going on what i have for now, who knows what comes out in the wash.

Going off that 1 video we dont really know very much, its best not to jump to conclusions.

[biggbn]

Greendubber said:

His baton island up for about 3 seconds if that...

The footage was not flattering, the kid looked like a deer in the headlights and looked aggressive to me. Anyhoo, I will reserve further comment until everything comes out, as I say, I may be, and will happy to be wrong. The police do a bloody difficult job well in the majority of cases, and get little thanks, hopefully this incident is a storm in a tea cup and is quickly forgotten. Take care all, gbn

[biggbn]

DoubleD said:

biggbn said:

I would not have entertained getting out of the car with an aggressive looking cop a few feet from the door with a raised baton. Engine off, door locked, window cracked down an inch or so and politely enquire what the problem is. Request offocer to back up, explain kid and Mrs in back of car and happy to step out under those circumstances. Yes I'm aware that the driver did none of those things, but both parties, in my opinion, could have handled this so much better. Only. My. Opinion. Body language and stance is hugely important when dealing with conflict and confrontational verbal or body language will, most times, engender a confrontational reaction. Perhaps the cop had no option left, i dont know, perhaps the footage is sympathetically cut, we shall see. I'm only going on what i have for now, who knows what comes out in the wash.

Going off that 1 video we dont really know very much, its best not to jump to conclusions.

Agreed, and that cuts both ways.

[Hackney]

Saw someone post on twitter that a pub had released CCTV showing the did nothing wrong, although no-one has been able to provide a link.

For one I don’t believe pub CCTV would show much of the road and of course the offence would have to happen outside the pub anyway.

Also, in the same thread, people were posting pictures of the street the two people live in (residential, parked cars either side leaving a car wide lane in the middle, straddling the centre line) and saying it was Impossible to be be/not be on the wrong side. Ignoring the whole rest of the story.

Anyway, anyone seen or heard of this alleged CCTV?

[Greendubber]

biggbn said:

Greendubber said:

His baton island up for about 3 seconds if that...

The footage was not flattering, the kid looked like a deer in the headlights and looked aggressive to me. Anyhoo, I will reserve further comment until everything comes out, as I say, I may be, and will happy to be wrong. The police do a bloody difficult job well in the majority of cases, and get little thanks, hopefully this incident is a storm in a tea cup and is quickly forgotten. Take care all, gbn

I said it earlier, policing isn't always pretty. He has no idea who's in that vehicle or what they're about to do.
It could be anything from a half asleep drink driver slouched over the wheel to someone raising a weapon. Sometimes people need to be dominated, if that's shouting and raising a baton then so be it.

I hope it all comes out in the wash as this appears to be someone kicking up a stink because their actions had a consequence.

[Greendubber]

Hackney said:

Saw someone post on twitter that a pub had released CCTV showing the did nothing wrong, although no-one has been able to provide a link.

For one I don’t believe pub CCTV would show much of the road and of course the offence would have to happen outside the pub anyway.

Also, in the same thread, people were posting pictures of the street the two people live in (residential, parked cars either side leaving a car wide lane in the middle, straddling the centre line) and saying it was Impossible to be be/not be on the wrong side. Ignoring the whole rest of the story.

Anyway, anyone seen or heard of this alleged CCTV?

Not seen or heard of that to be honest. I've seen the one way street pictures, pictures that show where the car eventually stopped. Not where it was first seen or made off from.

I'm amazed some people can see past the end of their noses!

[biggbn]

Greendubber said:

biggbn said:

Greendubber said:

His baton island up for about 3 seconds if that...

The footage was not flattering, the kid looked like a deer in the headlights and looked aggressive to me. Anyhoo, I will reserve further comment until everything comes out, as I say, I may be, and will happy to be wrong. The police do a bloody difficult job well in the majority of cases, and get little thanks, hopefully this incident is a storm in a tea cup and is quickly forgotten. Take care all, gbn

I said it earlier, policing isn't always pretty. He has no idea who's in that vehicle or what they're about to do.
It could be anything from a half asleep drink driver slouched over the wheel to someone raising a weapon. Sometimes people need to be dominated, if that's shouting and raising a baton then so be it.

I hope it all comes out in the wash as this appears to be someone kicking up a stink because their actions had a consequence.

no worries, thanks for your valuable contributions, food for thought.

[Greendubber]

biggbn said:

Greendubber said:

biggbn said:

Greendubber said:

His baton island up for about 3 seconds if that...

The footage was not flattering, the kid looked like a deer in the headlights and looked aggressive to me. Anyhoo, I will reserve further comment until everything comes out, as I say, I may be, and will happy to be wrong. The police do a bloody difficult job well in the majority of cases, and get little thanks, hopefully this incident is a storm in a tea cup and is quickly forgotten. Take care all, gbn

I said it earlier, policing isn't always pretty. He has no idea who's in that vehicle or what they're about to do.
It could be anything from a half asleep drink driver slouched over the wheel to someone raising a weapon. Sometimes people need to be dominated, if that's shouting and raising a baton then so be it.

I hope it all comes out in the wash as this appears to be someone kicking up a stink because their actions had a consequence.

no worries, thanks for your valuable contributions, food for thought.

You're very welcome

[rxe]

biggbn said:

I would not have entertained getting out of the car with an aggressive looking cop a few feet from the door with a raised baton. Engine off, door locked, window cracked down an inch or so and politely enquire what the problem is. Request offocer to back up, explain kid and Mrs in back of car and happy to step out under those circumstances. Yes I'm aware that the driver did none of those things, but both parties, in my opinion, could have handled this so much better. Only. My. Opinion. Body language and stance is hugely important when dealing with conflict and confrontational verbal or body language will, most times, engender a confrontational reaction. Perhaps the cop had no option left, i dont know, perhaps the footage is sympathetically cut, we shall see. I'm only going on what i have for now, who knows what comes out in the wash.

The guy drove off from a police stop for God’s sake. What on earth do you expect the police to do when someone has just driven off? Write them a letter? The conflict was escalated, big time, by the driver. All the police knew was they were dealing with the sort of person who runs from them. That’s not normal behaviour amongst law abiding people. The only rational reason to drive off from a stop is:

- you’re so fked on drugs or booze that you think it is a good idea
- you’ve got something more serious In the car than whatever charges will come from trying to run

In both cases, batons drawn and cuffs seem a bare minimum to me.

IMO the police should charge them with failing to stop or whatever they can throw at them. They seem to be a pair of entitled pricks who think the rules don’t apply to them.