Bianca Williams stop accusing race motivated.
Discussion
Bigends said:
Perhaps the fact she was left in cuffs for the duration of the search ( over half an hour) may have been an issue.
Appears the complaints on here were that she was cuffed at all, but many suggesting they shouldn't have been stopped because no crime had been committed. Pretty idealisticBigends said:
Perhaps the fact she was left in cuffs for the duration of the search ( over half an hour) may have been an issue.
Really ? She doesn’t look handcuffed ( or distressed ) in this picture taken whilst the search was ongoing
Edited by Earthdweller on Wednesday 8th July 13:45
Given this Is purportedly a motor site, it is odd no one seems to have pointed out it’s, at most, a 30k A Class. Over and over in the media the vehicle is misdescribed as a very expensive one, as some justification for suspicion, given a young driver. The area in question has very high house values, the car is not out of the ordinary in any way.
As for the obfuscating repetitive speculation on the matters surrounding all this, one or two aspects seem to be overlooked.
If you are a young black man in London, you can expect to be at risk during interactions with the police. This ought to be accounted for in any such situation.
Given we live in a time of global media, fears are not necessarily reflective of local risks. That should be accounted for when dealing with the public in any capacity, especially one of authority.
As for the obfuscating repetitive speculation on the matters surrounding all this, one or two aspects seem to be overlooked.
If you are a young black man in London, you can expect to be at risk during interactions with the police. This ought to be accounted for in any such situation.
Given we live in a time of global media, fears are not necessarily reflective of local risks. That should be accounted for when dealing with the public in any capacity, especially one of authority.
SnowStar said:
Given this Is purportedly a motor site, it is odd no one seems to have pointed out it’s, at most, a 30k A Class. Over and over in the media the vehicle is misdescribed as a very expensive one, as some justification for suspicion, given a young driver. The area in question has very high house values, the car is not out of the ordinary in any way.
As for the obfuscating repetitive speculation on the matters surrounding all this, one or two aspects seem to be overlooked.
If you are a young black man in London, you can expect to be at risk during interactions with the police. This ought to be accounted for in any such situation.
Given we live in a time of global media, fears are not necessarily reflective of local risks. That should be accounted for when dealing with the public in any capacity, especially one of authority.
Perhaps why she felt the need to film it?As for the obfuscating repetitive speculation on the matters surrounding all this, one or two aspects seem to be overlooked.
If you are a young black man in London, you can expect to be at risk during interactions with the police. This ought to be accounted for in any such situation.
Given we live in a time of global media, fears are not necessarily reflective of local risks. That should be accounted for when dealing with the public in any capacity, especially one of authority.
SnowStar said:
Filming interactions with the authorities, or any party given potential conflict, has been normal even long before it has become so convenient. I did it myself a number of times in the last year.
Another red herring being employed by those wishing to apportion blame.
I have no wish to aportion blame, I think you can see that from my previous posts. I personally don't think it was handled well by either party and would like to know more. Why no charges for the alleged dangerous driving, failing to stop etc.. Why cuff them? Why did they act in such an inflammatory way? Why apologise if nothing to apologise for? But, we are talking in circles. Lets see what else comes out. Another red herring being employed by those wishing to apportion blame.
zygalski said:
If I were black you'd be damn sure I'd be filming any interactions with police as far as possible, and I've never committed a crime in my life.
I wouldn't. I policed for a while and never saw racism, except for the public racially abusing BAME officers on occasions.
Of course there's the possibility the Met is dramatically different, but I don't get that impression forces vary too much from one another.
Bigends said:
over_the_hill said:
DeWar said:
Zoon said:
Slippery slope, soon the Police will be unable to stop a black driver for fear of repercussions.
67% of stop and searches are carried out on white people. But I don't see any outrage about that.
Why would there be outrage about people who constitute 90% of the population getting stopped 67% of the time?67% of stop and searches are carried out on white people. But I don't see any outrage about that.
As ever statistics can be misleading.
But what are the results of the Stop and search?
What percentage of the various demographics stopped were found to be carrying etc?
As said earlier if plod started S&S on old ladies outside the post office and never found a knife or heroin, we would all complain about the misuse of Police resources and the amount of knife and drug offences.
I have no problem with Policing led by intelligence and statistics.
La Liga said:
he's apologising for the distress.
That's a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do when it turns out a person hasn't done anything wrong.
She's not apologising for the stop and actions, is she?
Does the met boss normally apologise to everyone in similar situations? That's a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do when it turns out a person hasn't done anything wrong.
She's not apologising for the stop and actions, is she?
It seems odd to apologise in this situation. Together with the reluctance to release video, it does appear to be encouraging ‘something to hide’.
I feel we aren’t being told something.
Bigends said:
Looks like the apology mailnly refers to the upset caused to Bianca Williams rather than the stop as a whole. At the time of the stop, the issue was with the manner of driving - not the back seat passenger. Its not as if shed been seen waving a knife or machete out of the window. As soon as the back door was opened and they saw a young woman and baby in the back, perhaps things could have been explained to her more calmly, allow her to get the baby and move her off to one side whilst the driver - the cause of the issue - was dealt with. Instead of diving straight in with cuffs and restraint. Cuffs should be used if there is fear of flight or violence likely to be offered and not as a matter of routine as now often seems to be the case.
Before or after she started screaming?eldar said:
La Liga said:
he's apologising for the distress.
That's a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do when it turns out a person hasn't done anything wrong.
She's not apologising for the stop and actions, is she?
Does the met boss normally apologise to everyone in similar situations? That's a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do when it turns out a person hasn't done anything wrong.
She's not apologising for the stop and actions, is she?
It seems odd to apologise in this situation. Together with the reluctance to release video, it does appear to be encouraging ‘something to hide’.
I feel we aren’t being told something.
They wont release video that is potentially going to be used as evidence.
Jazzy Jag said:
Bigends said:
over_the_hill said:
DeWar said:
Zoon said:
Slippery slope, soon the Police will be unable to stop a black driver for fear of repercussions.
67% of stop and searches are carried out on white people. But I don't see any outrage about that.
Why would there be outrage about people who constitute 90% of the population getting stopped 67% of the time?67% of stop and searches are carried out on white people. But I don't see any outrage about that.
As ever statistics can be misleading.
But what are the results of the Stop and search?
What percentage of the various demographics stopped were found to be carrying etc?
As said earlier if plod started S&S on old ladies outside the post office and never found a knife or heroin, we would all complain about the misuse of Police resources and the amount of knife and drug offences.
I have no problem with Policing led by intelligence and statistics.
As in 2017/18, a staggering 72% of all searches carried out by Dorset's police officers in 2018/19 were for drugs instead of being directed towards more serious or violent crime. Most of these are likely to have targeted low-level possession of cannabis rather than suppliers or harder drugs.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Cambs
A high proportion of all searches (61%) conducted by Cambridgeshire's police officers were for drugs rather than serious or violence crime in 2018/19.
April 2018 – March 2019
17% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Norfolk
The majority of searches across Norfolk (68% in 2018/19) are for drugs rather than being targetted towards serious or violent crime. Research suggests that drugs searches tend to detect low level possession (mainly of cannabis) rather than harder drugs or disrupt the supply chain.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
La Liga said:
zygalski said:
If I were black you'd be damn sure I'd be filming any interactions with police as far as possible, and I've never committed a crime in my life.
I wouldn't. I policed for a while and never saw racism, except for the public racially abusing BAME officers on occasions.
Of course there's the possibility the Met is dramatically different, but I don't get that impression forces vary too much from one another.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/u...
Other opinions are available. I find it fascinating, but not improbable, that lived experiences vary so widely. I have friends up here in the police who say sexism us much worse than racism, and friends who have worked down south and mirror the no racism experience, whilst another said it was rife in the Met.
Earthdweller said:
Red 4 said:
Dick is apologising for any distress caused but not apologising for the officers' actions.
Big difference.
It matters not what she says, and we haven’t seen a transcript Big difference.
What is Important is how it is reported and not the nuance of the wording
A quick scan online brings up headlines such as
“Met chief apologises for officers racially profiling athletes” etc
That is what people will read and take from the apology not “we acted professionally sorry you got upset”
She may well have opened an even bigger can of worms
I see your point but it doesn't really matter what she says or doesn't say, things can and will always be twisted to sell a few more papers.
biggbn said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/am...
Other opinions are available. I find it fascinating, but not improbable, that lived experiences vary so widely. I have friends up here in the police who say sexism us much worse than racism, and friends who have worked down south and mirror the no racism experience, whilst another said it was rife in the Met.
From that article about a female Indian joining the PoliceOther opinions are available. I find it fascinating, but not improbable, that lived experiences vary so widely. I have friends up here in the police who say sexism us much worse than racism, and friends who have worked down south and mirror the no racism experience, whilst another said it was rife in the Met.
"The community didn't feel it was appropriate for me to be walking the streets of London"
Sorry who were the sexists and racists again ?
The mob seem to think only white men are sexist / racist - IME that is far from the case.
V8RX7 said:
biggbn said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/am...
Other opinions are available. I find it fascinating, but not improbable, that lived experiences vary so widely. I have friends up here in the police who say sexism us much worse than racism, and friends who have worked down south and mirror the no racism experience, whilst another said it was rife in the Met.
From that article about a female Indian joining the PoliceOther opinions are available. I find it fascinating, but not improbable, that lived experiences vary so widely. I have friends up here in the police who say sexism us much worse than racism, and friends who have worked down south and mirror the no racism experience, whilst another said it was rife in the Met.
"The community didn't feel it was appropriate for me to be walking the streets of London"
Sorry who were the sexists and racists again ?
The mob seem to think only white men are sexist / racist - IME that is far from the case.
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