Bianca Williams stop accusing race motivated.
Discussion
eldar said:
La Liga said:
he's apologising for the distress.
That's a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do when it turns out a person hasn't done anything wrong.
She's not apologising for the stop and actions, is she?
Does the met boss normally apologise to everyone in similar situations? That's a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do when it turns out a person hasn't done anything wrong.
She's not apologising for the stop and actions, is she?
It seems odd to apologise in this situation. Together with the reluctance to release video, it does appear to be encouraging ‘something to hide’.
I feel we aren’t being told something.
Bigends said:
For Dorsetshire
As in 2017/18, a staggering 72% of all searches carried out by Dorset's police officers in 2018/19 were for drugs instead of being directed towards more serious or violent crime. Most of these are likely to have targeted low-level possession of cannabis rather than suppliers or harder drugs.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Cambs
A high proportion of all searches (61%) conducted by Cambridgeshire's police officers were for drugs rather than serious or violence crime in 2018/19.
April 2018 – March 2019
17% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Norfolk
The majority of searches across Norfolk (68% in 2018/19) are for drugs rather than being targetted towards serious or violent crime. Research suggests that drugs searches tend to detect low level possession (mainly of cannabis) rather than harder drugs or disrupt the supply chain.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
Why is 72% 'staggering'? As in 2017/18, a staggering 72% of all searches carried out by Dorset's police officers in 2018/19 were for drugs instead of being directed towards more serious or violent crime. Most of these are likely to have targeted low-level possession of cannabis rather than suppliers or harder drugs.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Cambs
A high proportion of all searches (61%) conducted by Cambridgeshire's police officers were for drugs rather than serious or violence crime in 2018/19.
April 2018 – March 2019
17% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Norfolk
The majority of searches across Norfolk (68% in 2018/19) are for drugs rather than being targetted towards serious or violent crime. Research suggests that drugs searches tend to detect low level possession (mainly of cannabis) rather than harder drugs or disrupt the supply chain.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
Why say "rather than for serious crime or violence"?
Can't drugs be serious crime?
Sounds a nice balanced source.
Reasonable suspicion for drugs is far more common than it is for "violent crime", whatever that means. Given most violent crime is committed without weapons it's hard to search someone for their own fists.
La Liga said:
eldar said:
La Liga said:
he's apologising for the distress.
That's a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do when it turns out a person hasn't done anything wrong.
She's not apologising for the stop and actions, is she?
Does the met boss normally apologise to everyone in similar situations? That's a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do when it turns out a person hasn't done anything wrong.
She's not apologising for the stop and actions, is she?
It seems odd to apologise in this situation. Together with the reluctance to release video, it does appear to be encouraging ‘something to hide’.
I feel we aren’t being told something.
Bigends said:
For Dorsetshire
As in 2017/18, a staggering 72% of all searches carried out by Dorset's police officers in 2018/19 were for drugs instead of being directed towards more serious or violent crime. Most of these are likely to have targeted low-level possession of cannabis rather than suppliers or harder drugs.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Cambs
A high proportion of all searches (61%) conducted by Cambridgeshire's police officers were for drugs rather than serious or violence crime in 2018/19.
April 2018 – March 2019
17% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Norfolk
The majority of searches across Norfolk (68% in 2018/19) are for drugs rather than being targetted towards serious or violent crime. Research suggests that drugs searches tend to detect low level possession (mainly of cannabis) rather than harder drugs or disrupt the supply chain.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
Why is 72% 'staggering'? As in 2017/18, a staggering 72% of all searches carried out by Dorset's police officers in 2018/19 were for drugs instead of being directed towards more serious or violent crime. Most of these are likely to have targeted low-level possession of cannabis rather than suppliers or harder drugs.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Cambs
A high proportion of all searches (61%) conducted by Cambridgeshire's police officers were for drugs rather than serious or violence crime in 2018/19.
April 2018 – March 2019
17% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Norfolk
The majority of searches across Norfolk (68% in 2018/19) are for drugs rather than being targetted towards serious or violent crime. Research suggests that drugs searches tend to detect low level possession (mainly of cannabis) rather than harder drugs or disrupt the supply chain.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
Why say "rather than for serious crime or violence"?
Can't drugs be serious crime?
Sounds a nice balanced source.
Bigends said:
Cannabis searches are easy hits. Like the old target led days - get X amount of arrests / detections each month.So Search a few students - hit your arrest detection target rather than concentrating on trying to detect those Burglaries on your workload.
Yes, because its possession is so common and it's often so overtly obvious i.e. it smells very strongly and distinctively. You don't even need to try and find it, it finds you. The only way not to end up doing loads of cannabis searches is to ignore it.
The Met (who do the most searches) do target serious and violent crime, but then that leads to disproportionate searches of the BAME because they are the communities committing a disproportionate amount of violent crime. This then leads to topics like this.
Hard to win either way.
Bigends said:
Bit of cannabis is hardly serious. Cannabis searches are easy hits. Like the old target led days - get X amount of arrests / detections each month.So Search a few students - hit your arrest detection target rather than concentrating on trying to detect those Burglaries on your workload.
Likely to be driven by the fact that cannabis really stinks these days. Do you want officers to ignore the stench?Pothole said:
Bigends said:
Bit of cannabis is hardly serious. Cannabis searches are easy hits. Like the old target led days - get X amount of arrests / detections each month.So Search a few students - hit your arrest detection target rather than concentrating on trying to detect those Burglaries on your workload.
Likely to be driven by the fact that cannabis really stinks these days. Do you want officers to ignore the stench?Edited by Bigends on Wednesday 8th July 16:12
Bigends said:
Pothole said:
Bigends said:
Bit of cannabis is hardly serious. Cannabis searches are easy hits. Like the old target led days - get X amount of arrests / detections each month.So Search a few students - hit your arrest detection target rather than concentrating on trying to detect those Burglaries on your workload.
Likely to be driven by the fact that cannabis really stinks these days. Do you want officers to ignore the stench?Bigends said:
For Dorsetshire
As in 2017/18, a staggering 72% of all searches carried out by Dorset's police officers in 2018/19 were for drugs instead of being directed towards more serious or violent crime. Most of these are likely to have targeted low-level possession of cannabis rather than suppliers or harder drugs.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Cambs
A high proportion of all searches (61%) conducted by Cambridgeshire's police officers were for drugs rather than serious or violence crime in 2018/19.
April 2018 – March 2019
17% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Norfolk
The majority of searches across Norfolk (68% in 2018/19) are for drugs rather than being targetted towards serious or violent crime. Research suggests that drugs searches tend to detect low level possession (mainly of cannabis) rather than harder drugs or disrupt the supply chain.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
Possession of classified substances and weapons is illegal, as is violent crime or bank robbery.As in 2017/18, a staggering 72% of all searches carried out by Dorset's police officers in 2018/19 were for drugs instead of being directed towards more serious or violent crime. Most of these are likely to have targeted low-level possession of cannabis rather than suppliers or harder drugs.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Cambs
A high proportion of all searches (61%) conducted by Cambridgeshire's police officers were for drugs rather than serious or violence crime in 2018/19.
April 2018 – March 2019
17% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Norfolk
The majority of searches across Norfolk (68% in 2018/19) are for drugs rather than being targetted towards serious or violent crime. Research suggests that drugs searches tend to detect low level possession (mainly of cannabis) rather than harder drugs or disrupt the supply chain.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
Which crime are you more likely to be in a position to be stopped and searched while the process of, or further to committing?
R Mutt said:
Bigends said:
For Dorsetshire
As in 2017/18, a staggering 72% of all searches carried out by Dorset's police officers in 2018/19 were for drugs instead of being directed towards more serious or violent crime. Most of these are likely to have targeted low-level possession of cannabis rather than suppliers or harder drugs.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Cambs
A high proportion of all searches (61%) conducted by Cambridgeshire's police officers were for drugs rather than serious or violence crime in 2018/19.
April 2018 – March 2019
17% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Norfolk
The majority of searches across Norfolk (68% in 2018/19) are for drugs rather than being targetted towards serious or violent crime. Research suggests that drugs searches tend to detect low level possession (mainly of cannabis) rather than harder drugs or disrupt the supply chain.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
Possession of classified substances and weapons is illegal, as is violent crime or bank robbery.As in 2017/18, a staggering 72% of all searches carried out by Dorset's police officers in 2018/19 were for drugs instead of being directed towards more serious or violent crime. Most of these are likely to have targeted low-level possession of cannabis rather than suppliers or harder drugs.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Cambs
A high proportion of all searches (61%) conducted by Cambridgeshire's police officers were for drugs rather than serious or violence crime in 2018/19.
April 2018 – March 2019
17% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Norfolk
The majority of searches across Norfolk (68% in 2018/19) are for drugs rather than being targetted towards serious or violent crime. Research suggests that drugs searches tend to detect low level possession (mainly of cannabis) rather than harder drugs or disrupt the supply chain.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
Which crime are you more likely to be in a position to be stopped and searched while the process of, or further to committing?
He highlights three areas in the country that have some of the lowest levels of violent crime and bank Robbery ( is that still a thing it’s so last century ) and then complains that the Police are not stopping and searching people for offences that statistically are very rare
He mentions that the majority of searches are for drugs then proceeds to give figures for a power that is not for searches for drugs as an example of how few searches are positive
In urban areas with high Levels of violent crime the Police really do search for weapons and to disrupt gangs
In fact the Met have said that is why the TSG were in W6 patrolling because of a spike in gang violence
Perhaps Bigends could give us some figures for searches under the Misuse of Drugs Act or Fireams Act or even Terrorism legislation and we can see how effective those searches are
Serious and Organised crime groups have huge resources thrown at countering and disrupting them, thankfully they do not have to rely on S1 PACE to bring them to justice
Suppliers of hard drugs are likely to be target tied by operations and arrested as a result of warrants issued under the MDA or other legislation
Edited by Earthdweller on Wednesday 8th July 16:37
Earthdweller said:
R Mutt said:
Bigends said:
For Dorsetshire
As in 2017/18, a staggering 72% of all searches carried out by Dorset's police officers in 2018/19 were for drugs instead of being directed towards more serious or violent crime. Most of these are likely to have targeted low-level possession of cannabis rather than suppliers or harder drugs.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Cambs
A high proportion of all searches (61%) conducted by Cambridgeshire's police officers were for drugs rather than serious or violence crime in 2018/19.
April 2018 – March 2019
17% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Norfolk
The majority of searches across Norfolk (68% in 2018/19) are for drugs rather than being targetted towards serious or violent crime. Research suggests that drugs searches tend to detect low level possession (mainly of cannabis) rather than harder drugs or disrupt the supply chain.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
Possession of classified substances and weapons is illegal, as is violent crime or bank robbery.As in 2017/18, a staggering 72% of all searches carried out by Dorset's police officers in 2018/19 were for drugs instead of being directed towards more serious or violent crime. Most of these are likely to have targeted low-level possession of cannabis rather than suppliers or harder drugs.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Cambs
A high proportion of all searches (61%) conducted by Cambridgeshire's police officers were for drugs rather than serious or violence crime in 2018/19.
April 2018 – March 2019
17% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
For Norfolk
The majority of searches across Norfolk (68% in 2018/19) are for drugs rather than being targetted towards serious or violent crime. Research suggests that drugs searches tend to detect low level possession (mainly of cannabis) rather than harder drugs or disrupt the supply chain.
April 2018 – March 2019
12% of stop and searches conducted under PACE Section 1 lead to an arrest.
Which crime are you more likely to be in a position to be stopped and searched while the process of, or further to committing?
He highlights three areas in the country that have some of the lowest levels of violent crime and bank Robbery ( is that still a thing it’s so last century ) and then complains that the Police are not stopping and searching people for offences that statistically are very rare
He mentions that the majority of searches are for drugs then proceeds to give figures for a power that is not for searches for drugs as an example of how few searches are positive
In urban areas with high Levels of violent crime the Police really do search for weapons and to disrupt gangs
In fact the Met have said that is why the TSG were in W6 patrolling because of a spike in gang violence
Perhaps Bigends could give us some figures for searches under the Misuse of Drugs Act or Fireams Act or even Terrorism legislation and we can see how effective those searches are
Serious and Organised crime groups have huge resources thrown at countering and disrupting them, thankfully they do not have to rely on S1 PACE to bring them to justice
BBC said:
How often are people handcuffed?
By BBC Reality Check
In 2018-19, police officers in England and Wales used handcuffs just over 300,000 times.
Around 16% of those people cuffed were black.
This means that, when we look at people who were handcuffed relative to their population in the 2011 Census, black people were roughly six times more likely to be handcuffed than white people.
Not all people who get arrested are handcuffed and not all handcuffed people get arrested.
However, the ratio of handcuffing to arrests shows a great discrepancy between black and white people:
• In 2018-19, 452,000 white people were arrested and 210,000 were handcuffed
• Over the same period, 60,000 black people were arrested and 49,000 were handcuffed
Unfortunately the BBC's data are far too superficial. By BBC Reality Check
In 2018-19, police officers in England and Wales used handcuffs just over 300,000 times.
Around 16% of those people cuffed were black.
This means that, when we look at people who were handcuffed relative to their population in the 2011 Census, black people were roughly six times more likely to be handcuffed than white people.
Not all people who get arrested are handcuffed and not all handcuffed people get arrested.
However, the ratio of handcuffing to arrests shows a great discrepancy between black and white people:
• In 2018-19, 452,000 white people were arrested and 210,000 were handcuffed
• Over the same period, 60,000 black people were arrested and 49,000 were handcuffed
It needs to look at the offences arrested for and also consider the Met will account for a large % given it has 25% of the police in England and Wales where BAME communities are much higher than the national average.
don'tbesilly said:
Hackney said:
eldar said:
Police apologise.
Bianca Williams: Met apologises to sprinter over stop-and-search https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53307...
Seems the police accept they were wrong.
They’ve apologised for distress caused, not that anything was wrong in their reasons for the stop. Bianca Williams: Met apologises to sprinter over stop-and-search https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53307...
Seems the police accept they were wrong.
It strikes me that the apology has come from the wrong party.
Perhaps de Santos should be the one apologising to his wife for driving in the manner he did, the driving that led to the request to stop, and de Santos then doing exactly the opposite and speeding off.
Once he (de Santos) did stop he then refused to get out of the car, his wife then did similar probably due to the example set by the husband, so the bad situation caused by de Santos originally (speeding away) was then exacerbated further, which led to the action by the Police (getting the couple to comply with the request to get out of the car) which the Police are now apologising for.
To cap it all the apology from Dick (such an apt name given the circumstances) will probably lead to a compensation claim, as the apology from Dick could be seen as a tacit acceptance by the Met that the whole scenario was their (Mets) fault when if de Santos had complied from the get-go none of this would have happened and his wife would not have experienced the distress.
Slippery slope,from the Beeb article:
"I think all of us watching could empathise with somebody who is stopped in a vehicle, who has a young child in the back, who does not probably know what exactly is going on, and is subsequently found, together with her partner, not to be carrying anything illicit."
I can see 'baby on board' stickers enjoying an explosion in sales in the very near future.
Personally I don’t think the police did anything wrong.
The longer video from inside the car paints a very different picture especially when the police are asking the driver to get out the car and he’s laughing, saying “look at this” another action which may lead the police to believe the driver may not do as asked.
I don’t hear any mention of cannabis and I’ve no idea why the female went from laughing along to hysterical.
La Liga said:
nfortunately the BBC's data are far too superficial.
It needs to look at the offences arrested for and also consider the Met will account for a large % given it has 25% of the police in England and Wales where BAME communities are much higher than the national average.
Indeed, way too simplisticIt needs to look at the offences arrested for and also consider the Met will account for a large % given it has 25% of the police in England and Wales where BAME communities are much higher than the national average.
Many people are arrested at Police stations having attended by appointment or are arrested during interviews which started when they were not under arrest
Quite often these are for serious offences
The type of offences and locations of arrest are key
I’d imagine that virtually 100% of people arrested for a serious assault outside a pub ( whilst actually fighting) will be handcuffed
That same person, subsequently identified may well surrender to custody, often with their solicitor in tow, and not be handcuffed.
certain sections of society are more likely to commit certain types of crime.
Young black males and violent street crime being one such subset
Bigends said:
Pothole said:
Bigends said:
Bit of cannabis is hardly serious. Cannabis searches are easy hits. Like the old target led days - get X amount of arrests / detections each month.So Search a few students - hit your arrest detection target rather than concentrating on trying to detect those Burglaries on your workload.
Likely to be driven by the fact that cannabis really stinks these days. Do you want officers to ignore the stench?Edited by Bigends on Wednesday 8th July 16:12
La Liga said:
BBC said:
How often are people handcuffed?
By BBC Reality Check
In 2018-19, police officers in England and Wales used handcuffs just over 300,000 times.
Around 16% of those people cuffed were black.
This means that, when we look at people who were handcuffed relative to their population in the 2011 Census, black people were roughly six times more likely to be handcuffed than white people.
Not all people who get arrested are handcuffed and not all handcuffed people get arrested.
However, the ratio of handcuffing to arrests shows a great discrepancy between black and white people:
• In 2018-19, 452,000 white people were arrested and 210,000 were handcuffed
• Over the same period, 60,000 black people were arrested and 49,000 were handcuffed
Unfortunately the BBC's data are far too superficial. By BBC Reality Check
In 2018-19, police officers in England and Wales used handcuffs just over 300,000 times.
Around 16% of those people cuffed were black.
This means that, when we look at people who were handcuffed relative to their population in the 2011 Census, black people were roughly six times more likely to be handcuffed than white people.
Not all people who get arrested are handcuffed and not all handcuffed people get arrested.
However, the ratio of handcuffing to arrests shows a great discrepancy between black and white people:
• In 2018-19, 452,000 white people were arrested and 210,000 were handcuffed
• Over the same period, 60,000 black people were arrested and 49,000 were handcuffed
It needs to look at the offences arrested for and also consider the Met will account for a large % given it has 25% of the police in England and Wales where BAME communities are much higher than the national average.
Earthdweller said:
La Liga said:
nfortunately the BBC's data are far too superficial.
It needs to look at the offences arrested for and also consider the Met will account for a large % given it has 25% of the police in England and Wales where BAME communities are much higher than the national average.
Indeed, way too simplisticIt needs to look at the offences arrested for and also consider the Met will account for a large % given it has 25% of the police in England and Wales where BAME communities are much higher than the national average.
Many people are arrested at Police stations having attended by appointment or are arrested during interviews which started when they were not under arrest
Quite often these are for serious offences
The type of offences and locations of arrest are key
I’d imagine that virtually 100% of people arrested for a serious assault outside a pub ( whilst actually fighting) will be handcuffed
That same person, subsequently identified may well surrender to custody, often with their solicitor in tow, and not be handcuffed.
certain sections of society are more likely to commit certain types of crime.
Young black males and violent street crime being one such subset
Whilst the police aren't going to be perfect (and there could be subconscious bias etc at play), they are, to a degree, a passenger where their activity reflects the realities of society.
The police shoot a grossly disproportionate amount of followers of Islam (regardless of it being an extreme interpretation etc). That's because they're the demographic committing pretty much all terrorist knife attacks.
The underlying causality is much harder to address. It's much easier to look at one of the consequences (police action) and blame that.
Greendubber said:
eldar said:
La Liga said:
he's apologising for the distress.
That's a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do when it turns out a person hasn't done anything wrong.
She's not apologising for the stop and actions, is she?
Does the met boss normally apologise to everyone in similar situations? That's a perfectly normal and reasonable thing to do when it turns out a person hasn't done anything wrong.
She's not apologising for the stop and actions, is she?
It seems odd to apologise in this situation. Together with the reluctance to release video, it does appear to be encouraging ‘something to hide’.
I feel we aren’t being told something.
They wont release video that is potentially going to be used as evidence.
La Liga said:
ndeed.
Whilst the police aren't going to be perfect (and there could be subconscious bias etc at play), they are, to a degree, a passenger where their activity reflects the realities of society.
The police shoot a grossly disproportionate amount of followers of Islam (regardless of it being an extreme interpretation etc). That's because they're the demographic committing pretty much all terrorist knife attacks.
The underlying causality is much harder to address. It's much easier to look at one of the consequences (police action) and blame that.
https://retiredandangry.co.uk/stops-knife-crime-blm-what-is-going-on-in-londonWhilst the police aren't going to be perfect (and there could be subconscious bias etc at play), they are, to a degree, a passenger where their activity reflects the realities of society.
The police shoot a grossly disproportionate amount of followers of Islam (regardless of it being an extreme interpretation etc). That's because they're the demographic committing pretty much all terrorist knife attacks.
The underlying causality is much harder to address. It's much easier to look at one of the consequences (police action) and blame that.
This is an interesting read
wjb said:
Earthdweller said:
.
certain criminal sections of society are more likely to commit certain types of crime.
Young black males who happen to be criminals and violent street crime being one such subset
Fixed that for you... certain criminal sections of society are more likely to commit certain types of crime.
Young black males who happen to be criminals and violent street crime being one such subset
Earthdweller said:
La Liga said:
ndeed.
Whilst the police aren't going to be perfect (and there could be subconscious bias etc at play), they are, to a degree, a passenger where their activity reflects the realities of society.
The police shoot a grossly disproportionate amount of followers of Islam (regardless of it being an extreme interpretation etc). That's because they're the demographic committing pretty much all terrorist knife attacks.
The underlying causality is much harder to address. It's much easier to look at one of the consequences (police action) and blame that.
https://retiredandangry.co.uk/stops-knife-crime-blm-what-is-going-on-in-londonWhilst the police aren't going to be perfect (and there could be subconscious bias etc at play), they are, to a degree, a passenger where their activity reflects the realities of society.
The police shoot a grossly disproportionate amount of followers of Islam (regardless of it being an extreme interpretation etc). That's because they're the demographic committing pretty much all terrorist knife attacks.
The underlying causality is much harder to address. It's much easier to look at one of the consequences (police action) and blame that.
This is an interesting read
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff