CV19 - The Anti Vaxxers Are Back

[Vanden Saab]

s2art said:

Vanden Saab said:

DeWar said:

WinstonWolf said:

I suspect many of them are more than happy to take extra precautions given they know the situation. It would be utterly foolish of them if they didn't.

So, given that it’s unlikely COVID will go away by itself, you think that a tranche of society should continue to live (indeed, you seem to think will be happy to live) a sheltered existence - in some cases for their whole lives - in order for a minority of individuals to implicitly opt out of their social contract because they simply don’t want to be vaccinated for no logical reason?

Please name a single vaccine that is 100% efficient. On the basis that there is not a single one, why, knowing this, would those at risk not take extra precautions. You seem to be under the misconception that vaccination makes everybody who has had it immune, at best it will be under 85%. Would you go and see your granny who has had a flu jab if you had the flu or a bad cold and risk giving it to them or would you stay away because you might give it to her despite her vaccination?

And that is precisely the reason most peopleshould be vaccinated. To achieve herd immunity so that your granny doesnt get exposed to it.

Ah OK you are one of those who thinks Covid will disappear never to be seen again.

[s2art]

Vanden Saab said:

s2art said:

Vanden Saab said:

DeWar said:

WinstonWolf said:

I suspect many of them are more than happy to take extra precautions given they know the situation. It would be utterly foolish of them if they didn't.

So, given that it’s unlikely COVID will go away by itself, you think that a tranche of society should continue to live (indeed, you seem to think will be happy to live) a sheltered existence - in some cases for their whole lives - in order for a minority of individuals to implicitly opt out of their social contract because they simply don’t want to be vaccinated for no logical reason?

Please name a single vaccine that is 100% efficient. On the basis that there is not a single one, why, knowing this, would those at risk not take extra precautions. You seem to be under the misconception that vaccination makes everybody who has had it immune, at best it will be under 85%. Would you go and see your granny who has had a flu jab if you had the flu or a bad cold and risk giving it to them or would you stay away because you might give it to her despite her vaccination?

And that is precisely the reason most peopleshould be vaccinated. To achieve herd immunity so that your granny doesnt get exposed to it.

Ah OK you are one of those who thinks Covid will disappear never to be seen again.

Seriously? Are you another 'special'?

[Oakey]

Vanden Saab said:

Ah OK you are one of those who thinks Covid will disappear never to be seen again.

I'm with you, forget these naysayers. It's only July and I've already had smallpox twice this year

[Vanden Saab]

Castrol for a knave said:

WinstonWolf said:

Should the whole of society live a sheltered existence to protect a minority?

I've not signed a social contract, are you going to trust me to look after your welfare or will you look after it for yourself?

Isn't that a bit like passing some bloke stood holding a flat mobile, in the pouring rain, on a remote country road, in the dark, next to his broken down TVR and saying "should have got a Toyota"?

If everybody stopped every time they saw a broken down TVR we would never get anywhere...

[Vanden Saab]

Oakey said:

Vanden Saab said:

Ah OK you are one of those who thinks Covid will disappear never to be seen again.

I'm with you, forget these naysayers. It's only July and I've already had smallpox twice this year

Yes it only took 150 years to eliminate smallpox...

[DeWar]

Vanden Saab said:

s2art said:

Vanden Saab said:

DeWar said:

WinstonWolf said:

I suspect many of them are more than happy to take extra precautions given they know the situation. It would be utterly foolish of them if they didn't.

So, given that it’s unlikely COVID will go away by itself, you think that a tranche of society should continue to live (indeed, you seem to think will be happy to live) a sheltered existence - in some cases for their whole lives - in order for a minority of individuals to implicitly opt out of their social contract because they simply don’t want to be vaccinated for no logical reason?

Please name a single vaccine that is 100% efficient. On the basis that there is not a single one, why, knowing this, would those at risk not take extra precautions. You seem to be under the misconception that vaccination makes everybody who has had it immune, at best it will be under 85%. Would you go and see your granny who has had a flu jab if you had the flu or a bad cold and risk giving it to them or would you stay away because you might give it to her despite her vaccination?

And that is precisely the reason most peopleshould be vaccinated. To achieve herd immunity so that your granny doesnt get exposed to it.

Ah OK you are one of those who thinks Covid will disappear never to be seen again.

A vaccine doesn’t have to be 100% effective on an individual level to benefit the at risk population. MMR isn’t 100% effective but until recently measles had been eradicated in the U.K. despite the fact that a significant minority can’t, or won’t have it. The reason is because if the vaccine is effective in enough people, the virus cannot propagate in the community. It’s worth bearing in mind that measles is hugely more infective than COVID (R0 of 12-18 vs 2-3 for novel coronavirus).

[WinstonWolf]

eharding said:

s2art said:

amgmcqueen said:

You're a brainwashed fool!

I won't be having it either.

So after tens of thousands of people from all over the world have been vaccinated and many medical bodies from all over the world (including a 30,000 strong trial in USA) have found it safe and effective. You wouldnt take it?

You have to respect the fact that amgmcqueen, Winston and the rest of the awkward squad should have a choice as regards a Covid-19 vaccine injection.

The choice in question being "Which buttock do you want it in?"

You are placing your faith in completely unknown people to protect you, to me that is pretty stupid... I wouldn't trust any stranger to look after me, hence advocating personal responsibility.

The problem is by the time this mythical vaccine has been tested and is generally available the virus will have mutated and it'll only be effective against last years strain.

Look after yourself according to your own risk factors, trusting someone else to do it seems pretty dumb to me.

[Derek Smith]

DeWar said:

A vaccine doesn’t have to be 100% effective on an individual level to benefit the at risk population. MMR isn’t 100% effective but until recently measles had been eradicated in the U.K. despite the fact that a significant minority can’t, or won’t have it. The reason is because if the vaccine is effective in enough people, the virus cannot propagate in the community. It’s worth bearing in mind that measles is hugely more infective than COVID (R0 of 12-18 vs 2-3 for novel coronavirus).

You can see how the MMR farce came about.

When parents refused to have their kids vaccinated, my first response what that I couldn't believe it. The evidence was clear. It was obvious. Not doing so put your kids, and those of other people, at risk. Vaccination is the success story of the last nigh on 250 years. We should erect statues to Jenner et al on the recently vacated plinths. He and the others saved incalculable lives. And yet we still have those who don't seem to quite cracked it.

All it took was a few people who didn't quite understand, and the internet, to bring back childhood diseases that used to be no risk.

[Oakey]

Vanden Saab said:

Oakey said:

Vanden Saab said:

Ah OK you are one of those who thinks Covid will disappear never to be seen again.

I'm with you, forget these naysayers. It's only July and I've already had smallpox twice this year

Yes it only took 150 years to eliminate smallpox...

Oh, well, since you put it like that we should totally have not bothered. It's not like it had been around for 3000 years prior to that

[DeWar]

WinstonWolf said:

I wouldn't trust any stranger to look after me

You must know an extraordinary number of doctors and nurses.

[Oakey]

DeWar said:

You must know an extraordinary number of doctors and nurses.

Nah, he's WinstonWolf, he takes care of his own medical needs.

Broken leg? Pfft, no problem, bit of 2x4 and some duct tape, job's a good un.

Cancer? He's st bigger threats.

[durbster]

DeWar said:

WinstonWolf said:

I wouldn't trust any stranger to look after me

You must know an extraordinary number of doctors and nurses.

Not to mention police, security guards, St John's ambulance people, the secret services, the Government, bouncers, HSE, Food Standards Agency, the Highways Agency, people who paint lines on roads, people who put signs up in dangerous areas, pothole fillers, breakdown services...

[eharding]

WinstonWolf said:

You are placing your faith in completely unknown people to protect you, to me that is pretty stupid... I wouldn't trust any stranger to look after me, hence advocating personal responsibility.

What a load of tosh. Do you make it a point to meet the pilots and make a judgement on their competence when you get on an airliner, have a natter with the driver of every train or bus you board, and expect that when you are wheeled into casualty having crashed your zimmer frame that every nurse and doctor treating you has previously been vetted by you and found to meet your personal standards?

You don't seem able to grasp that "personal responsibility" also involves your responsibility to the rest of society.

Anyway, I've rescinded my assertion above about your choice in the matter - you're getting it in both buttocks....

[WinstonWolf]

Oakey said:

DeWar said:

You must know an extraordinary number of doctors and nurses.

Nah, he's WinstonWolf, he takes care of his own medical needs.

Broken leg? Pfft, no problem, bit of 2x4 and some duct tape, job's a good un.

Cancer? He's st bigger threats.

I think I'm up to about fifteen surgeries now, I really can't get worked up about the statistically small risk of this particular virus.

[WinstonWolf]

eharding said:

WinstonWolf said:

You are placing your faith in completely unknown people to protect you, to me that is pretty stupid... I wouldn't trust any stranger to look after me, hence advocating personal responsibility.

What a load of tosh. Do you make it a point to meet the pilots and make a judgement on their competence when you get on an airliner, have a natter with the driver of every train or bus you board, and expect that when you are wheeled into casualty having crashed your zimmer frame that every nurse and doctor treating you has previously been vetted by you and found to meet your personal standards?

You don't seem able to grasp that "personal responsibility" also involves your responsibility to the rest of society.

Anyway, I've rescinded my assertion above about your choice in the matter - you're getting it in both buttocks....

Guess what, I don't have a responsibility towards society. Now are you going to look after yourself, or will you foolishly still expect someone else to do it for you?

[Oakey]

WinstonWolf said:

I think I'm up to about fifteen surgeries now, I really can't get worked up about the statistically small risk of this particular virus.

Operate on yourself did you?

[WinstonWolf]

Oakey said:

WinstonWolf said:

I think I'm up to about fifteen surgeries now, I really can't get worked up about the statistically small risk of this particular virus.

Operate on yourself did you?

I trusted my surgeon as that's what he does. I wouldn't trust you to do the same thing.

If you put your trust in me you're an idiot. Look after yourself, take some responsibility, I'm not your mum.

[eldar]

Oakey said:

Operate on yourself did you?

Without anaesthetic, of course.

https://youtu.be/UijhbHvxWrA

[dukeboy749r]

I think I've stumbled into the final deliberations for this year's Darwin Award nominations...

[Oakey]

WinstonWolf said:

I trusted my surgeon as that's what he does. I wouldn't trust you to do the same thing.

If you put your trust in me you're an idiot. Look after yourself, take some responsibility, I'm not your mum.

So when you said

"You are placing your faith in completely unknown people to protect you, to me that is pretty stupid... I wouldn't trust any stranger to look after me"

You were in fact, talking bks?