CV19 - The Anti Vaxxers Are Back

[motorizer]

I am a bit bemused by some, who shrug off the remote chance of getting a bad case of a virus that has killed half a million people, and has unknown long term effects, but then get all panicky at the prospect of a professionally made vaccine because of the remote chance of unknown long term effects...

Do we need a "CV-19, Cure scarier than the disease?" thread?

[WinstonWolf]

Oakey said:

WinstonWolf said:

I trusted my surgeon as that's what he does. I wouldn't trust you to do the same thing.

If you put your trust in me you're an idiot. Look after yourself, take some responsibility, I'm not your mum.

So when you said

"You are placing your faith in completely unknown people to protect you, to me that is pretty stupid... I wouldn't trust any stranger to look after me"

You were in fact, talking bks?

He's not a stranger, he's an expert in his particular field.

If you trust the great British public to look after you then more fool you.

[DeWar]

I said:

A talent for tolerating cognitive dissonance

[Taylor James]

Funny username said:

DeWar said:

A) The vaccine will have been tested.

How will you know the effect on women who get pregnant post vacinne and the effect on their unborn child? You can’t rush that test.....

I’m not an anti vaxxer. My daughter and I are up to date on everything. If there was an Ebola outbreak I’d be first one queuing for my shot.

Have a look at the people the vaccine will be tested on. Healthy people. No pregnant people. That's what I call testing. There's plenty of data in the US. No placebo groups and immunity from prosecution for big pharma.

All these people that the rest of us are supposed to protect by having the vaccine ourselves are clearly vulnerable and at risk of imminent death anyway. They must be, if they can't take the vaccine, that's supposed to protect against a disease that we know causes minuscule levels of death in healthy people.

And on the science, are there any other vaccines used that mess about with your RNA?

I don't believe there'll be an effective covid-virus any more than we have an effective flu jab.

The virus will mutate and we'll always be playing catch up, just like we've never been able to cure something nothing like as lethal, like the common cold.

[DanL]

It’s fairly clear that the vaccine won’t be available to everyone at the same time.

I presume that those who get the flu vaccine and other vulnerable members of society will be given it first, followed by everyone else, which might give those concerned about it enough time to reassure themselves that it isn’t a problem.

Would it be made compulsory? I would have said no until this thread, as I’d have assumed that enough people would get it that it wouldn’t need to be mandated... I’m not sure how I feel about mandatory vaccinations (against in principle, I think), but I can imagine there might be restrictions on international travel, etc. if you’ve not had the vaccine.

Would I have it? If it’s explained well enough how they created it and how it’s safe (as with the new car analogy above), then probably yes. I would hope my parents would have it, as they’re in a much higher risk category than I am!

[stitched]

So heading back to the MMR vaccine, we had a situation where there were well tested vaccines against each of these illnesses.
Taking on board that I had managed to survive all 3 with malaria thrown in for good measure, the fact that the UK prime minister refused to say whether his kids had received the new vaccine and the possible long term effects of a new vaccine weighed against the tried and tested separate vaccinations I paid for my son to have the separate vaccinations privately.
If this makes me a credulous loon then fine, I took a lesser risk with my sons future.
Incidentally there are a lot more autistic kids around these days.

[Gadgetmac]

WinstonWolf said:

Oakey said:

WinstonWolf said:

I trusted my surgeon as that's what he does. I wouldn't trust you to do the same thing.

If you put your trust in me you're an idiot. Look after yourself, take some responsibility, I'm not your mum.

So when you said

"You are placing your faith in completely unknown people to protect you, to me that is pretty stupid... I wouldn't trust any stranger to look after me"

You were in fact, talking bks?

He's not a stranger, he's an expert in his particular field.

If you trust the great British public to look after you then more fool you.

As are the Clinicians conducting trials in Vaccinations and Drugs in the Pharma Industry - they're not just taken from the nearest queue at a bus stop.

So what's your point?

[anonymous-user]

I won't be fighting to the front of the queue for the vaccine

The more vulnerable should be allowed first refusal, and the less susceptible demographics should wait.

I'd like to have an antibody / resistance test of some sort first too. No point wasting a shot on someone that already has immunity.

[DeWar]

DanL said:

It’s fairly clear that the vaccine won’t be available to everyone at the same time.

I presume that those who get the flu vaccine and other vulnerable members of society will be given it first, followed by everyone else, which might give those concerned about it enough time to reassure themselves that it isn’t a problem.

Would it be made compulsory?I would have said no until this thread, as I’d have assumed that enough people would get it that it wouldn’t need to be mandated... I’m not sure how I feel about mandatory vaccinations (against in principle, I think), but I can imagine there might be restrictions on international travel, etc. if you’ve not had the vaccine.

Would I have it? If it’s explained well enough how they created it and how it’s safe (as with the new car analogy above), then probably yes. I would hope my parents would have it, as they’re in a much higher risk category than I am!

Interesting question. MMR has not been made compulsory despite the fact that only nutters think it’s unsafe and despite the fact it is unquestionably effective and saves lives. It would also be very easy to make life difficult for parents who don’t allow kids their kids to be vaccinated.

Given the scepticism that appears to be rife re: COVID I suspect any attempt by the government to make the vaccine compulsory would incite insurrection.

Despite my personal views on vaccines, I am absolutely against the notion of forcing injections onto unwilling citizens. That’s a dangerous road to go down. It would also destroy many people’s trust in the medical profession which could have numerous negative and unintended consequences down the line.

I would therefore say there is almost zero chance of a compulsory vaccine. The government could conceivably try to incentivise uptake, somehow. But no more than that.

[Taylor James]

JPJPJP said:

I won't be fighting to the front of the queue for the vaccine

The more vulnerable should be allowed first refusal, and the less susceptible demographics should wait.

I'd like to have an antibody / resistance test of some sort first too. No point wasting a shot on someone that already has immunity.

They won't give it to the most vulnerable first, if at all! They daren't test it on those people.

It will be given to the least vulnerable first.

[WinstonWolf]

Gadgetmac said:

WinstonWolf said:

Oakey said:

WinstonWolf said:

I trusted my surgeon as that's what he does. I wouldn't trust you to do the same thing.

If you put your trust in me you're an idiot. Look after yourself, take some responsibility, I'm not your mum.

So when you said

"You are placing your faith in completely unknown people to protect you, to me that is pretty stupid... I wouldn't trust any stranger to look after me"

You were in fact, talking bks?

He's not a stranger, he's an expert in his particular field.

If you trust the great British public to look after you then more fool you.

As are the Clinicians conducting trials in Vaccinations and Drugs in the Pharma Industry - they're not just taken from the nearest queue at a bus stop.

So what's your point?

Are you abdicating personal responsibility and putting your faith in the great British public?

Wise move, very sensible of you...

[eldar]

DeWar said:

Snip...

I would therefore say there is almost zero chance of a compulsory vaccine. The government could conceivably try to incentivise uptake, somehow. But no more than that.

The incentive of your, your friends and random strangers children not catching a highly infective and serious disease ought to be enough for anyone with a trace of humanity.

It appears not, though.

[mcdjl]

WinstonWolf said:

Gadgetmac said:

WinstonWolf said:

Oakey said:

WinstonWolf said:

I trusted my surgeon as that's what he does. I wouldn't trust you to do the same thing.

If you put your trust in me you're an idiot. Look after yourself, take some responsibility, I'm not your mum.

So when you said

"You are placing your faith in completely unknown people to protect you, to me that is pretty stupid... I wouldn't trust any stranger to look after me"

You were in fact, talking bks?

He's not a stranger, he's an expert in his particular field.

If you trust the great British public to look after you then more fool you.

As are the Clinicians conducting trials in Vaccinations and Drugs in the Pharma Industry - they're not just taken from the nearest queue at a bus stop.

So what's your point?

Are you abdicating personal responsibility and putting your faith in the great British public?

Wise move, very sensible of you...

Given youre a member of the great British public, quite.





And yes i got your sarcasm.

[Taylor James]

eldar said:

DeWar said:

Snip...

I would therefore say there is almost zero chance of a compulsory vaccine. The government could conceivably try to incentivise uptake, somehow. But no more than that.

The incentive of your, your friends and random strangers children not catching a highly infective and serious disease ought to be enough for anyone with a trace of humanity.

It appears not, though.

Have you noticed that the disease isn't remotely dangerous to healthy children?

[WinstonWolf]

mcdjl said:

WinstonWolf said:

Gadgetmac said:

WinstonWolf said:

Oakey said:

WinstonWolf said:

I trusted my surgeon as that's what he does. I wouldn't trust you to do the same thing.

If you put your trust in me you're an idiot. Look after yourself, take some responsibility, I'm not your mum.

So when you said

"You are placing your faith in completely unknown people to protect you, to me that is pretty stupid... I wouldn't trust any stranger to look after me"

You were in fact, talking bks?

He's not a stranger, he's an expert in his particular field.

If you trust the great British public to look after you then more fool you.

As are the Clinicians conducting trials in Vaccinations and Drugs in the Pharma Industry - they're not just taken from the nearest queue at a bus stop.

So what's your point?

Are you abdicating personal responsibility and putting your faith in the great British public?

Wise move, very sensible of you...

Given youre a member of the great British public, quite.





And yes i got your sarcasm.

That's exactly my point.

[Hoofy]

mx5nut said:

grumbledoak said:

What's the survival rate of COVID-19? 99.9996%?

I'll not be rushing for a shiny new vaccine with those odds.

Permanent lung damage will still put you in the survivors camp.

Yes. I wish people would publish data on this. I don't mind death. It's the permanent scarring that means you cannot live the life you want to live (unless it mostly involves sitting on your couch doing fk all) and maybe going upstairs once a day because that's too tiring.

My gardener can only work for about 2 hours a day now; any longer and he's off for a week recovering from fatigue. He was mega active before CV19.

[mx5nut]

WinstonWolf said:

mx5nut said:

WinstonWolf said:

Shouldn't they be taking personal responsibility for their own welfare?

Modern Britain distilled in to a sentence.

Do you not believe in taking responsibility for your own welfare then?

Mine and others. Like a grown up in a civilised society should.

[WinstonWolf]

mx5nut said:

WinstonWolf said:

mx5nut said:

WinstonWolf said:

Shouldn't they be taking personal responsibility for their own welfare?

Modern Britain distilled in to a sentence.

Do you not believe in taking responsibility for your own welfare then?

Mine and others. Like a grown up in a civilised society should.

So you trust the British public to behave with consideration for your welfare at all times?

Good luck with that. I hate to break this to you, you'll either be disappointed or infected.

I'm also guessing you don't look when you cross the road as the driver is responsible for your welfare? Me, I look both ways...

[mcdjl]

WinstonWolf said:

So you trust the British public to behave with consideration for your welfare at all times?

Good luck with that. I hate to break this to you, you'll either be disappointed or infected.

I'm also guessing you don't look when you cross the road as the driver is responsible for your welfare? Me, I look both ways...

I have slightly more faith in the british public than you, yet i still look both ways even a zebra crossings. Thats because despite the law saying that i as a pedestrian have right of way there are still selfish morons around.
As i said earlier, if people refuse the vaccine for covid, they should also sign a form saying they don't want treatment for it. After all the chances are so small....

[WinstonWolf]

mcdjl said:

WinstonWolf said:

So you trust the British public to behave with consideration for your welfare at all times?

Good luck with that. I hate to break this to you, you'll either be disappointed or infected.

I'm also guessing you don't look when you cross the road as the driver is responsible for your welfare? Me, I look both ways...

I have slightly more faith in the british public than you, yet i still look both ways even a zebra crossings. Thats because despite the law saying that i as a pedestrian have right of way there are still selfish morons around.
As i said earlier, if people refuse the vaccine for covid, they should also sign a form saying they don't want treatment for it. After all the chances are so small....

I'm guessing you think the same thing about mountain climbers? Just leave them in a crumpled heap at the bottom the selfish bds.