CV19 - The Anti Vaxxers Are Back
Discussion
otolith said:
If you are convinced by that (and accept it without researching why science believes otherwise and has, on that basis, massively improved outcomes for people with HIV), I strongly recommend that you don't open the door to anyone selling religion, financial products or magnets for your fuel lines.
Interested to hear more about magnets on fuel lines.
Gadgetmac said:
Kermit power said:
otolith said:
Woody John said:
Hoofy said:
The dude in the video is a doctor who claimed AIDS was a hoax. You can now do something more productive with your life, such as fishing in your toilet bowl.
/quote]
Did he though? /quote]
Woody John said:
And if he did was he wrong?
Yes. And still is.http://www.vernoncoleman.com/aids.htm
I found it surprisingly credible! Certainly not up there with the usual conspiracy guff. He's not arguing that people haven't died, or that they've been eliminated by lizards or any of that sort of crap. I'd certainly want to research more before writing it off out of hand.
He's arguing that Aids doesn't actually exist.
It's called aids denialism.
Prior to the current insane actions being taken to combat Covid, I would've been far more accepting of the establishment scientific view, but over the last 3 months, I've become massively sceptical when it comes to asking whether the establishment has the faintest bloody clue about anything!!!
I'm certainly sceptical enough to think that if 39% of the UK population answered that they'd definitely take a Covid vaccination even though it doesn't yet exist so we know nothing about it or the risks involved, then that 39% of people should not be trusted with making decisions for themselves!
Kermit power said:
I'm certainly sceptical enough to think that if 39% of the UK population answered that they'd definitely take a Covid vaccination even though it doesn't yet exist so we know nothing about it or the risks involved, then that 39% of people should not be trusted with making decisions for themselves!
Dont be daft. They answered that they would take it knowing damn well that it would be fully tested, works and had been trialed on tens of thousands of people throughout the world. You know, the only intelligent response.Kermit power said:
Have you actually read the page you've linked to?
I found it surprisingly credible! Certainly not up there with the usual conspiracy guff. He's not arguing that people haven't died, or that they've been eliminated by lizards or any of that sort of crap. I'd certainly want to research more before writing it off out of hand.
I feel like this kind of material is designed mainly to overwhelm the reader with info so they feel like they have enough knowledge and won't bother doing more research into it. They'll throw some technical words into the mix to impress, too.I found it surprisingly credible! Certainly not up there with the usual conspiracy guff. He's not arguing that people haven't died, or that they've been eliminated by lizards or any of that sort of crap. I'd certainly want to research more before writing it off out of hand.
It is like when someone keeps talking and throwing more and more info out there hoping that some of it sticks. Ever spoken to someone who is so committed to believing in Brexit? They will just throw Daily Mail headlines at you and won't let you pick the first one apart so you end up just nodding and smiling. The danger to these kinds of people is when you unpack each statement and their whole web of lies falls apart.
"Isn't your post like that?" No, because I'm still talking about my first statement about overloading the reader with s
te.Kermit power said:
The usual "AIDS is a hoax" type loony claim would be suggesting that people hadn't died, and it was some sort of mind control conspiracy that "they" have in place. He's not arguing that though, is he? He's arguing that it's perfectly possible that what we think of as "AIDS" is potentially a grouping of other illnesses which shouldn't really be grouped at all.
Which, if true, would make it very strange that treating people with HIV with antiretroviral drugs which specifically target HIV changes their prognosis from a death sentence to a long term condition.Basically, he's still banging the drum for a position which was not only wrong, but was in direct opposition to the position which led to the creation of effective treatments.
https://www.vox.com/2015/12/1/9814026/world-aids-d...
Kermit power said:
Have you actually read the page you've linked to?
I found it surprisingly credible! Certainly not up there with the usual conspiracy guff. He's not arguing that people haven't died, or that they've been eliminated by lizards or any of that sort of crap. I'd certainly want to research more before writing it off out of hand.
I found it surprisingly credible! Certainly not up there with the usual conspiracy guff. He's not arguing that people haven't died, or that they've been eliminated by lizards or any of that sort of crap. I'd certainly want to research more before writing it off out of hand.
The Article said:
the AIDS industry has yet to make just one of the many promised breakthroughs or save any human lives.
Demonstrably false.The Article said:
The AIDS syndrome is still commonest among gay men, drug users and haemophiliacs – many of whom are probably exposed to drug use of one sort or another
The Article said:
I believe that gay pressure groups (working to make sure that AIDS did not become established as a 'gay' disease') were responsible for the initial development of the 'plague' myth. And that AIDS was then turned into a major scare through the efforts of insurance companies (eager to find an excuse to put up premiums), drug companies (keen to sell new products), doctors (keen to help drug companies), researchers (eager to get their hands on the vast amounts of money being raised by volunteers), religious groups (desperate to exploit an opportunity to suppress sexual activity outside marriage) and politicians (eager, as always, to leap on an opportunity to frighten the voters – since when voters are frightened it is much easier to introduce new, repressive legislation).
Having read the page I would certainly say that it is right up there with the usual conspiracy guff with a little homophobia thrown in for good measure. Kermit power said:
Prior to the current insane actions being taken to combat Covid, I would've been far more accepting of the establishment scientific view, but over the last 3 months, I've become massively sceptical when it comes to asking whether the establishment has the faintest bloody clue about anything!!!
I'm certainly sceptical enough to think that if 39% of the UK population answered that they'd definitely take a Covid vaccination even though it doesn't yet exist so we know nothing about it or the risks involved, then that 39% of people should not be trusted with making decisions for themselves!
Scientists in lack of knowledge about brand new disease SHOCKER! In all honesty I have been amazed at how quickly research is coming out, within that there have inevitably been a few things that have been misinterpreted or corrected (normally by study authors) but on the whole its been very impressive. I'm certainly sceptical enough to think that if 39% of the UK population answered that they'd definitely take a Covid vaccination even though it doesn't yet exist so we know nothing about it or the risks involved, then that 39% of people should not be trusted with making decisions for themselves!
Kermit power said:
The usual "AIDS is a hoax" type loony claim would be suggesting that people hadn't died, and it was some sort of mind control conspiracy that "they" have in place. He's not arguing that though, is he? He's arguing that it's perfectly possible that what we think of as "AIDS" is potentially a grouping of other illnesses which shouldn't really be grouped at all.
Prior to the current insane actions being taken to combat Covid, I would've been far more accepting of the establishment scientific view, but over the last 3 months, I've become massively sceptical when it comes to asking whether the establishment has the faintest bloody clue about anything!!!
I'm certainly sceptical enough to think that if 39% of the UK population answered that they'd definitely take a Covid vaccination even though it doesn't yet exist so we know nothing about it or the risks involved, then that 39% of people should not be trusted with making decisions for themselves!
What he’s written looks like complete gibberish if you have even a basic understanding of medicine. Prior to the current insane actions being taken to combat Covid, I would've been far more accepting of the establishment scientific view, but over the last 3 months, I've become massively sceptical when it comes to asking whether the establishment has the faintest bloody clue about anything!!!
I'm certainly sceptical enough to think that if 39% of the UK population answered that they'd definitely take a Covid vaccination even though it doesn't yet exist so we know nothing about it or the risks involved, then that 39% of people should not be trusted with making decisions for themselves!
He says that AIDS can be caused by things other than HIV. Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome - every medic knows that immunodeficiency can be acquired in a variety of ways not linked to HIV - through drugs, certain cancers, malnutrition and countless more. This isn’t news to anyone.
The flaws in his arguments are so legion that it’d require most of the rest of the day to point them out. However, two salient points:
1) HIV used to be considered a death sentence. People with HIV would ALL invariably develop immunodeficiency (AIDS) and die within years. Now, newly diagnosed HIV patients have near normal life expectancies and at the same time AIDS is basically never encountered - I haven’t seen anybody with it since I was at med school in the early 00’s - apart from, funnily enough in HIV+ve people who don’t take their HIV meds! 2+2 in this case does equal 4.
2) It is entirely illogical to accept the word of a single ex-GP (i.e. no actual expertise in immunology or virology) that AIDS is not linked to HIV and yet dismiss pretty much every single virologist and immunologist - with a combined tens of thousands of years experience in the field - on the entire planet. What does this crazy old fool know that all of them don’t?
Edited by DeWar on Wednesday 8th July 15:21
Hoofy said:
Kermit power said:
Have you actually read the page you've linked to?
I found it surprisingly credible! Certainly not up there with the usual conspiracy guff. He's not arguing that people haven't died, or that they've been eliminated by lizards or any of that sort of crap. I'd certainly want to research more before writing it off out of hand.
I feel like this kind of material is designed mainly to overwhelm the reader with info so they feel like they have enough knowledge and won't bother doing more research into it. They'll throw some technical words into the mix to impress, too.I found it surprisingly credible! Certainly not up there with the usual conspiracy guff. He's not arguing that people haven't died, or that they've been eliminated by lizards or any of that sort of crap. I'd certainly want to research more before writing it off out of hand.
It is like when someone keeps talking and throwing more and more info out there hoping that some of it sticks. Ever spoken to someone who is so committed to believing in Brexit? They will just throw Daily Mail headlines at you and won't let you pick the first one apart so you end up just nodding and smiling. The danger to these kinds of people is when you unpack each statement and their whole web of lies falls apart.
"Isn't your post like that?" No, because I'm still talking about my first statement about overloading the reader with s
te.s2art said:
Kermit power said:
I'm certainly sceptical enough to think that if 39% of the UK population answered that they'd definitely take a Covid vaccination even though it doesn't yet exist so we know nothing about it or the risks involved, then that 39% of people should not be trusted with making decisions for themselves!
Dont be daft. They answered that they would take it knowing damn well that it would be fully tested, works and had been trialed on tens of thousands of people throughout the world. You know, the only intelligent response.If....
1. A vaccine is every actually made available.
2. It really can be shown to have been as rigorously tested as any other previous vaccine, not rushed into distribution because of global governments' massive overreaction to Covid.
3. We actually still need a vaccine for Covid19 when it becomes available, given that as far as I'm aware, there's no vaccine for SARS or MERS, yet neither seem to pose any particular threat anymore.
4. Above all, the risk of any complications is empirically shown to be lower than the risk from Covid19.
...then I'd very probably take it, but anyone saying now that they'd definitely take it without confirming the above first is an utter fool.
Kermit power said:
s2art said:
Kermit power said:
I'm certainly sceptical enough to think that if 39% of the UK population answered that they'd definitely take a Covid vaccination even though it doesn't yet exist so we know nothing about it or the risks involved, then that 39% of people should not be trusted with making decisions for themselves!
Dont be daft. They answered that they would take it knowing damn well that it would be fully tested, works and had been trialed on tens of thousands of people throughout the world. You know, the only intelligent response.If....
1. A vaccine is every actually made available.
2. It really can be shown to have been as rigorously tested as any other previous vaccine, not rushed into distribution because of global governments' massive overreaction to Covid.
3. We actually still need a vaccine for Covid19 when it becomes available, given that as far as I'm aware, there's no vaccine for SARS or MERS, yet neither seem to pose any particular threat anymore.
4. Above all, the risk of any complications is empirically shown to be lower than the risk from Covid19.
...then I'd very probably take it, but anyone saying now that they'd definitely take it without confirming the above first is an utter fool.
BevR said:
Kermit power said:
Prior to the current insane actions being taken to combat Covid, I would've been far more accepting of the establishment scientific view, but over the last 3 months, I've become massively sceptical when it comes to asking whether the establishment has the faintest bloody clue about anything!!!
I'm certainly sceptical enough to think that if 39% of the UK population answered that they'd definitely take a Covid vaccination even though it doesn't yet exist so we know nothing about it or the risks involved, then that 39% of people should not be trusted with making decisions for themselves!
Scientists in lack of knowledge about brand new disease SHOCKER! In all honesty I have been amazed at how quickly research is coming out, within that there have inevitably been a few things that have been misinterpreted or corrected (normally by study authors) but on the whole its been very impressive. I'm certainly sceptical enough to think that if 39% of the UK population answered that they'd definitely take a Covid vaccination even though it doesn't yet exist so we know nothing about it or the risks involved, then that 39% of people should not be trusted with making decisions for themselves!
BevR said:
Scientists in lack of knowledge about brand new disease SHOCKER! In all honesty I have been amazed at how quickly research is coming out, within that there have inevitably been a few things that have been misinterpreted or corrected (normally by study authors) but on the whole its been very impressive.
And yet there are many on here that will happily take a vaccine for a virus we know so little about and insult those who say may be we should do a little more research first. Vanden Saab said:
BevR said:
Scientists in lack of knowledge about brand new disease SHOCKER! In all honesty I have been amazed at how quickly research is coming out, within that there have inevitably been a few things that have been misinterpreted or corrected (normally by study authors) but on the whole its been very impressive.
And yet there are many on here that will happily take a vaccine for a virus we know so little about and insult those who say may be we should do a little more research first. s2art said:
A little more research? What the hell do you think is happening now? Billions are being spent on multiple vaccines in multiple countries (2 I know of in the UK). Fortunes are being spent on huge trials of these vaccines, tens of thousands of volunteers are helping said research. And you want a 'little more research'.
Depends, are we talking Research, or "Research"?
Kermit power said:
Have you actually read the page you've linked to?
I found it surprisingly credible! Certainly not up there with the usual conspiracy guff. He's not arguing that people haven't died, or that they've been eliminated by lizards or any of that sort of crap. I'd certainly want to research more before writing it off out of hand.
It is up there with the usual conspiracy theory guff.I found it surprisingly credible! Certainly not up there with the usual conspiracy guff. He's not arguing that people haven't died, or that they've been eliminated by lizards or any of that sort of crap. I'd certainly want to research more before writing it off out of hand.
The question here is how to we bring back people who fall for this kind of stuff back into a place where you can even start to have a conversation? Most conspiracy theories rely on the idea that 'They' are lying to you, so it is very difficult.
Edited by gregs656 on Wednesday 8th July 17:05
Perfect.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff