CV19 - The Anti Vaxxers Are Back
Discussion
Hoofy said:
Typically media misrepresentation with buzz words. We have Far right for anyone right of Corbyn. Now we have Anti Vax for anyone that even asks a question about them or about the restrictions and coercion used to force people to take it. markyb_lcy said:
With regard social distancing I more meant “keeping two metres” rather than not seeing people at all.
I agree there is a general pressure for increased transmissibility which is omnipresent, but I tend to also think whilst distancing may reduce spread, it puts an extra pressure on more transmissible variants to become more prevalent - in that it amplifies that omnipresent general selection pressure.
I’ll have to try and dig out the articles that have led me down this path.
Could it be a case that the Kent variant has taken over because the whole "more transmissible" thing means it remains infective over longer distances that the initial strain? So there's not necessarily more virus, it can travel further than before - effectively escaping the NPIs as we are concerned it will with the vaccine?I agree there is a general pressure for increased transmissibility which is omnipresent, but I tend to also think whilst distancing may reduce spread, it puts an extra pressure on more transmissible variants to become more prevalent - in that it amplifies that omnipresent general selection pressure.
I’ll have to try and dig out the articles that have led me down this path.
gizlaroc said:
Cheers for that.
I was meaning more that I am not against vaccines in general, MMR, travel vaccines, Polio etc.
But I do think we need to slow down a bit with the roll out of the Covid vaccines. I'm sure it will be fine, but no one really knows yet, and to make out we do is disingenuous at best.
A very good friend of mine is very much against vaccines, and medicines, he would take them if life and death, but he is one of these 'the body needs purity' types.
As much as we take the piss out of him, the fact is, he and his wife who have not taken any medicine since they we 16, not a paracetamol or aspirin, only eat farm meat, their own grown fruit and veg etc. are now mid 50s and neither have ever been ill.
When I say never been ill that is not quite true, they had the odd sniffle, but always shook it off within 24 hours or so.
Around a decade ago he put in some super sophisticated water filtration system.
He did it because of the crap in our water system, pour a pint of tap water and leave it to sit for a couple of weeks, pour out the water and look at the putrid gunk that is left sat in the glass, the smell of it is beyond foul. That is what we are putting into us every day.
Since putting his filtration system into place none of his family have had any illness at all. The only time he gets a headache now is from dehydration.
A guy my father knows in India, he was the same, he used to work at the shoe factory, he lived out in the sticks, would only drink the spring water and eat the food that grew around where he lived, and refused to put "the white mans poisons" (what he called medicines) never had a day off ill in his life. He was still cutting patterns in that factory when he was 100 years old. My old man always wondered how long he carried on working there for.
I think we will look back in years to come and laugh at how advanced we thought we were in 2020. But for now, many of us are happy to eat processed foods, fill our faces with 'medicines' and take more 'medicines' to get us through it, myself included, but I think we are only now at the start of really understanding what our bodies really need.
Some interesting anecdotes there. Perhaps telling us things we already know but are still quite ambivalent about. What we put into our bodies is important, and not just vaccines!I was meaning more that I am not against vaccines in general, MMR, travel vaccines, Polio etc.
But I do think we need to slow down a bit with the roll out of the Covid vaccines. I'm sure it will be fine, but no one really knows yet, and to make out we do is disingenuous at best.
A very good friend of mine is very much against vaccines, and medicines, he would take them if life and death, but he is one of these 'the body needs purity' types.
As much as we take the piss out of him, the fact is, he and his wife who have not taken any medicine since they we 16, not a paracetamol or aspirin, only eat farm meat, their own grown fruit and veg etc. are now mid 50s and neither have ever been ill.
When I say never been ill that is not quite true, they had the odd sniffle, but always shook it off within 24 hours or so.
Around a decade ago he put in some super sophisticated water filtration system.
He did it because of the crap in our water system, pour a pint of tap water and leave it to sit for a couple of weeks, pour out the water and look at the putrid gunk that is left sat in the glass, the smell of it is beyond foul. That is what we are putting into us every day.
Since putting his filtration system into place none of his family have had any illness at all. The only time he gets a headache now is from dehydration.
A guy my father knows in India, he was the same, he used to work at the shoe factory, he lived out in the sticks, would only drink the spring water and eat the food that grew around where he lived, and refused to put "the white mans poisons" (what he called medicines) never had a day off ill in his life. He was still cutting patterns in that factory when he was 100 years old. My old man always wondered how long he carried on working there for.
I think we will look back in years to come and laugh at how advanced we thought we were in 2020. But for now, many of us are happy to eat processed foods, fill our faces with 'medicines' and take more 'medicines' to get us through it, myself included, but I think we are only now at the start of really understanding what our bodies really need.
Edited by gizlaroc on Sunday 18th April 14:17
Thanks for sharing.
bodhi said:
Could it be a case that the Kent variant has taken over because the whole "more transmissible" thing means it remains infective over longer distances that the initial strain? So there's not necessarily more virus, it can travel further than before - effectively escaping the NPIs as we are concerned it will with the vaccine?
Perhaps, but I would take some convincing that a more transmissible strain is more transmissible because it can travel further. I think the more transmissible strains have better ace2 receptor binding.So at this point I’m glad I said I’m thinking out aloud because this would contradict myself. My line of thinking is that NPIs would have a greater reduction effect in variants that are less transmissible, providing somewhat of a vacuum in prevalence for the more transmissible variants.
I think I need a beer now
I see Pfzier have started vaccination trials at Stanford on 2 to 5 year olds now.
She was so pleased her 3 year old wanted to take part in the trials......
https://twitter.com/conspiracyguy78/status/1383519...
She was so pleased her 3 year old wanted to take part in the trials......
https://twitter.com/conspiracyguy78/status/1383519...
gizlaroc said:
I see Pfzier have started vaccination trials at Stanford on 2 to 5 year olds now.
She was so pleased her 3 year old wanted to take part in the trials......
https://twitter.com/conspiracyguy78/status/1383519...
One two year old in the trial has allegedly died after being given a vaccine. I make no assertions myself whatsoever as to whether the vaccine is at fault or not, but it doesn’t look great.She was so pleased her 3 year old wanted to take part in the trials......
https://twitter.com/conspiracyguy78/status/1383519...
https://twitter.com/vegsource/status/1383654826693...
I checked VAERS and verified the report is legit, as in it exists. Afaik, falsified submissions can in theory be made
Edited by markyb_lcy on Sunday 18th April 15:45
Edited by markyb_lcy on Sunday 18th April 15:45
markyb_lcy said:
gizlaroc said:
Cheers for that.
I was meaning more that I am not against vaccines in general, MMR, travel vaccines, Polio etc.
But I do think we need to slow down a bit with the roll out of the Covid vaccines. I'm sure it will be fine, but no one really knows yet, and to make out we do is disingenuous at best.
A very good friend of mine is very much against vaccines, and medicines, he would take them if life and death, but he is one of these 'the body needs purity' types.
As much as we take the piss out of him, the fact is, he and his wife who have not taken any medicine since they we 16, not a paracetamol or aspirin, only eat farm meat, their own grown fruit and veg etc. are now mid 50s and neither have ever been ill.
When I say never been ill that is not quite true, they had the odd sniffle, but always shook it off within 24 hours or so.
Around a decade ago he put in some super sophisticated water filtration system.
He did it because of the crap in our water system, pour a pint of tap water and leave it to sit for a couple of weeks, pour out the water and look at the putrid gunk that is left sat in the glass, the smell of it is beyond foul. That is what we are putting into us every day.
Since putting his filtration system into place none of his family have had any illness at all. The only time he gets a headache now is from dehydration.
A guy my father knows in India, he was the same, he used to work at the shoe factory, he lived out in the sticks, would only drink the spring water and eat the food that grew around where he lived, and refused to put "the white mans poisons" (what he called medicines) never had a day off ill in his life. He was still cutting patterns in that factory when he was 100 years old. My old man always wondered how long he carried on working there for.
I think we will look back in years to come and laugh at how advanced we thought we were in 2020. But for now, many of us are happy to eat processed foods, fill our faces with 'medicines' and take more 'medicines' to get us through it, myself included, but I think we are only now at the start of really understanding what our bodies really need.
Some interesting anecdotes there. Perhaps telling us things we already know but are still quite ambivalent about. What we put into our bodies is important, and not just vaccines!I was meaning more that I am not against vaccines in general, MMR, travel vaccines, Polio etc.
But I do think we need to slow down a bit with the roll out of the Covid vaccines. I'm sure it will be fine, but no one really knows yet, and to make out we do is disingenuous at best.
A very good friend of mine is very much against vaccines, and medicines, he would take them if life and death, but he is one of these 'the body needs purity' types.
As much as we take the piss out of him, the fact is, he and his wife who have not taken any medicine since they we 16, not a paracetamol or aspirin, only eat farm meat, their own grown fruit and veg etc. are now mid 50s and neither have ever been ill.
When I say never been ill that is not quite true, they had the odd sniffle, but always shook it off within 24 hours or so.
Around a decade ago he put in some super sophisticated water filtration system.
He did it because of the crap in our water system, pour a pint of tap water and leave it to sit for a couple of weeks, pour out the water and look at the putrid gunk that is left sat in the glass, the smell of it is beyond foul. That is what we are putting into us every day.
Since putting his filtration system into place none of his family have had any illness at all. The only time he gets a headache now is from dehydration.
A guy my father knows in India, he was the same, he used to work at the shoe factory, he lived out in the sticks, would only drink the spring water and eat the food that grew around where he lived, and refused to put "the white mans poisons" (what he called medicines) never had a day off ill in his life. He was still cutting patterns in that factory when he was 100 years old. My old man always wondered how long he carried on working there for.
I think we will look back in years to come and laugh at how advanced we thought we were in 2020. But for now, many of us are happy to eat processed foods, fill our faces with 'medicines' and take more 'medicines' to get us through it, myself included, but I think we are only now at the start of really understanding what our bodies really need.
Edited by gizlaroc on Sunday 18th April 14:17
Thanks for sharing.
98elise said:
I take none of those precautions yet I also don't get ill other than the odd sniffle. I've had possibly 2 or 3 days off sick in my entire life.
Diet and exercise are probably more important than avoiding trace elements of toxins. Diet would come under “what you put in your body”.markyb_lcy said:
Diet and exercise are probably more important than avoiding trace elements of toxins. Diet would come under “what you put in your body”.
You have to remember that exercise will stimulate production of killer cells, by the body. The higher the concentration of killer cells present, in the blood, the less likely any pathogens are to sneak through. The jury is still out regarding how novel pathogens fair, but it’s generally accepted that it helps with bugs that have been around for a while.markyb_lcy said:
Thinking out aloud (and because I’ve seen this suggested elsewhere) ... is lockdown, and social distancing more generally, creating selection pressure for “more transmissible variants”?
Viruses are nature’s perfect survivors. They don’t think, they just do. There will be several mutations of any given pathogen, present at any one time. The ones that survive and thrive, are the one’s who’s environment has been tailored to suit them best, the other ones don’t survive. So if the hosts are not coming into contact with each other as much, the variants that don’t need the hosts to do so, are the ones that become dominant.markyb_lcy said:
Perhaps, but I would take some convincing that a more transmissible strain is more transmissible because it can travel further. I think the more transmissible strains have better ace2 receptor binding.
So at this point I’m glad I said I’m thinking out aloud because this would contradict myself. My line of thinking is that NPIs would have a greater reduction effect in variants that are less transmissible, providing somewhat of a vacuum in prevalence for the more transmissible variants.
I think I need a beer now
I think I see what your arguing that distancing / restrictions place pressure on variants to evolve that require a lower exposure time to transmit from person to person? So the increased ace2 receptor binding means a lower virus dose is required to achieve the same degree of infection?So at this point I’m glad I said I’m thinking out aloud because this would contradict myself. My line of thinking is that NPIs would have a greater reduction effect in variants that are less transmissible, providing somewhat of a vacuum in prevalence for the more transmissible variants.
I think I need a beer now
Maximus_Meridius101 said:
markyb_lcy said:
Thinking out aloud (and because I’ve seen this suggested elsewhere) ... is lockdown, and social distancing more generally, creating selection pressure for “more transmissible variants”?
Viruses are nature’s perfect survivors. They don’t think, they just do. There will be several mutations of any given pathogen, present at any one time. The ones that survive and thrive, are the one’s who’s environment has been tailored to suit them best, the other ones don’t survive. So if the hosts are not coming into contact with each other as much, the variants that don’t need the hosts to do so, are the ones that become dominant.gizlaroc said:
I see Pfzier have started vaccination trials at Stanford on 2 to 5 year olds now.
She was so pleased her 3 year old wanted to take part in the trials......
https://twitter.com/conspiracyguy78/status/1383519...
How are children able to consent? She was so pleased her 3 year old wanted to take part in the trials......
https://twitter.com/conspiracyguy78/status/1383519...
gizlaroc said:
Around a decade ago he put in some super sophisticated water filtration system.
He did it because of the crap in our water system, pour a pint of tap water and leave it to sit for a couple of weeks, pour out the water and look at the putrid gunk that is left sat in the glass, the smell of it is beyond foul. That is what we are putting into us every day.
Ok thats bullsHe did it because of the crap in our water system, pour a pint of tap water and leave it to sit for a couple of weeks, pour out the water and look at the putrid gunk that is left sat in the glass, the smell of it is beyond foul. That is what we are putting into us every day.
t.Harrison Bergeron said:
Ok thats bullst.
No it's not. t.We know that we have to add stuff to water to stop it being harmful, but even chlorine can have risk of being Carcinogenic. Then we have fluoride, limescale and lead.
We add these stuff due to the miles of pipeline, if we didn't we could get bacteria, but this stuff is hardly good for us, so filtering it again before drinking it makes loads of sense.
gizlaroc said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Ok thats bullst.
No it's not. t.We know that we have to add stuff to water to stop it being harmful, but even chlorine can have risk of being Carcinogenic. Then we have fluoride, limescale and lead.
We add these stuff due to the miles of pipeline, if we didn't we could get bacteria, but this stuff is hardly good for us, so filtering it again before drinking it makes loads of sense.
Was surprised to find there was arsenic in my water!
markyb_lcy said:
One two year old in the trial has allegedly died after being given a vaccine. I make no assertions myself whatsoever as to whether the vaccine is at fault or not, but it doesn’t look great.
According to the product information leaflet, the most common reported cause of death shortly after vaccination in teenagers against HPV (the virus which causes cervical cancer) is........car accidents. (Followed by suicide and gunshots.)
A properly functioning surveillance system would expect any serious adverse event such as a death following vaccination to be reported for investigation regardless of whether it appeared to have any connection, as VAERS makes quite clear:
Disclaimer
VAERS accepts reports of adverse events and reactions that occur following vaccination. Healthcare providers, vaccine manufacturers, and the public can submit reports to the system. While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. In large part, reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases. This creates specific limitations on how the data can be used scientifically. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind.
The strengths of VAERS are that it is national in scope and can quickly provide an early warning of a safety problem with a vaccine. As part of CDC and FDA’s multi-system approach to post-licensure vaccine safety monitoring, VAERS is designed to rapidly detect unusual or unexpected patterns of adverse events, also known as “safety signals.” If a safety signal is found in VAERS, further studies can be done in safety systems such as the CDC’s Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) or the Clinical Immunization Safety Assessment (CISA) project. These systems do not have the same scientific limitations as VAERS, and can better assess health risks and possible connections between adverse events and a vaccine.
Key considerations and limitations of VAERS data:
Vaccine providers are encouraged to report any clinically significant health problem following vaccination to VAERS, whether or not they believe the vaccine was the cause.
Reports may include incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental and unverified information.
The number of reports alone cannot be interpreted or used to reach conclusions about the existence, severity, frequency, or rates of problems associated with vaccines.
VAERS data is limited to vaccine adverse event reports received between 1990 and the most recent date for which data are available.
VAERS data do not represent all known safety information for a vaccine and should be interpreted in the context of other scientific information.
Chromegrill said:
markyb_lcy said:
One two year old in the trial has allegedly died after being given a vaccine. I make no assertions myself whatsoever as to whether the vaccine is at fault or not, but it doesn’t look great.
According to the product information leaflet, the most common reported cause of death shortly after vaccination in teenagers against HPV (the virus which causes cervical cancer) is........car accidents. (Followed by suicide and gunshots.)
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