Train crash in Scotland

[anonymous-user]

young_bairn said:

Nothing more to add other than the confusion why a train would depart aberdeen around 6:30 when drain covers were popping out the street at around that time..

Because HIND is the operative word in HINDSIGHT...


Trains leave stations many thousands of times every single year when it's raining hard. If we stoppped all trains because it was raining, our railway network would be an even bigger shower of sh*t than it is now...........

[gooner1]

P5BNij said:

Route plan of the area where the derailment occurred here....

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/315489/resp...

Scroll down to page 22 which will show where the train crossed over at Carmont to return north towards Stonehaven and Aberdeen. 'DM' is the northbound Down Main, 'UM' is the southbound Up Main.

That’s interesting , the train itself must have been in view from Stonehaven SB when crossing from the UM to the DM.
Assuming the box is manned.

[sim72]

gooner1 said:

That’s interesting , the train itself must have been in view from Stonehaven SB when crossing from the UM to the DM.
Assuming the box is manned.

It crossed from up to down at Carmont SB. That's over 5 miles from Stonehaven SB.

[Vickers_VC10]

Max_Torque said:

young_bairn said:

Nothing more to add other than the confusion why a train would depart aberdeen around 6:30 when drain covers were popping out the street at around that time..

Because HIND is the operative word in HINDSIGHT...


Trains leave stations many thousands of times every single year when it's raining hard. If we stoppped all trains because it was raining, our railway network would be an even bigger shower of sh*t than it is now...........

Also the railway rulebook covers driving in flood water but it does not and cannot cover unprecedented events.

RIP the three fatalities.

[gooner1]

sim72 said:

It crossed from up to down at Carmont SB. That's over 5 miles from Stonehaven SB.

Apologies I meant Carmont SB very close to points 11a DM and 11b UM

[IrateNinja]

I'm slightly curious how the decision and approval is given for the train to come back up the line, and at what speed. Once the driver takes it up to 75mph they've got no chance, but maybe it's a balance of 'time at risk'?

How are things like landslips on to lines identified? Presumably areas at risk are checked via periodic surveys and monitored remotely, via CCTV or something? I guess in tandem with weather warnings from the met office.

I'm totally ignorant of the rail world, but interested.

[Pantechnicon]

Does it not seem ominous that work was being done in that area, I’ve looked at many photographs and have not seen evidence of landslides maybe it struck something.

[sim72]

Pantechnicon said:

Does it not seem ominous that work was being done in that area, I’ve looked at many photographs and have not seen evidence of landslides maybe it struck something.

It does seem a little odd that the front of the train appears to have been deflected left off the tracks, yet the rear power car (and indeed the rear of the last coach) appears to be still on the tracks past the point where the original derailment must have occurred.

[saaby93]

sim72 said:

whatever was on the track that took the lead loco off it must have been gone for the subsequent coaches?
Are we sure it's not just a lead loco issue?

[Dan_1981]

Is it possible for trains to 'aquaplane' or a similar effect?

[Digga]

Dan_1981 said:

Is it possible for trains to 'aquaplane' or a similar effect?

Doubtful. In heavy rain, it's more likely the water could wash sufficient debris to derail a train. It's possible it could have pushed enough rock and stone to knock the front engine off, but that in so doing the rock was crushed, deflected out of the way of the following carriages.

Awful accident though. I'm sure we'll find out the how and why in due course.

[shed driver]

Do the HST sets have forward facing CCTV? And is that likely to have survived the impact and subsequent fire?

SD.

[P5BNij]

Digga said:

Dan_1981 said:

Is it possible for trains to 'aquaplane' or a similar effect?

Doubtful. In heavy rain, it's more likely the water could wash sufficient debris to derail a train. It's possible it could have pushed enough rock and stone to knock the front engine off, but that in so doing the rock was crushed, deflected out of the way of the following carriages.

Awful accident though. I'm sure we'll find out the how and why in due course.

Aquaplane no, but the wheels can pick up and skid on a wet rail. This is more likely in fine drizzle or if there are leaves on the line but that's a subject for another day. In deep water, or moving flood water above the rail the wheels won't lose grip as such but the driver will make an emergency stop as you can't always tell if the ballast has been swept away.

As far as I'm aware HST s do not have forward facing (or any) CCTV.

[Getragdogleg]

Pure speculation but I suspect the ballast has washed away from under the rails and the weight on the train has pushed the rails down into the space the trackbed used to be, the wheels have fallen off the now buckled rails.

Land slips can slip away from the track as well as over it !

[Digga]

In steep terrain, if there's been any forestry or earthworks done, it is very, very difficult to 100% guarantee integrity of the land. A perfect example of this would be the forest above the A591 by Thirlmere. The forest was thinned, about a year prior to Storm Desmond and the tracks, up and down the hill, formed by the clearance and the access for the forest forwarding machines created the channels which allowed the rain to create landslides which blocked and undermined the road in several places.

[P5BNij]

Just a few years ago there was a very bad landslip at the northern portal of Harbury Tunnel just south of Leamington Spa, it took months to put it right and there was a 20mph speed restriction on both lines until it was all sorted. I worked the first train through once the line had been cleared of debris and the restriction put in place, I remember looking up at the cutting side as I passed through and seeing a big hole where huge trees once stood.

[alangla]

P5BNij said:

As far as I'm aware HST s do not have forward facing (or any) CCTV.

These ones do have comprehensive CCTV. You can see the forward facing camera in this picture: https://twitter.com/ScotRail/status/12922001583279... - just under the wiper blade
Also, they run with both power cars running, hence various discussions on places like Rail UK about their horrendous fuel consumption.

[saaby93]

alangla said:

P5BNij said:

As far as I'm aware HST s do not have forward facing (or any) CCTV.

These ones do have comprehensive CCTV. You can see the forward facing camera in this picture: https://twitter.com/ScotRail/status/12922001583279... - just under the wiper blade
Also, they run with both power cars running, hence various discussions on places like Rail UK about their horrendous fuel consumption.

cant see the camera but the position of those steps could give the driver a surprise

[Otispunkmeyer]

saaby93 said:

cant see the camera but the position of those steps could give the driver a surprise

Probably in the square box just under the top of the wiper blade. To stop reflections it'll be enclosed.

[Trevatanus]

I have a relative who is working at the scene, he says he has no idea how they are going to move the trains, and he has working on the railways for 30 years.