Train crash in Scotland

[gooner1]

P5BNij said:

He was stopped on the southbound line because it was was obstructed due to flooding, then with the signaller's permission he changed ends and proceeded north along the same line to the crossover at Carmont, once clear of the crossover onto the northbound line he would be accelerating back up to line speed when he came to the obstruction which caused the derailment. Hope that makes sense. I've been in a similar situation several times over the years and unless instructed to proceed at caution throughout the entire move to a particular location, you go back up to line speed, or the normal speed for your train, whichever is appropriate. Hope that makes sense.

It does to me, being an ex Picop ,ES etc.

[Teddy Lop]

downthepub said:

My house is near the helipad at the main hospital in Aberdeen and there was a flurry of choppers at about 1pm. That's a long time trapped upside down in a carriage, assuming the helis were flying in from the site of the crash.

could have been that it took hours to get clearance to proceed back up the line...

[oobster]

Overhead shots of the scene on BBC News channel now.

Those piled-up carriages are directly behind the power-unit before the bridge, another (fire damaged I think) carriage is down the embankment. Didn't see the other power-unit.

[P5BNij]

Just saw that - from the helicopter's view point the partially obscured vehicle under the trees looked like the power car, minus its GRP cab.

Also just heard that the guard is one of the three fatalities.

[sim72]

oobster said:

Overhead shots of the scene on BBC News channel now.

Those piled-up carriages are directly behind the power-unit before the bridge, another (fire damaged I think) carriage is down the embankment. Didn't see the other power-unit.

The locomotive by the bridge is the trailing one - the leading one went down the embankment as well.

[sim72]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

43140, apparently. Very badly damaged at both ends, the trailing end of course being the guard's compartment :-(

Don't open this if you don't want to

https://thumbsnap.com/sc/CSVZ1x3t.png

[mcdjl]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/c...

Is that the leading power car by the trees o the right of the picture, above the second coach? The trailing power car and last 3rd/4th coaches have rolled over the 2nd coach? So coming off the bridge?

[P5BNij]

I'd say it is the power car, yes.

[Paul-M]

Awful incident and thoughts with all involved

The timings don’t make much sense to me. Train left Aberdeen at 06:38. Stonehaven is 15 mins or so away. This happened just south of Stonehaven, maybe 7-7:30 or so. Apparently emergency services weren’t alerted until 09:30. Surely to goodness someone noticed that a train was missing or uncontactable before then?!

[sim72]

Paul-M said:

Awful incident and thoughts with all involved

The timings don’t make much sense to me. Train left Aberdeen at 06:38. Stonehaven is 15 mins or so away. This happened just south of Stonehaven, maybe 7-7:30 or so. Apparently emergency services weren’t alerted until 09:30. Surely to goodness someone noticed that a train was missing or uncontactable before then?!

Train left Stonehaven at 6.53. Was stopped due to landslide ahead on line. After lengthy delay, ran back up line to next crossover, where it retuirned to the northbound line and started to return to Aberdeen. Accident occurred very shortly afterwards.

[Paul-M]

sim72 said:

Paul-M said:

Awful incident and thoughts with all involved

The timings don’t make much sense to me. Train left Aberdeen at 06:38. Stonehaven is 15 mins or so away. This happened just south of Stonehaven, maybe 7-7:30 or so. Apparently emergency services weren’t alerted until 09:30. Surely to goodness someone noticed that a train was missing or uncontactable before then?!

Train left Stonehaven at 6.53. Was stopped due to landslide ahead on line. After lengthy delay, ran back up line to next crossover, where it retuirned to the northbound line and started to return to Aberdeen. Accident occurred very shortly afterwards.

Thank you. Makes sense if there was a lengthy delay before proceeding backwards.

[P5BNij]

There may have been a long delay before the train was allowed to reverse back north from the initial obstruction and crossover to the correct line at Carmont Signalbox, the derailment location is only about a mile north of the 'box.

[matchmaker]

mcdjl said:

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/c...

Is that the leading power car by the trees o the right of the picture, above the second coach? The trailing power car and last 3rd/4th coaches have rolled over the 2nd coach? So coming off the bridge?

No - by the windows I'd say that is a coach. I don't think the front power car is in that view. There appears to be a coach underneath the wreckage. Poor buggers

[oobster]

Doesn't look like there is any land to shift onto the line, however could the ground under the line have moved/slid or the foundations of the bridge have moved due to the torrential rain?

[sim72]

matchmaker said:

mcdjl said:

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/624/c...

Is that the leading power car by the trees o the right of the picture, above the second coach? The trailing power car and last 3rd/4th coaches have rolled over the 2nd coach? So coming off the bridge?

No - by the windows I'd say that is a coach. I don't think the front power car is in that view. There appears to be a coach underneath the wreckage. Poor buggers

Yes, that's what remains of the leading power car.

[valiant]

Big-Bo-Beep said:

BrundanBianchi said:

Pretty unlucky really. Stops for a land slip, goes back, and hits a land slip caused by passing by originally. What are the chances?

jesus P Christ on a bike. after 6 hours we still don't have a reasonable explanation for what happened.

was he travelling full speed on the south line and hit the landslide, or did he come to grief travelling full speed returning north on the north line after turning at a crossover [ where ? ] , or came to grief at another landslip returning north on the south line after avoiding hitting the original landslip ?

The site is still a rescue scene. Once they’ve been given the all clear, the investigation will start. RAIB inspectors have already been dispatched and preliminary findings will be released once a reasonably accurate timeline of events has been established. There’s already a ton of speculation and it takes time to establish the facts.

The fact that the two most important people who could advance this investigation are dead should hopefully quell your appetite for immediate answers.

Your statement is knobish and disrespectful.

[sim72]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[IrateNinja]

oobster said:

Doesn't look like there is any land to shift onto the line, however could the ground under the line have moved/slid or the foundations of the bridge have moved due to the torrential rain?

Guess we'll find out in the wash, but depends what speed the train was going. The overhead image seems to be the other side of the bridge from where the derailing occurred, so possible that the track where the 3 passenger cars are sitting now wasn't affected by the storm.

I guess the seemingly long period of time from the first stoppage due to the initial landslip is to check that the line the train has come down and needs to reverse back up hasn't been affected by the weather conditions, and that informs whether to proceed 'at caution' or normal speed (or even stop fully and get the passengers out by other means)?

[phope]

We stay in the area and helicopters have been flying over all day.

I know the track section well as used to commute daily back and forth to Aberdeen - as others have stated, it is in a rural agricultural area with wooded sections on one side and farmland to the other. Embankments can be steep. The line can be affected with snow piling up in the winter and it's no surprise that the torrential storm last night may have contributed to the accident

The line has had a number of upgrades and repairs in recent years but there's no will or budget to go for full electrification on the East Coast line from Edinburgh upwards, so the rolling stock on it is older/refurbished. At least two older bridges in the locality that go over the main line for farmers access are unstable and have been closed/demolished because of risk of collapse.

[IrateNinja]

sim72 said:

That's a fairly shocking image to me... coach 1 and the lead loco must have done serious acrobatics. A very faint silver lining that they were much reduced passenger numbers.