Refugees / Asylum seekers crossing the channel
Discussion
irc said:
We shouldn't accept any asylum seekers crossing the channel. They are coming from a safe country. The only debate is how to stop them coming and get them retuned either to France or their country of origin.
We should take asylum seekers but a number we choose and after being vetted at the camps or embassies. After all currently the entire population of a few countries could legitimately claim to fear persecution but we can't take them all. So we shouldn,t take queue jumping channel crossers.
Build a wall? We should take asylum seekers but a number we choose and after being vetted at the camps or embassies. After all currently the entire population of a few countries could legitimately claim to fear persecution but we can't take them all. So we shouldn,t take queue jumping channel crossers.
It strikes me there's a lot of naïveté at work here. On whose part? On ours.
Picture the scene in downtown 'home country' [insert preferred here] and listen to the exchange between these two individuals.
Dramatis personae
PIM Potential Illegal Migrant
DAB Dodgy Advising Bloke
PM: "Well I'm not sure..."
DAB: "I tell you it's really easy, You just go on a nice hike through
Europe, pay the boat man, enjoy a romantic sail with your partner and kids and there you are."
PM: "But the boatman charges so much. And is it safe?"
DAB: "It's safe as the pyramids, son. You may have to sleep out
a bit but nobody'll bother you. You may get some free clothing
in Europe too."
PM: "But I can't swim."
DAB: "That's no problem at all. Some nice French people on
a boat will give everyone a free lifejacket. They might want to take you back to France but they won't."
PM Why don't I just stay in France then?"
DAB: "Oh, they don't want you, nor do any of the other countries
on the way. That's why they want to help you get to England." You won't be stopped though, The English can't guard every way in. "
PM "But I'm worried about [insert female migrant name here] and the kids."
DAB: "Ok, just leave them at home then, they'll be fine."
PM: "So what happens when I get there. Will I need my passport?"
DAB: "No, you throw that in the sea on the way, or they'll try to send you back. After the fishes have eaten it, they won't know where to send you.
PM: " Aren't I meant to be a refugee? No-one's after me and I haven't been tortured."
DAB grabs PIM's arm and gives him a Chinese burn.
DAB: "There you are, just tell them and make up more."
PM: "OK, it sounds possible but what's in it for me?"
DAB: "All you ever wanted PIM. All you have to do is fill in a little form. Then, they give you money, they'll give you somewhere to live, they'll look after your teeth, help you buy glasses and you can even see a doctor."
PIM: "Won't the doctor tell the government who I am?"
DAB: "No, if you smile nicely, he'll recommend you to the government."
PIM: "Will they put me in one of those nasty barracks places?"
DAB: "Not a chance PIM, you'll get a lovely hotel room and later, a house. The barracks weren't good enough for our lovely travellers - that's why they set fire to them. "
PIM: "It all sounds great. But why are the English giving us all this?"
DAB: "That's simple. They know we know what we can have and they can't stop us coming to get it. They want to but they haven't
got enough boats and enough sailors to keep people like you out.
And they can't send you back, at least not for a very long time. "
PIM: "I'll go then. What do I do next?".
DB: "That's simple too. Just give me x-thousand [insert currency here] for my help and I'll give you Felix the Ferryman's number. I'd say good luck but you won't need it.
Am I joking? Certainly not. IMO, the only way to stop this is to
take away every part of the pull factor that's bringing the freeloaders.
Such as? Try some new ideas....
If a migrant come here legally, through the proper channels
and on an aircraft, train or ferry, they might get some help
but only where it's deserved.
Come hear illegally, by whatever means, and they get...
Minimal subsistence, i.e. they will be kept alive and no more.
Medical treatment only in an emergency scenario.
They'll go where they're sent, to live where told.
No documents = no chance whatsoever of any status.
When (not if) caught they will be deported to their home country
ASAP.
Not revealing the home country buys a one-way ticket to where
we decide they're going.
If all this won't do, an offshore holding/processing location is
the answer. If they aren't here, they can't go black economy, commit crimes or upset anyone. This has to be better if their
present lives really are as awful as they're claimed to be.
And for those calling such developments cruel, inhumane, etc., etc., here's the solution to their woes.
OK, Mr.&Mrs. Welcomer, here's your migrant. He's going to live
in your home for the foreseeable future. You're going to feed him, clothe, him, keep him warm and dry and keep him in the manner in which he expects to be kept.
You're' also responsible for him, regardless of what occurs. You must also deposit a sum of money with the Home Office, which
you will lose if he is not of good behaviour, commits crimes or disappears. This is called a recognisance.
Oh, and did we mention his family? They're just outside.
Picture the scene in downtown 'home country' [insert preferred here] and listen to the exchange between these two individuals.
Dramatis personae
PIM Potential Illegal Migrant
DAB Dodgy Advising Bloke
PM: "Well I'm not sure..."
DAB: "I tell you it's really easy, You just go on a nice hike through
Europe, pay the boat man, enjoy a romantic sail with your partner and kids and there you are."
PM: "But the boatman charges so much. And is it safe?"
DAB: "It's safe as the pyramids, son. You may have to sleep out
a bit but nobody'll bother you. You may get some free clothing
in Europe too."
PM: "But I can't swim."
DAB: "That's no problem at all. Some nice French people on
a boat will give everyone a free lifejacket. They might want to take you back to France but they won't."
PM Why don't I just stay in France then?"
DAB: "Oh, they don't want you, nor do any of the other countries
on the way. That's why they want to help you get to England." You won't be stopped though, The English can't guard every way in. "
PM "But I'm worried about [insert female migrant name here] and the kids."
DAB: "Ok, just leave them at home then, they'll be fine."
PM: "So what happens when I get there. Will I need my passport?"
DAB: "No, you throw that in the sea on the way, or they'll try to send you back. After the fishes have eaten it, they won't know where to send you.
PM: " Aren't I meant to be a refugee? No-one's after me and I haven't been tortured."
DAB grabs PIM's arm and gives him a Chinese burn.
DAB: "There you are, just tell them and make up more."
PM: "OK, it sounds possible but what's in it for me?"
DAB: "All you ever wanted PIM. All you have to do is fill in a little form. Then, they give you money, they'll give you somewhere to live, they'll look after your teeth, help you buy glasses and you can even see a doctor."
PIM: "Won't the doctor tell the government who I am?"
DAB: "No, if you smile nicely, he'll recommend you to the government."
PIM: "Will they put me in one of those nasty barracks places?"
DAB: "Not a chance PIM, you'll get a lovely hotel room and later, a house. The barracks weren't good enough for our lovely travellers - that's why they set fire to them. "
PIM: "It all sounds great. But why are the English giving us all this?"
DAB: "That's simple. They know we know what we can have and they can't stop us coming to get it. They want to but they haven't
got enough boats and enough sailors to keep people like you out.
And they can't send you back, at least not for a very long time. "
PIM: "I'll go then. What do I do next?".
DB: "That's simple too. Just give me x-thousand [insert currency here] for my help and I'll give you Felix the Ferryman's number. I'd say good luck but you won't need it.
Am I joking? Certainly not. IMO, the only way to stop this is to
take away every part of the pull factor that's bringing the freeloaders.
Such as? Try some new ideas....
If a migrant come here legally, through the proper channels
and on an aircraft, train or ferry, they might get some help
but only where it's deserved.
Come hear illegally, by whatever means, and they get...
Minimal subsistence, i.e. they will be kept alive and no more.
Medical treatment only in an emergency scenario.
They'll go where they're sent, to live where told.
No documents = no chance whatsoever of any status.
When (not if) caught they will be deported to their home country
ASAP.
Not revealing the home country buys a one-way ticket to where
we decide they're going.
If all this won't do, an offshore holding/processing location is
the answer. If they aren't here, they can't go black economy, commit crimes or upset anyone. This has to be better if their
present lives really are as awful as they're claimed to be.
And for those calling such developments cruel, inhumane, etc., etc., here's the solution to their woes.
OK, Mr.&Mrs. Welcomer, here's your migrant. He's going to live
in your home for the foreseeable future. You're going to feed him, clothe, him, keep him warm and dry and keep him in the manner in which he expects to be kept.
You're' also responsible for him, regardless of what occurs. You must also deposit a sum of money with the Home Office, which
you will lose if he is not of good behaviour, commits crimes or disappears. This is called a recognisance.
Oh, and did we mention his family? They're just outside.
davhill said:
It strikes me there's a lot of naïveté at work here. On whose part? On ours.
Picture the scene in downtown 'home country' [insert preferred here] and listen to the exchange between these two individuals.
Dramatis personae
PIM Potential Illegal Migrant
DAB Dodgy Advising Bloke
PM: "Well I'm not sure..."
DAB: "I tell you it's really easy, You just go on a nice hike through
Europe, pay the boat man, enjoy a romantic sail with your partner and kids and there you are."
PM: "But the boatman charges so much. And is it safe?"
DAB: "It's safe as the pyramids, son. You may have to sleep out
a bit but nobody'll bother you. You may get some free clothing
in Europe too."
PM: "But I can't swim."
DAB: "That's no problem at all. Some nice French people on
a boat will give everyone a free lifejacket. They might want to take you back to France but they won't."
PM Why don't I just stay in France then?"
DAB: "Oh, they don't want you, nor do any of the other countries
on the way. That's why they want to help you get to England." You won't be stopped though, The English can't guard every way in. "
PM "But I'm worried about [insert female migrant name here] and the kids."
DAB: "Ok, just leave them at home then, they'll be fine."
PM: "So what happens when I get there. Will I need my passport?"
DAB: "No, you throw that in the sea on the way, or they'll try to send you back. After the fishes have eaten it, they won't know where to send you.
PM: " Aren't I meant to be a refugee? No-one's after me and I haven't been tortured."
DAB grabs PIM's arm and gives him a Chinese burn.
DAB: "There you are, just tell them and make up more."
PM: "OK, it sounds possible but what's in it for me?"
DAB: "All you ever wanted PIM. All you have to do is fill in a little form. Then, they give you money, they'll give you somewhere to live, they'll look after your teeth, help you buy glasses and you can even see a doctor."
PIM: "Won't the doctor tell the government who I am?"
DAB: "No, if you smile nicely, he'll recommend you to the government."
PIM: "Will they put me in one of those nasty barracks places?"
DAB: "Not a chance PIM, you'll get a lovely hotel room and later, a house. The barracks weren't good enough for our lovely travellers - that's why they set fire to them. "
PIM: "It all sounds great. But why are the English giving us all this?"
DAB: "That's simple. They know we know what we can have and they can't stop us coming to get it. They want to but they haven't
got enough boats and enough sailors to keep people like you out.
And they can't send you back, at least not for a very long time. "
PIM: "I'll go then. What do I do next?".
DB: "That's simple too. Just give me x-thousand [insert currency here] for my help and I'll give you Felix the Ferryman's number. I'd say good luck but you won't need it.
Am I joking? Certainly not. IMO, the only way to stop this is to
take away every part of the pull factor that's bringing the freeloaders.
Such as? Try some new ideas....
If a migrant come here legally, through the proper channels
and on an aircraft, train or ferry, they might get some help
but only where it's deserved.
Come hear illegally, by whatever means, and they get...
Minimal subsistence, i.e. they will be kept alive and no more.
Medical treatment only in an emergency scenario.
They'll go where they're sent, to live where told.
No documents = no chance whatsoever of any status.
When (not if) caught they will be deported to their home country
ASAP.
Not revealing the home country buys a one-way ticket to where
we decide they're going.
If all this won't do, an offshore holding/processing location is
the answer. If they aren't here, they can't go black economy, commit crimes or upset anyone. This has to be better if their
present lives really are as awful as they're claimed to be.
And for those calling such developments cruel, inhumane, etc., etc., here's the solution to their woes.
OK, Mr.&Mrs. Welcomer, here's your migrant. He's going to live
in your home for the foreseeable future. You're going to feed him, clothe, him, keep him warm and dry and keep him in the manner in which he expects to be kept.
You're' also responsible for him, regardless of what occurs. You must also deposit a sum of money with the Home Office, which
you will lose if he is not of good behaviour, commits crimes or disappears. This is called a recognisance.
Oh, and did we mention his family? They're just outside.
And the Booker Prize for the best fiction of 2021 goes to ...............Picture the scene in downtown 'home country' [insert preferred here] and listen to the exchange between these two individuals.
Dramatis personae
PIM Potential Illegal Migrant
DAB Dodgy Advising Bloke
PM: "Well I'm not sure..."
DAB: "I tell you it's really easy, You just go on a nice hike through
Europe, pay the boat man, enjoy a romantic sail with your partner and kids and there you are."
PM: "But the boatman charges so much. And is it safe?"
DAB: "It's safe as the pyramids, son. You may have to sleep out
a bit but nobody'll bother you. You may get some free clothing
in Europe too."
PM: "But I can't swim."
DAB: "That's no problem at all. Some nice French people on
a boat will give everyone a free lifejacket. They might want to take you back to France but they won't."
PM Why don't I just stay in France then?"
DAB: "Oh, they don't want you, nor do any of the other countries
on the way. That's why they want to help you get to England." You won't be stopped though, The English can't guard every way in. "
PM "But I'm worried about [insert female migrant name here] and the kids."
DAB: "Ok, just leave them at home then, they'll be fine."
PM: "So what happens when I get there. Will I need my passport?"
DAB: "No, you throw that in the sea on the way, or they'll try to send you back. After the fishes have eaten it, they won't know where to send you.
PM: " Aren't I meant to be a refugee? No-one's after me and I haven't been tortured."
DAB grabs PIM's arm and gives him a Chinese burn.
DAB: "There you are, just tell them and make up more."
PM: "OK, it sounds possible but what's in it for me?"
DAB: "All you ever wanted PIM. All you have to do is fill in a little form. Then, they give you money, they'll give you somewhere to live, they'll look after your teeth, help you buy glasses and you can even see a doctor."
PIM: "Won't the doctor tell the government who I am?"
DAB: "No, if you smile nicely, he'll recommend you to the government."
PIM: "Will they put me in one of those nasty barracks places?"
DAB: "Not a chance PIM, you'll get a lovely hotel room and later, a house. The barracks weren't good enough for our lovely travellers - that's why they set fire to them. "
PIM: "It all sounds great. But why are the English giving us all this?"
DAB: "That's simple. They know we know what we can have and they can't stop us coming to get it. They want to but they haven't
got enough boats and enough sailors to keep people like you out.
And they can't send you back, at least not for a very long time. "
PIM: "I'll go then. What do I do next?".
DB: "That's simple too. Just give me x-thousand [insert currency here] for my help and I'll give you Felix the Ferryman's number. I'd say good luck but you won't need it.
Am I joking? Certainly not. IMO, the only way to stop this is to
take away every part of the pull factor that's bringing the freeloaders.
Such as? Try some new ideas....
If a migrant come here legally, through the proper channels
and on an aircraft, train or ferry, they might get some help
but only where it's deserved.
Come hear illegally, by whatever means, and they get...
Minimal subsistence, i.e. they will be kept alive and no more.
Medical treatment only in an emergency scenario.
They'll go where they're sent, to live where told.
No documents = no chance whatsoever of any status.
When (not if) caught they will be deported to their home country
ASAP.
Not revealing the home country buys a one-way ticket to where
we decide they're going.
If all this won't do, an offshore holding/processing location is
the answer. If they aren't here, they can't go black economy, commit crimes or upset anyone. This has to be better if their
present lives really are as awful as they're claimed to be.
And for those calling such developments cruel, inhumane, etc., etc., here's the solution to their woes.
OK, Mr.&Mrs. Welcomer, here's your migrant. He's going to live
in your home for the foreseeable future. You're going to feed him, clothe, him, keep him warm and dry and keep him in the manner in which he expects to be kept.
You're' also responsible for him, regardless of what occurs. You must also deposit a sum of money with the Home Office, which
you will lose if he is not of good behaviour, commits crimes or disappears. This is called a recognisance.
Oh, and did we mention his family? They're just outside.
unident said:
And the Booker Prize for the best fiction of 2021 goes to ...............
I know you wont like it but having fostered 2 eritreans an afghan and a ethiopian over a 5 year period and talked to them and their friends over that time 80% of that was true. The bit not put in there is the journey across the Sahara and Lybia is not fun. Certainly for those we had that was worse than being at home. They really did see murder and rape and death close up.
Edited by mdw on Wednesday 31st March 08:40
mdw said:
I know you wont like it but having fostered 2 eritreans an afghan and a ethiopian over a 5 year period and talked to them and their friends over that time 80% of that was true.
The plural of anecdote isn’t data. What was written was a sensationalist load of claptrap by someone who is overplaying the whole situation having been radicalised by Farage, or having his heartstrings at least pulled by him. What evidence is there that the situation is now worse than it was before. Equally, what evidence is there that the one day Farage picked (that conveniently fitted his narrative perfectly) is every single day and every single one gets through and / or is immediately granted asylum.The other ideas about randomly dumping people on other countries, refusing medical treatment etc is ridiculous, as is the go-to position of people having to foster them if they believe these suggestions are inhumane.
davhill said:
unident said:
And the Booker Prize for the best fiction of 2021 goes to ...............
Hmmm, pithy yet not destructive. Well done.A long post which shows a complete absence of research with a bunch of solutions which are neither practical or humane.
Let's just consider the idea you can only claim asylum if you arrive in the UK legally. Do you really know so little about the world? Asylum seekers will all be travelling from UK visa countries. You cannot apply for a visa to claim asylum. You could maybe apply for a tourist visit but to do that you have to be able show you will leave at the end of your trip. That means a good job, proof of employment, savings, a bank account, property ownership, etc. The whole system is designed to stop those who might claim asylum getting legal entry.
Edited by Mrr T on Wednesday 31st March 10:06
unident said:
The plural of anecdote isn’t data. What was written was a sensationalist load of claptrap by someone who is overplaying the whole situation having been radicalised by Farage, or having his heartstrings at least pulled by him. What evidence is there that the situation is now worse than it was before. Equally, what evidence is there that the one day Farage picked (that conveniently fitted his narrative perfectly) is every single day and every single one gets through and / or is immediately granted asylum.
The other ideas about randomly dumping people on other countries, refusing medical treatment etc is ridiculous, as is the go-to position of people having to foster them if they believe these suggestions are inhumane.
Sorry ( I did say you wouldnt like it). I can only report what I was told face to face by 4 refugees where we were the first accomodation after coming out of the back of the lorry ( as it was back then) about their whole journeys and who stayed with us for between 18 months and 3 years. Yes he has made a fancy story but 80% of it is how it is. The other ideas about randomly dumping people on other countries, refusing medical treatment etc is ridiculous, as is the go-to position of people having to foster them if they believe these suggestions are inhumane.
mdw said:
Sorry ( I did say you wouldnt like it). I can only report what I was told face to face by 4 refugees where we were the first accomodation after coming out of the back of the lorry ( as it was back then) about their whole journeys and who stayed with us for between 18 months and 3 years. Yes he has made a fancy story but 80% of it is how it is.
It’s not about liking it or not, it’s complete sensationalist nonsense. Even if some of it is right around the methodology (and I’m not convinced) the way it’s written is designed to play to emotions and get the average Daily Mail reader / Farahe supporter frothing at the mouth demanding he be made PM immediately to sort it all out. A broken clock is right twice a day, it doesn’t mean I’d use it to tell the time though.
Well, well, 80% correct? When I read that, you could've knocked me down with a JCB.
Moreover, not one TLDR. Proof positive that people read what I wrote and this is verified
by there being replies to it.
Accusations of my not doing my research are well off the mark...just look at my earlier posts
and find one that doesn't have a valid reference for the quotes in it.
mdw's actions with 'his' refugees are very laudable and I'll bet nobody made him do what he did.
However, radicalised by Farage? Me? Stuff and nonsense. Mr.F has some ideas that I
appreciate but what else happens? Priti makes noises but nothing happens while Boris
obviously doesn't give a monkey's and so the flow goes on.
My strategy worked though, in that it seems to have triggered a certain degree of
frothing in here. Result! The response about so-called go-to position and refusing
medical treatment wasthe funniest. What do you think is bringing the UMs? The DFS sale?
Cut it how you like, I have opinions and I have every right to express them. My
upbringing happened as it did and I've no intention of tyring to delete it. I'll leave
that to others who have proved they can't do such a thing anyway.
Moreover, not one TLDR. Proof positive that people read what I wrote and this is verified
by there being replies to it.
Accusations of my not doing my research are well off the mark...just look at my earlier posts
and find one that doesn't have a valid reference for the quotes in it.
mdw's actions with 'his' refugees are very laudable and I'll bet nobody made him do what he did.
However, radicalised by Farage? Me? Stuff and nonsense. Mr.F has some ideas that I
appreciate but what else happens? Priti makes noises but nothing happens while Boris
obviously doesn't give a monkey's and so the flow goes on.
My strategy worked though, in that it seems to have triggered a certain degree of
frothing in here. Result! The response about so-called go-to position and refusing
medical treatment wasthe funniest. What do you think is bringing the UMs? The DFS sale?
Cut it how you like, I have opinions and I have every right to express them. My
upbringing happened as it did and I've no intention of tyring to delete it. I'll leave
that to others who have proved they can't do such a thing anyway.
Mrr T said:
The whole system is designed to stop those who might claim asylum getting legal entry.
Why exactly should the UK be destination of choice for asylum seekers from thousands of miles away. If the object is escaping persecution surely that is achied in the first safe country. Anything more is destination shopping.Edited by Mrr T on Wednesday 31st March 10:06
irc said:
Why exactly should the UK be destination of choice for asylum seekers from thousands of miles away. If the object is escaping persecution surely that is achied in the first safe country. Anything more is destination shopping.
You’re writing as if the U.K. is the only country where people claim asylum / migrate to. Why does the first country have to take all the refugees? Turkey seems to be carrying a huge amount thoughHere are some numbers, they dwarf the 30 in a boat numbers that seem to have got people jumping up and down on here
https://www.unhcr.org/figures-at-a-glance.html
I don’t expect any of this to change your minds, it just shows how closed your minds are to the real issues.
unident said:
You’re writing as if the U.K. is the only country where people claim asylum / migrate to. Why does the first country have to take all the refugees? Turkey seems to be carrying a huge amount though
Here are some numbers, they dwarf the 30 in a boat numbers that seem to have got people jumping up and down on here
https://www.unhcr.org/figures-at-a-glance.html
I don’t expect any of this to change your minds, it just shows how closed your minds are to the real issues.
Some of the 'real issues' have minds closed to them as well though, like too many humans irresponsibly shagging everythingHere are some numbers, they dwarf the 30 in a boat numbers that seem to have got people jumping up and down on here
https://www.unhcr.org/figures-at-a-glance.html
I don’t expect any of this to change your minds, it just shows how closed your minds are to the real issues.
they can get a grip of and without any protection or even the concept of contraception. Deal with that and it would help
massively with the problem. Alas it hardly gets a mention.
Pastor Of Muppets said:
Some of the 'real issues' have minds closed to them as well though, like too many humans irresponsibly shagging everything
they can get a grip of and without any protection or even the concept of contraception. Deal with that and it would help
massively with the problem. Alas it hardly gets a mention.
Excellent. Let’s have a bit eugenic sterilisation again, just like the good old days. Last thing we need is those undesirables breedingthey can get a grip of and without any protection or even the concept of contraception. Deal with that and it would help
massively with the problem. Alas it hardly gets a mention.
irc said:
Why exactly should the UK be destination of choice for asylum seekers from thousands of miles away. If the object is escaping persecution surely that is achied in the first safe country. Anything more is destination shopping.
It's nothing other than heading for the soft touch. The only aspect of Turkey, for example, that gets my attention is its porous border and the obvious consequences.
irc said:
Mrr T said:
The whole system is designed to stop those who might claim asylum getting legal entry.
Why exactly should the UK be destination of choice for asylum seekers from thousands of miles away. If the object is escaping persecution surely that is achied in the first safe country. Anything more is destination shopping.Edited by Mrr T on Wednesday 31st March 10:06
I said before in the tread expect lots of jaw jaw.
unident said:
Pastor Of Muppets said:
Some of the 'real issues' have minds closed to them as well though, like too many humans irresponsibly shagging everything
they can get a grip of and without any protection or even the concept of contraception. Deal with that and it would help
massively with the problem. Alas it hardly gets a mention.
Excellent. Let’s have a bit eugenic sterilisation again, just like the good old days. Last thing we need is those undesirables breedingthey can get a grip of and without any protection or even the concept of contraception. Deal with that and it would help
massively with the problem. Alas it hardly gets a mention.
vulture1 said:
He has a point. Also the easiest thing to combat all the worlds other issues, food shortage, housing shortage, poverty, decreasing value of human life overall would benefit from less of a population.
Quite possibly but only for those lesser people in lesser countries though. Wouldn’t want the Great British strain to become diluted would we. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff