Refugees / Asylum seekers crossing the channel
Discussion
I am at a complete loss as to how these people in RIBs etc how are classified
The media say they are asylums seekers or economic migrants
they also pay 1000s to float across on an inner tube
My possibly warped way of thinking what they exactly are is
If they can afford that amount of cash, why do they not purchase a ferry foot passenger tickat and present themselves at the port of entry?
it is cheaper and safer and it is the legal way to do things if claiming asylum..However they have travelled trough several safe counties where there is no war and could have already done this
But they choose to risk their lives, and the only answer i can think of is the promise ( perceived or otherwise, we see a lot of propaganda from the right wing mobs saying how much they get etc ,but despite asking for proof none is forthcoming from them) of a land of milk and honey.which they know gheres is no chance of getting it going through the proper channels ( no pun intended)
so coming across on a ferry with all papers and presenting yourself is legal
Any other way is illegal and as such they should be labelled as ILLEGALLY trying to enter the country Yet the Govt hasn't got the balls to implement Section 24 (1) (a)
Anyone who arrives on a beach and then disappears is surely an illegal entrant and should be treated as such.
I wish we had the attitude that Australia has with regard to boat people
And don't get me wrong i welcomed anyone of any colour race or creed to come here and contribute to this country as long as they do it legally and not run up the beach and get absorbed and be used and abused by those who think using cheap labour and knowing the workers will/cannot complain is wrong and these people should also be brought to book, and dealt with. BUT the lilylivered CPS and judciary are as complicit by not handing out heavy sentences. There was a case of a woman who defrauded the system, and her beirf had the frigging audacity to claim she was not aware she was doing wrong I mean FFS when there are idiots like this batting for these leeches we have no chance
Ask yourself how many professional people come over that way and you have your answer,
The media say they are asylums seekers or economic migrants
they also pay 1000s to float across on an inner tube
My possibly warped way of thinking what they exactly are is
If they can afford that amount of cash, why do they not purchase a ferry foot passenger tickat and present themselves at the port of entry?
it is cheaper and safer and it is the legal way to do things if claiming asylum..However they have travelled trough several safe counties where there is no war and could have already done this
But they choose to risk their lives, and the only answer i can think of is the promise ( perceived or otherwise, we see a lot of propaganda from the right wing mobs saying how much they get etc ,but despite asking for proof none is forthcoming from them) of a land of milk and honey.which they know gheres is no chance of getting it going through the proper channels ( no pun intended)
so coming across on a ferry with all papers and presenting yourself is legal
Any other way is illegal and as such they should be labelled as ILLEGALLY trying to enter the country Yet the Govt hasn't got the balls to implement Section 24 (1) (a)
Anyone who arrives on a beach and then disappears is surely an illegal entrant and should be treated as such.
I wish we had the attitude that Australia has with regard to boat people
And don't get me wrong i welcomed anyone of any colour race or creed to come here and contribute to this country as long as they do it legally and not run up the beach and get absorbed and be used and abused by those who think using cheap labour and knowing the workers will/cannot complain is wrong and these people should also be brought to book, and dealt with. BUT the lilylivered CPS and judciary are as complicit by not handing out heavy sentences. There was a case of a woman who defrauded the system, and her beirf had the frigging audacity to claim she was not aware she was doing wrong I mean FFS when there are idiots like this batting for these leeches we have no chance
Ask yourself how many professional people come over that way and you have your answer,
In a similar vein, I watched a horrific clip recently of a family I think in a services car park somewhere and their roof top box had been infiltrated by 3 of these chancers, it was genuinely distressing to watch. The husband was ready to punch their lights out, the kids were crying openly and the wife was beside herself, and these little chancers just stood there for a bit then just ran through the hedge. I have also had experience of seeing them at ferry ports, and of racing teams having them break into car trailers etc it is rife I think you will find.
In reality there is nothing we can do about it, fair play to Farage for highlighting it, yes it is right up his alley, but the cost is enormous, but as already said what on earth can you do to stop it?
In reality there is nothing we can do about it, fair play to Farage for highlighting it, yes it is right up his alley, but the cost is enormous, but as already said what on earth can you do to stop it?
coolg said:
Murph7355 said:
silverfoxcc said:
...
If they can afford that amount of cash, why do they not purchase a ferry foot passenger tickat and present themselves at the port of entry?...
Have a guess If they can afford that amount of cash, why do they not purchase a ferry foot passenger tickat and present themselves at the port of entry?...
coolg said:
Murph7355 said:
silverfoxcc said:
...
If they can afford that amount of cash, why do they not purchase a ferry foot passenger tickat and present themselves at the port of entry?...
Have a guess If they can afford that amount of cash, why do they not purchase a ferry foot passenger tickat and present themselves at the port of entry?...
I'm not sure when this was actually produced, I was sent it.
https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1296711039661...
https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1296711039661...
ChrisnChris said:
I'm not sure when this was actually produced, I was sent it.
https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1296711039661...
i doubt he came up with this himself, looks like the same rehearsed arguments that twitter is full of.https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1296711039661...
He was a little sketchy with details as to regard where he came from what he was fleeing and why he didn't feel safe in any other country.
Is he saying he is not a doctor but a cleaner ?
silverfoxcc said:
But they choose to risk their lives, and the only answer i can think of is the promise ( perceived or otherwise, we see a lot of propaganda from the right wing mobs saying how much they get etc ,but despite asking for proof none is forthcoming from them) of a land of milk and honey.which they know gheres is no chance of getting it going through the proper channels ( no pun intended)
I don't think the UK would have acquired such a reputation if there wasn't a degree of truth to it.And there's no way people would be risking their lives leaving a 'safe' EU country if it was a long-expired rumour.
The 'land of milk and honey' thing - like you say, they perhaps don't get as much as the extreme right wing propaganda suggests, but the simple fact that people continue to risk their lives coming here, tells you there is some truth in the theory.
coolg said:
i doubt he came up with this himself, looks like the same rehearsed arguments that twitter is full of.
He was a little sketchy with details as to regard where he came from what he was fleeing and why he didn't feel safe in any other country.
Is he saying he is not a doctor but a cleaner ?
In fairness... I met a bloke recently who came over to the UK in the back of a lorry illegally. He now drives lorries. He was a little sketchy with details as to regard where he came from what he was fleeing and why he didn't feel safe in any other country.
Is he saying he is not a doctor but a cleaner ?
He did tell me where he came from and I've got close enough with him to call him a friendly acquaintance now. He came from Iraq in 2003. But he wouldn't call himself Iraqi. I made that mistake - and he told me firmly he was Palestinian but his family had moved there when he was a kid. He left after the locals in Bagdad started throwing petrol bombs at the house after Saddam lost his power.
He never knew he was coming to the UK and actually wanted to get to Canada. At the time his family pooled with money and sent him away he was 20(ish) at the time. He got dropped off in Newport and speaking no English thought they were saying he was in New York. His family were meant to be going to Jordan but were going back to the home to collect some stuff before going. They had left after being threatened but the mother and small brother and sister thought they'd be safe going back to collect some bits.
Now it's easy to say he is a fighting age male etc. And that he shouldn't have come here. He certainly passed through countries in Europe that are safe. All I know is after he left his family did disappear. I know this cos he told me. And he showed me the newpaper adds he's taken out in Bagdad offering money for information about them. He's managed to find out when the phones were last used etc - and I think we can all assume that it didn't end well for them. He also took out newspaper ads in Jordan asking for information. He'd paid people on the ground to try and find out.
I think if some people who hold opinions (like I did) met some of the people who we assume are scroungers etc we might have a different opinion. On a human level, I don't really care if he could have gone somewhere else. I just feel sorry for the bloke. He works and contributes to our country, he speaks perfect English. And having him here isn't a problem at all. He is no Doctor and does a fairly low skilled job - but after everything else, I think he should be left alone and allowed to get on with his life.
milkround said:
In fairness... I met a bloke recently who came over to the UK in the back of a lorry illegally. He now drives lorries.
He did tell me where he came from and I've got close enough with him to call him a friendly acquaintance now. He came from Iraq in 2003. But he wouldn't call himself Iraqi. I made that mistake - and he told me firmly he was Palestinian but his family had moved there when he was a kid. He left after the locals in Bagdad started throwing petrol bombs at the house after Saddam lost his power.
He never knew he was coming to the UK and actually wanted to get to Canada. At the time his family pooled with money and sent him away he was 20(ish) at the time. He got dropped off in Newport and speaking no English thought they were saying he was in New York. His family were meant to be going to Jordan but were going back to the home to collect some stuff before going. They had left after being threatened but the mother and small brother and sister thought they'd be safe going back to collect some bits.
Now it's easy to say he is a fighting age male etc. And that he shouldn't have come here. He certainly passed through countries in Europe that are safe. All I know is after he left his family did disappear. I know this cos he told me. And he showed me the newpaper adds he's taken out in Bagdad offering money for information about them. He's managed to find out when the phones were last used etc - and I think we can all assume that it didn't end well for them. He also took out newspaper ads in Jordan asking for information. He'd paid people on the ground to try and find out.
I think if some people who hold opinions (like I did) met some of the people who we assume are scroungers etc we might have a different opinion. On a human level, I don't really care if he could have gone somewhere else. I just feel sorry for the bloke. He works and contributes to our country, he speaks perfect English. And having him here isn't a problem at all. He is no Doctor and does a fairly low skilled job - but after everything else, I think he should be left alone and allowed to get on with his life.
You may well be right.............but the current message is Refugees Welcome, all of them.He did tell me where he came from and I've got close enough with him to call him a friendly acquaintance now. He came from Iraq in 2003. But he wouldn't call himself Iraqi. I made that mistake - and he told me firmly he was Palestinian but his family had moved there when he was a kid. He left after the locals in Bagdad started throwing petrol bombs at the house after Saddam lost his power.
He never knew he was coming to the UK and actually wanted to get to Canada. At the time his family pooled with money and sent him away he was 20(ish) at the time. He got dropped off in Newport and speaking no English thought they were saying he was in New York. His family were meant to be going to Jordan but were going back to the home to collect some stuff before going. They had left after being threatened but the mother and small brother and sister thought they'd be safe going back to collect some bits.
Now it's easy to say he is a fighting age male etc. And that he shouldn't have come here. He certainly passed through countries in Europe that are safe. All I know is after he left his family did disappear. I know this cos he told me. And he showed me the newpaper adds he's taken out in Bagdad offering money for information about them. He's managed to find out when the phones were last used etc - and I think we can all assume that it didn't end well for them. He also took out newspaper ads in Jordan asking for information. He'd paid people on the ground to try and find out.
I think if some people who hold opinions (like I did) met some of the people who we assume are scroungers etc we might have a different opinion. On a human level, I don't really care if he could have gone somewhere else. I just feel sorry for the bloke. He works and contributes to our country, he speaks perfect English. And having him here isn't a problem at all. He is no Doctor and does a fairly low skilled job - but after everything else, I think he should be left alone and allowed to get on with his life.
What did we really know about him when he arrived, there are good ones and there are bad ones but have no mechanism to work that out ?
Did they undercut a "local" lorry driver / cleaner / low skilled worker to get job ? Do we need more cleaners and Lorry Drivers ?
Last week there was a story about an Iraqi refugee that gained a place at Oxford, after we had paid for his medical treatment for the past 15 years, and there are stories about refugees raping and murdering.
We know nothing about these people at all, not even their age and yet we should open our doors and welcome them.
milkround said:
In fairness... I met a bloke recently who came over to the UK in the back of a lorry illegally. He now drives lorries.
He did tell me where he came from and I've got close enough with him to call him a friendly acquaintance now. He came from Iraq in 2003. But he wouldn't call himself Iraqi. I made that mistake - and he told me firmly he was Palestinian but his family had moved there when he was a kid. He left after the locals in Bagdad started throwing petrol bombs at the house after Saddam lost his power.
He never knew he was coming to the UK and actually wanted to get to Canada. At the time his family pooled with money and sent him away he was 20(ish) at the time. He got dropped off in Newport and speaking no English thought they were saying he was in New York. His family were meant to be going to Jordan but were going back to the home to collect some stuff before going. They had left after being threatened but the mother and small brother and sister thought they'd be safe going back to collect some bits.
Now it's easy to say he is a fighting age male etc. And that he shouldn't have come here. He certainly passed through countries in Europe that are safe. All I know is after he left his family did disappear. I know this cos he told me. And he showed me the newpaper adds he's taken out in Bagdad offering money for information about them. He's managed to find out when the phones were last used etc - and I think we can all assume that it didn't end well for them. He also took out newspaper ads in Jordan asking for information. He'd paid people on the ground to try and find out.
I think if some people who hold opinions (like I did) met some of the people who we assume are scroungers etc we might have a different opinion. On a human level, I don't really care if he could have gone somewhere else. I just feel sorry for the bloke. He works and contributes to our country, he speaks perfect English. And having him here isn't a problem at all. He is no Doctor and does a fairly low skilled job - but after everything else, I think he should be left alone and allowed to get on with his life.
So he arrived illegally and now has an HGV licence. Care to explain how he has achieve that? Where did he qualify for a British driving licence and then went through the course to get the qualification? Or did he 'buy' an EU one on the way to our shores?He did tell me where he came from and I've got close enough with him to call him a friendly acquaintance now. He came from Iraq in 2003. But he wouldn't call himself Iraqi. I made that mistake - and he told me firmly he was Palestinian but his family had moved there when he was a kid. He left after the locals in Bagdad started throwing petrol bombs at the house after Saddam lost his power.
He never knew he was coming to the UK and actually wanted to get to Canada. At the time his family pooled with money and sent him away he was 20(ish) at the time. He got dropped off in Newport and speaking no English thought they were saying he was in New York. His family were meant to be going to Jordan but were going back to the home to collect some stuff before going. They had left after being threatened but the mother and small brother and sister thought they'd be safe going back to collect some bits.
Now it's easy to say he is a fighting age male etc. And that he shouldn't have come here. He certainly passed through countries in Europe that are safe. All I know is after he left his family did disappear. I know this cos he told me. And he showed me the newpaper adds he's taken out in Bagdad offering money for information about them. He's managed to find out when the phones were last used etc - and I think we can all assume that it didn't end well for them. He also took out newspaper ads in Jordan asking for information. He'd paid people on the ground to try and find out.
I think if some people who hold opinions (like I did) met some of the people who we assume are scroungers etc we might have a different opinion. On a human level, I don't really care if he could have gone somewhere else. I just feel sorry for the bloke. He works and contributes to our country, he speaks perfect English. And having him here isn't a problem at all. He is no Doctor and does a fairly low skilled job - but after everything else, I think he should be left alone and allowed to get on with his life.
milkround said:
....
I think if some people who hold opinions (like I did) met some of the people who we assume are scroungers etc we might have a different opinion. On a human level, I don't really care if he could have gone somewhere else. I just feel sorry for the bloke. He works and contributes to our country, he speaks perfect English. And having him here isn't a problem at all. He is no Doctor and does a fairly low skilled job - but after everything else, I think he should be left alone and allowed to get on with his life.
This is fine, but....what of those legitimately already here who might need that job? Perhaps not a month ago, but what about in 3mths' time when unemployment rates are that much higher? Or what of those who took the authorised route to get here legally?I think if some people who hold opinions (like I did) met some of the people who we assume are scroungers etc we might have a different opinion. On a human level, I don't really care if he could have gone somewhere else. I just feel sorry for the bloke. He works and contributes to our country, he speaks perfect English. And having him here isn't a problem at all. He is no Doctor and does a fairly low skilled job - but after everything else, I think he should be left alone and allowed to get on with his life.
Hats off to the guy for finding work, learning the language etc. A good example that others here could follow (possibly). But a backstory is not an acceptable reason to allow illegal immigration at a macro national level. You feel empathy toward the guy, but what of all the others with an even more heart wrenching story who he has jumped the queue on?
pequod said:
So he arrived illegally and now has an HGV licence. Care to explain how he has achieve that? Where did he qualify for a British driving licence and then went through the course to get the qualification? Or did he 'buy' an EU one on the way to our shores?
At the risk of being seen as devil’s advocate, my kid was issued with his German driving licence after proving that he held a U.K. one when he moved there permanently in the mid eighties.He got an Australian one the same way when he lived there for around seven years.
So IF the Palestinian guy got a U.K. licence by applying for a provisional car licence, then passing the test, he could have paid for an H.G.V. course, and then passed that, but that’s just a thought, I’ve no idea if it works that way.
Frank7 said:
pequod said:
So he arrived illegally and now has an HGV licence. Care to explain how he has achieve that? Where did he qualify for a British driving licence and then went through the course to get the qualification? Or did he 'buy' an EU one on the way to our shores?
At the risk of being seen as devil’s advocate, my kid was issued with his German driving licence after proving that he held a U.K. one when he moved there permanently in the mid eighties.He got an Australian one the same way when he lived there for around seven years.
So IF the Palestinian guy got a U.K. licence by applying for a provisional car licence, then passing the test, he could have paid for an H.G.V. course, and then passed that, but that’s just a thought, I’ve no idea if it works that way.
However, assuming he has a licence to drive cars, where did he pass his HGV course?
pequod said:
Does a Palestinian driving licence qualify for automatic issue of a German permit to drive? Or the same in Australia, albeit it's a land of drongos with dubious skills!!!?
However, assuming he has a licence to drive cars, where did he pass his HGV course?
In Wales. However, assuming he has a licence to drive cars, where did he pass his HGV course?
It's the third career for him (if you can call driving a career) - in Iraq he had a business with the family selling tobacco and cigarettes. When he first came here he ran some restaurants. He then saved some money and paid to do the course and pass the test.
Not that I see how any of it really matters.
He is PAYE driver who pays taxes and national insurance. Unlike many drivers who set up a Ltd company and pay as little back as humanly possible. If you want to find fault with people you will eventually - but he is a genuinely nice bloke who is an example of what you can do from nothing if you want to apply yourself.
milkround said:
pequod said:
Does a Palestinian driving licence qualify for automatic issue of a German permit to drive? Or the same in Australia, albeit it's a land of drongos with dubious skills!!!?
However, assuming he has a licence to drive cars, where did he pass his HGV course?
In Wales. However, assuming he has a licence to drive cars, where did he pass his HGV course?
It's the third career for him (if you can call driving a career) - in Iraq he had a business with the family selling tobacco and cigarettes. When he first came here he ran some restaurants. He then saved some money and paid to do the course and pass the test.
Not that I see how any of it really matters.
He is PAYE driver who pays taxes and national insurance. Unlike many drivers who set up a Ltd company and pay as little back as humanly possible. If you want to find fault with people you will eventually - but he is a genuinely nice bloke who is an example of what you can do from nothing if you want to apply yourself.
The only mistake he made was to arrive here illegally in the back of a truck but clearly, he has gone through the process and has been granted asylum and a new life in the UK, so this is obviously why so many are queued in Calais to follow suit. And why wouldn't they, with success stories such as your Palestinian trucker?
pequod said:
Does a Palestinian driving licence qualify for automatic issue of a German permit to drive? Or the same in Australia, albeit it's a land of drongos with dubious skills!!!?
However, assuming he has a licence to drive cars, where did he pass his HGV course?
I don’t even know if there is such a thing as a Palestinian driving licence, is there a Palestinian State to issue one?However, assuming he has a licence to drive cars, where did he pass his HGV course?
Maybe they’re issued by Israel, but I digress, if the guy in question paid for an H.G.V. driving course in U.K., let’s say £1000 at a guess, perhaps part of the deal is that they book a test for you at the relevant H.G.V. test centre.
Frank7 said:
coolg said:
Murph7355 said:
silverfoxcc said:
...
If they can afford that amount of cash, why do they not purchase a ferry foot passenger tickat and present themselves at the port of entry?...
Have a guess If they can afford that amount of cash, why do they not purchase a ferry foot passenger tickat and present themselves at the port of entry?...
I'm also bemused that some of you seem to think there is any way of claiming asylum in the UK when you are actually outside of the UK.
milkround said:
pequod said:
Does a Palestinian driving licence qualify for automatic issue of a German permit to drive? Or the same in Australia, albeit it's a land of drongos with dubious skills!!!?
However, assuming he has a licence to drive cars, where did he pass his HGV course?
In Wales. However, assuming he has a licence to drive cars, where did he pass his HGV course?
It's the third career for him (if you can call driving a career) - in Iraq he had a business with the family selling tobacco and cigarettes. When he first came here he ran some restaurants. He then saved some money and paid to do the course and pass the test.
Not that I see how any of it really matters.
He is PAYE driver who pays taxes and national insurance. Unlike many drivers who set up a Ltd company and pay as little back as humanly possible. If you want to find fault with people you will eventually - but he is a genuinely nice bloke who is an example of what you can do from nothing if you want to apply yourself.
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