Sir Ed Davey - Lib. Dem Leader

[glazbagun]

PR might have a better shot this time around but rejoining the EU or another referendum would be to continue the political paralysis of the last 7 years.

The wheels were coming off before Covid and we've had nothing being done apart from headline chasing.

[tangerine_sedge]

Carl_Manchester said:

Ed has placed proportional representation and re-joining the EU on his wish list for a potential Labour tie up.

Has he? I watched the Laura K interview yesterday and he steered the interview away from a wish list of terms. There are a few articles online placing PR & Brexit front and centre in their headlines, but with no quotes or substance to support that - so I assume it's confection for their target audience to kick against.

Now it's likely that both of these subjects will be up for discussion if Labour want to go into coalition with the Lib Dems, but I think it's likely that the Lib Dems will just accept having helped to kick out the tories and have some power.

[CoolHands]

Of course that’s what they want. He’s just doing a keir by not talking about anything of substance to try and get more seats, and it’s obviously working. Voting for these muppets, like the greens, is dangerous.

[MC Bodge]

CoolHands said:

Of course that’s what they want. He’s just doing a keir by not talking about anything of substance to try and get more seats, and it’s obviously working. Voting for these muppets, like the greens, is dangerous.

Any good ideas revealed now will be nicked by the rudderless, bizarre, desperate, modern Tories.

PR should happen. The transition may be painful for some, and some will lose out, possibly even the Lib Dems, but it needs to happen.

[s1962a]

abzmike said:

Carl_Manchester said:

Ed has placed proportional representation and re-joining the EU on his wish list for a potential Labour tie up.

They may be on his wish list but I doubt he’ll get either.

If the lib dems promised another referendum on re-joining the EU, they may get the protest votes that would give them more leverage in any coalition. Or it could backfire spectacularly, which is probably why they aren't going there.

[Carl_Manchester]

I think (unless someone else knows better) that the Lib Dem website has changed to include this:

2023:



https://www.libdems.org.uk/values

2021:




https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/brexit-ed-d...

[MC Bodge]

Derek Smith said:

I live in a constituency that has been tory since its inception. The LDs have made significant inroads into local government, mainly, I feel, because the local tories are out of their depth. They had dozens on council meetings in camera, and now we get to know what goes on. The tories wrecked the town centra of my town and tried to close the library and did close a council run meeting centre. Both ensured footfall during the day. Madness.

Locally, they ask people who live in the area their problems and what the council can do to help. They answer emails quickly and actually answer the question asked, something the tories fail to do.

They view my constituency as one they can win, although they admit the odds are against them. It's on the limit. They are making friends though, and being talked of. If they win here, and the change is similar nationwide, the tories will struggle to mount an opposition post GE if labour do well. It's highly unlikely, I know, but it is not impossible. All it takes is one more mistake, or internecine battle, to push them beyond the pale. I mean, as if.

I want a hung parliament, with labour and the LDs having to cooperate, and where there's a difference, compromise.

The (decreasing in number) borough Tory councillors and MP I have met have been broadly of "a type". "Smug", "comfortable", "reactionary" and/or "opportunistic financially/spiv". Not really tribal as such, but have typically united successfully.

Labour councillors range from angry lefty to centrist, but all have a tendency to be a bit tribal "Labour or nothing". PR is probably against what many of them stand for, despite their lack of success under FPTP at Westminster.

Lib Dems tend to be quite educated, middle-class, nice people, not cool, but very community-minded and get stuck in to sorting out local issues.

[S600BSB]

s1962a said:

abzmike said:

Carl_Manchester said:

Ed has placed proportional representation and re-joining the EU on his wish list for a potential Labour tie up.

They may be on his wish list but I doubt he’ll get either.

If the lib dems promised another referendum on re-joining the EU, they may get the protest votes that would give them more leverage in any coalition. Or it could backfire spectacularly, which is probably why they aren't going there.

More likely that people will just vote tactically next time - support whoever is best placed to boot out the tories. More important right now than referendums on PR etc.

[jamesson]

A Winner Is You said:

I don't think the members really understood what they were voting for. The most democratic option would be to have a second, confirmatory vote, just to check it is the direction they wish to proceed, and allow those who were too young to vote in the previous contest to have their say. After all, what's wrong with more democracy?

I realise this quote was from almost three years ago, but I've only just read the thread.



Should we re run general elections every week to give those who haven't quite reached their 18th birthday a say? And, you know, just to be sure that's really who we want to run the country.

It was made perfectly clear before the referendum what people were voting for.

Would you have called for a second vote if we had voted to remain? You know, just to be sure.

[Hants PHer]

It'll be interesting to see what happens if, in the event of a Lab-Lib coalition, Ed Davey makes a Brexit referendum 2 a condition of the Libs' support. Would Sir Keir say "Forget it, we're going nowhere near that", or might the response be "OK, we're open to that, as long as you drop the PR stuff"?

Hypothetical I suppose, but the handful of Lib Dem voters I know regard reversing Brexit as their number one priority.

[SpeckledJim]

Hants PHer said:

It'll be interesting to see what happens if, in the event of a Lab-Lib coalition, Ed Davey makes a Brexit referendum 2 a condition of the Libs' support. Would Sir Keir say "Forget it, we're going nowhere near that", or might the response be "OK, we're open to that, as long as you drop the PR stuff"?

Hypothetical I suppose, but the handful of Lib Dem voters I know regard reversing Brexit as their number one priority.

I doubt Kier would be keen to reopen that fissure. He's putting a lot of effort into getting the party corralled into one direction. If he backs another referendum then it'll split right down the middle again and the Red Wall he thought he'd won back will go purple.

[jamesson]

SpeckledJim said:

Hants PHer said:

It'll be interesting to see what happens if, in the event of a Lab-Lib coalition, Ed Davey makes a Brexit referendum 2 a condition of the Libs' support. Would Sir Keir say "Forget it, we're going nowhere near that", or might the response be "OK, we're open to that, as long as you drop the PR stuff"?

Hypothetical I suppose, but the handful of Lib Dem voters I know regard reversing Brexit as their number one priority.

I doubt Kier would be keen to reopen that fissure. He's putting a lot of effort into getting the party corralled into one direction. If he backs another referendum then it'll split right down the middle again and the Red Wall he thought he'd won back will go purple.

I agree. Regardless of what side you're on re the EU, I can't see Starmer wishing to reignite all that again.

[pequod]

I don't think the LibDems are in any mood to consider a coalition after their storming success of last week.

"Go back to your constituencies, and prepare for government!" - D. Steel (1981)

[Bannock]

Hants PHer said:

It'll be interesting to see what happens if, in the event of a Lab-Lib coalition, Ed Davey makes a Brexit referendum 2 a condition of the Libs' support. Would Sir Keir say "Forget it, we're going nowhere near that", or might the response be "OK, we're open to that, as long as you drop the PR stuff"?

Hypothetical I suppose, but the handful of Lib Dem voters I know regard reversing Brexit as their number one priority.

I'm a LibDem member, PR is my number one priority.

Secondary to that I'd say joining EEA/EFTA, with a view to reviewing after say approximately 5 years. At that point, I'd rather it was offered as a manifesto pledge than a referendum, perhaps at the next but one General Election, which would be held under PR.

My third priority would be House of Lords reform, to usher in a second chamber with a majority of elected "Lords", plus a number of specialist expert appointees drawn from a multi-party nomination and selection process, governed by an independent appointment authority.

Then we can start rebuilding our broken country.

[Derek Smith]

Bannock said:

Hants PHer said:

It'll be interesting to see what happens if, in the event of a Lab-Lib coalition, Ed Davey makes a Brexit referendum 2 a condition of the Libs' support. Would Sir Keir say "Forget it, we're going nowhere near that", or might the response be "OK, we're open to that, as long as you drop the PR stuff"?

Hypothetical I suppose, but the handful of Lib Dem voters I know regard reversing Brexit as their number one priority.

I'm a LibDem member, PR is my number one priority.

Secondary to that I'd say joining EEA/EFTA, with a view to reviewing after say approximately 5 years. At that point, I'd rather it was offered as a manifesto pledge than a referendum, perhaps at the next but one General Election, which would be held under PR.

My third priority would be House of Lords reform, to usher in a second chamber with a majority of elected "Lords", plus a number of specialist expert appointees drawn from a multi-party nomination and selection process, governed by an independent appointment authority.

Then we can start rebuilding our broken country.

I doubt the EU, as a whole, will want the UK back in the fold. Johnson mentioned, many times, that the 'Norwegian Option' was on the cards. That, to me, is about as far as the EU will allow. They rejected it pre vote, but I assume that was a scare tactic. There is talk about the EU wanting closer relations with the UK, presumably on trade barriers. They want our money.

I doubt the LDs will form a coalition with labour at the next election if it results in a hung parliament. I expect them to 'work in cooperation' or some such broad, meaningless meme. There will be back door negotiations, but with nothing official, so as not to scare off those LDs with a medium term memory.

Given the performance of the tories over recent, not brexit, GEs, they'll probably struggle for an overall majority even without a resurgent LD. Both labour and the tories will lose voters to the LDs, but the latter will lose the most, and significantly so, if the locals are anything to go by. But perhaps they are not.

I hope we do have a hung parliament in order to block the zealots on all sides.

[Bannock]

Derek Smith said:

I doubt the EU, as a whole, will want the UK back in the fold.

Remains to be seen. With the permission of the UK people in the form of a government elected on a manifesto promise to return, then perhaps it is possible they will reconsider. We can but ask.

Not today, not tomorrow, but towards the end of the next but one parliamentary term, and with EEA/EFTA type arrangement as a holding position in the meantime, then maybe. Anything is possible, and all I was doing was outlining what I think the LibDems should offer as an proposition.

[Derek Smith]

Bannock said:

Derek Smith said:

I doubt the EU, as a whole, will want the UK back in the fold.

Remains to be seen. With the permission of the UK people in the form of a government elected on a manifesto promise to return, then perhaps it is possible they will reconsider. We can but ask.

Not today, not tomorrow, but towards the end of the next but one parliamentary term, and with EEA/EFTA type arrangement as a holding position in the meantime, then maybe. Anything is possible, and all I was doing was outlining what I think the LibDems should offer as an proposition.

Not criticising you. I accept most of my opinions are guesses. Some informed, others not so much so.

[Carl_Manchester]

pequod said:

I don't think the LibDems are in any mood to consider a coalition after their storming success of last week.

"Go back to your constituencies, and prepare for government!" - D. Steel (1981)

I do wonder if Ed decides to actively campaign on the basis of Rejoin and proportional representation, if it will catch SKS off guard and turn the next election into a de-facto referendum on both issues.

[OutInTheShed]

Exactly what we don't need IMVHO, is another decade of constitutional navel gazing debate about the optimal arrangement of the deckchairs on the Titanic.

[Bannock]

OutInTheShed said:

Exactly what we don't need IMVHO, is another decade of constitutional navel gazing debate about the optimal arrangement of the deckchairs on the Titanic.

Because the current arrangements have served us so well?