Sir Ed Davey - Lib. Dem Leader
Discussion
Derek Smith said:
They consider the next elections and try to influence the locals by, and a dirty trick this, providing things they want.
The b
ds...I know a few LD councillors. They are hard working, decent people who are well-liked by their electors.
LDs have to work harder than Labour and Tories.
BikeBikeBIke said:
Except the 2010 election made their brand toxic for 10 years.
Voters only like politicians if they're not in power. The last thing the lib Dems need is power or influence. Which raises a question...
I actually thought the LibDems were a force for good in the coalition, and liked some of their people (probably top amongst them Danny Alexander, despite being both a ginge and Scottish).Voters only like politicians if they're not in power. The last thing the lib Dems need is power or influence. Which raises a question...
The policies they "compromised" on (dropped) I disagreed with anyway. I thought they were strung up on the voting system referendum, which was a massive shame as we needed change there...and if there had been an option on the voting slip in 2015 for a continuation of the coalition, I'd have voted for it.
I obviously disagreed with their view ahead of the referendum, and think their stance after it made them unelectable for me. Not so much because of their desire to rejoin the EU (though that was obviously part of it), but more because of the views some of their number were pushing in terms of simply ignoring the result (in essence).
A good chunk of their historic principles I am on board with, but 2016 onwards has made me join the ranks of those who think they cannot be trusted.
ATG said:
Do they communicate who they are effectively? No.
Are they in anyway "extreme"? No. That's just daft.
Their core principles are individual liberty while collectively exercising social responsibility. That is more complicated to convey than the other party's "up the workers, fk the bosses" or "I'm alright, Jack".
Whilst trying to annul the largest democratic process this country has ever seen because they didn’t like the result?Are they in anyway "extreme"? No. That's just daft.
Their core principles are individual liberty while collectively exercising social responsibility. That is more complicated to convey than the other party's "up the workers, f
k the bosses" or "I'm alright, Jack".The Liberal Democrats are neither liberal or democratic.
Ten years ago I’d have given consideration to voting for them.
After the last few years, and especially as they can’t acknowledge what a woman is, not a chance !
Mind you, neither Labour or Conservative would get my vote either, so like a great many others I consider myself, for the first time in my adult life, to be politically homeless.
The Lib Dems have not been very liberal since about 2015 when they disposed of Tim Farron and the slow self-destruction of Vince Cable once he entered office in 2010 was painful to watch. He used to be an intelligent man dontcha know.
Theres was plenty of Lib Dem nut jobs on Twitter but many in that group have defected to the Greens (I used to follow a bunch).
If you want to find the current extremist fringe of the Lib Dem party then just look for the accounts for those who want to re-join the EU and of course, people like Layla Moran who is three matches short of a full box.
In summary, this bunch is not very Liberal and not very Democratic but they do a good job in local councils, you just could not trust them to run the country with the lot they have currently in parliament, whether they can grow that number of MPs and somehow not be infiltrated with Ultra Remainer nutters waiving the Palestinian flag remains to be seen.
Theres was plenty of Lib Dem nut jobs on Twitter but many in that group have defected to the Greens (I used to follow a bunch).
If you want to find the current extremist fringe of the Lib Dem party then just look for the accounts for those who want to re-join the EU and of course, people like Layla Moran who is three matches short of a full box.
In summary, this bunch is not very Liberal and not very Democratic but they do a good job in local councils, you just could not trust them to run the country with the lot they have currently in parliament, whether they can grow that number of MPs and somehow not be infiltrated with Ultra Remainer nutters waiving the Palestinian flag remains to be seen.
MC Bodge said:
Derek Smith said:
They consider the next elections and try to influence the locals by, and a dirty trick this, providing things they want.
The bds...I know a few LD councillors. They are hard working, decent people who are well-liked by their electors.
LDs have to work harder than Labour and Tories.
It's simple enough as a marketing strategy for their party. One wonders why the tories didn't try it.
I am politically homeless at the moment. I couldn't bring myself to vote for the Conservatives, they are simply the worst government I have seen. Nor would I vote Labour - Keir Starmer is insipid, directionless and seemingly incapable of taking a stance on anything in any way contentious. I do not believe Starmer has 'solved' the problem of the Labour hard left and that is a major deterrent to me to vote for them. I feel disinclined to vote for the Liberal Democrats too. This is two-fold: local and national. Locally, I find the leader of the Liberal Democrats personally distasteful and politically un-voteable for. Nationally, I find myself slow to forgive them for their actions under Jo Swinson and am far from enthused by Ed Davy. I feel that unless something significantly changes I am likely to spoil my paper at the next election. It will be the first time I have done this.
TwistingMyMelon said:
Seems to be doing a good job tbh . He’s not a miracle worker and can only win the battles he comes up against
Seems to be playing a long game as well
Saw him interviewed and , waffled a bit then made some interesting points to me
I’m not sure id vote Lib Dem , but credit where credit is Due he seems to be doing a decent job
But he isn't scrutinised.Seems to be playing a long game as well
Saw him interviewed and , waffled a bit then made some interesting points to me
I’m not sure id vote Lib Dem , but credit where credit is Due he seems to be doing a decent job
The party isn't scrutinised
They hardly get a look in on BBC's Question Time now.
All he has to do is basically sweet FA and try and avoid banana skins
105.4 said:
Whilst trying to annul the largest democratic process this country has ever seen because they didn’t like the result?
The Liberal Democrats are neither liberal or democratic.
Ten years ago I’d have given consideration to voting for them.
After the last few years, and especially as they can’t acknowledge what a woman is, not a chance !
Mind you, neither Labour or Conservative would get my vote either, so like a great many others I consider myself, for the first time in my adult life, to be politically homeless.
Yes, I'm often tempted to paraphrase Voltaire's remark about the Holy Roman Empire. The Liberal Democrats are neither liberal or democratic.
Ten years ago I’d have given consideration to voting for them.
After the last few years, and especially as they can’t acknowledge what a woman is, not a chance !
Mind you, neither Labour or Conservative would get my vote either, so like a great many others I consider myself, for the first time in my adult life, to be politically homeless.
I also find myself rather politically homeless. While I'd far rather vote on ideology than political events, I want to vote for the party of low public spending, and there isn't one.
Carl_Manchester said:
The Lib Dems have not been very liberal since about 2015 when they disposed of Tim Farron and the slow self-destruction of Vince Cable once he entered office in 2010 was painful to watch. He used to be an intelligent man dontcha know.
.
IMHO a very good post..
Vince Cable was an incredible politician for me. He was a good communicator and in the run up to the 2010 election came acrossd extremely well in comparison to the other shadow whatevcers.
As you said painful to watch
Quite telling that this thread took 2 years to spill over into a second page. How many threads about Boris, Covid and Brexit have spilled over into multiple volumes in that time?
The Lib Dems don't have anything much to add IMO. Nearly everyone broadly agrees that we need a mix of private enterprise and social welfare. Better standards in public life, of course. Competence. Cooperation. Not really controversial as aspirations, but achieving them is not straight forward. Then there's the BBC favourites of climate change, trans stuff, empowered Muslim women and so forth. Yeah, they're pretty well covered too.
Even so, there might be room for a pragmatic, centrist party without the left/right dogma of the big two, if the Lib Dems weren't every bit as dogmatic about their own causes. I found it baffling that Tim Farron couldn't defend that most elementary liberal position of differentiating between his private beliefs about homosexuality and any wish to have the state impose these beliefs on others. It was like a golden opportunity to spell out what liberalism means, instead he was ditched for not being pro-gay. They went all Taleban over Brexit too, not merely broadly opposing it but saying in so many words that 17+ million voters were ignorant racists who should be ignored.
They ignored them in 2019, like they ignored wide open goal to put forward a pragmatic, centrist resolution to the EU question, between the bombast of Johnson and the bizarre antics of Corbyn. They ignored that the wah wah remain position was already well represented by the Anna Soubry Party, and the voters in turn ignored them.
There are real, imporrtant issues with liberty and democracy in this country. With important freedom, privacy and legal protections under attack, and with a democratic system which breeds complacency and arrogance. We badly need a party to talk about these things but the Lib Dems aren't it.
The Lib Dems don't have anything much to add IMO. Nearly everyone broadly agrees that we need a mix of private enterprise and social welfare. Better standards in public life, of course. Competence. Cooperation. Not really controversial as aspirations, but achieving them is not straight forward. Then there's the BBC favourites of climate change, trans stuff, empowered Muslim women and so forth. Yeah, they're pretty well covered too.
Even so, there might be room for a pragmatic, centrist party without the left/right dogma of the big two, if the Lib Dems weren't every bit as dogmatic about their own causes. I found it baffling that Tim Farron couldn't defend that most elementary liberal position of differentiating between his private beliefs about homosexuality and any wish to have the state impose these beliefs on others. It was like a golden opportunity to spell out what liberalism means, instead he was ditched for not being pro-gay. They went all Taleban over Brexit too, not merely broadly opposing it but saying in so many words that 17+ million voters were ignorant racists who should be ignored.
They ignored them in 2019, like they ignored wide open goal to put forward a pragmatic, centrist resolution to the EU question, between the bombast of Johnson and the bizarre antics of Corbyn. They ignored that the wah wah remain position was already well represented by the Anna Soubry Party, and the voters in turn ignored them.
There are real, imporrtant issues with liberty and democracy in this country. With important freedom, privacy and legal protections under attack, and with a democratic system which breeds complacency and arrogance. We badly need a party to talk about these things but the Lib Dems aren't it.
Whether you agree with union funding I think there's probably an argument that at least you know why it's there and where it came from isn't there?
One of the Conservatives biggest donors is the wife of one of Putin's former ministers.
Barry Gardiner had half a million donated by a kindly Chinese benefactor and didn't seem to think to ask why.
Political funding seems to get murky very quickly and personally I'd have them all wear bloody big badges on their suits like snooker players showing who's paying for them.
One of the Conservatives biggest donors is the wife of one of Putin's former ministers.
Barry Gardiner had half a million donated by a kindly Chinese benefactor and didn't seem to think to ask why.
Political funding seems to get murky very quickly and personally I'd have them all wear bloody big badges on their suits like snooker players showing who's paying for them.
Claiming the Lib Dems aren't liberal or democratic is pretty silly. Their stance after the Brexit vote was 100% democratic. At no point were they suggesting doing anything without getting a democratic mandate first. Given the referendum gave no indication of what kind of Brexit people wanted it was entirely reasonable to seek to get a confirmation from the public. And to say "if you elect us, we'll cancel Brexit" is also entirely democratically reasonable; had the public elected them, that would have been a clear mandate to reverse the referendum. And they obviously didn't say "Brexit voters are thick racists". What they did say was that the official Brexit campaign lied continuously and clearly sought to mislead rather than inform.
ATG said:
Claiming the Lib Dems aren't liberal or democratic is pretty silly. Their stance after the Brexit vote was 100% democratic. At no point were they suggesting doing anything without getting a democratic mandate first. Given the referendum gave no indication of what kind of Brexit people wanted it was entirely reasonable to seek to get a confirmation from the public. And to say "if you elect us, we'll cancel Brexit" is also entirely democratically reasonable; had the public elected them, that would have been a clear mandate to reverse the referendum. And they obviously didn't say "Brexit voters are thick racists". What they did say was that the official Brexit campaign lied continuously and clearly sought to mislead rather than inform.
Any PH'r supporting the Lib-Dums should realise by now that they are 'anti-car'. If you don't think so, look at Brighton. Or, look at Oxford. They have control of Oxford County Council - just look at the damage they have done already with their car hatred, LEZs (Low Emission Zones) everywhere, and, wait for it, the HIGHEST car parking charges outside of London. I live a dozen miles from Oxford and the numbers coming to our town because of our 'free' parking is very welcome. But the Lib-Dums are said to want to control our District Council too. They can p right off!As for your fairy tale about Brexit with the Lib-Dums and their 'inform' campaign. People and their short or selective memories eh?
And they used the same offensive to many slogan in the European elections. They are so simple they thought it 'funny'.
Bunch of infantile idiots who also spend a fortune when campaigning - I've voted since the late 60s and can even recall stopping and listening to Liberal Jeremy Thorpe on the campaign trail back then, but no party of any persuasion has ever bombarded me (any many others) with such a vast amount of unwanted crap through my letter box, and direct tel calls, trying (in vain) to make me/us vote for them.
They have NO chance of power. Ever.
Oh, nearly forgot. Their lovely Brexit slogan. Can't recall any other party ever resorting to such childish insulting language. Morons.
ATG said:
Claiming the Lib Dems aren't liberal or democratic is pretty silly. Their stance after the Brexit vote was 100% democratic. At no point were they suggesting doing anything without getting a democratic mandate first. Given the referendum gave no indication of what kind of Brexit people wanted it was entirely reasonable to seek to get a confirmation from the public. And to say "if you elect us, we'll cancel Brexit" is also entirely democratically reasonable; had the public elected them, that would have been a clear mandate to reverse the referendum. And they obviously didn't say "Brexit voters are thick racists". What they did say was that the official Brexit campaign lied continuously and clearly sought to mislead rather than inform.
Quite right.They didn't do everything right, but then again the current Tory government haven't been exactly impressive, including in the shambolic leaving of the EU.
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