Boris Johnson- Prime Minister (Vol. 5)

[Red 4]

Vanden Saab said:

Red 4 said:

I'm surprised nobody in government has come up with the idea of a return to workhouses TBH.

Make the kids work for their supper. They can make PPE for the NHS for now (we'll think what else they can make post pandemic if that time ever comes).
Government provide a roof over their heads. Keeps 'em fed and watered. Visiting rights for parents (for a minimal fee) once a week, etc etc.

This will teach them all about the work ethic and the country will be stronger as a result.
The downsides are minimal.
Who's up for it ? Turbobloke ? Tuna ? What say you ?

My father and his brother spent some time in a workhouse when they were children, they did not like it but it did them both the world of good. They worked hard were both successful and were able to provide their children with a good home and food on the table everyday. Great idea.

The problem is, there are laws against this kind of stuff now.

Modern slavery and all that blah. What do you think ? Should we take the Victorians as our role models and take a trip down memory lane a la JagLover with his history lesson on malnourishment in the scum class back then or should we adust the workhouse model ?
Even a bit ?

At least down the coal mines nodoby can hear the kids scream.

I welcome your suggestions.

[IforB]

This thread has properly jumped the shark.

Good night gentlemen, you are genuinely beyond help and I have to say, whilst I have enjoyed taking the pee, I now realise that we are actually dealing with people with genuine problems.

That takes a lot of the fun out of it for me, ripping it out of people who are just being silly is one thing. Mocking the afflicted is something very different.

Peace out y'all.

[Tuna]

markyb_lcy said:

I wouldn’t bother Stewie. Many of these lot have been brainwashed by the Tory narrative that nobody is poor or hungry apart from by choice.

No amount of reason, statistics, examples or otherwise will change their mind.

They’re happy as a pig in st rolling around in their own ignorance.

I suggest leaving them to it. Pig st really stinks.

At this point I think we should move on to another topic, at least until the inevitable U-Turn.

Perhaps if those arguing for Rashford's solution hadn't taken an absolutist position where anyone who didn't agree with it unquestioningly was labelled a denier of poverty and evil Tory ultra who wanted to starve kids, we wouldn't be having this ridiculous conversation now?

FFS - you and a number of others did absolutely everything you could think of to attack anyone who didn't agree with you, and you're surprised that they're now taking a harder stance? If you lie and bullst your way through what otherwise could be an interesting debate, what makes you think everyone else won't up their rhetoric in equal measures?

Go clutch your handbag and whinge that it's all the other guys' fault as usual.

[Red 4]

Genuine question, Tuna.

We can all contest the figures and stats to suit any agenda but do you have any personal experience of deprivation issues and/ or personal experience of any people in genuine need ?

[B'stard Child]

IforB said:

This thread has properly jumped the shark.

Good night gentlemen, you are genuinely beyond help and I have to say, whilst I have enjoyed taking the pee, I now realise that we are actually dealing with people with genuine problems.

That takes a lot of the fun out of it for me, ripping it out of people who are just being silly is one thing. Mocking the afflicted is something very different.

Peace out y'all.

0/10 for the flounce - even SIBI scored higher than that

[anonymous-user]

To be fair, the thread has gone past anything resembling useful.

I'll leave you all to it.

[Vanden Saab]

Red 4 said:

Vanden Saab said:

Red 4 said:

I'm surprised nobody in government has come up with the idea of a return to workhouses TBH.

Make the kids work for their supper. They can make PPE for the NHS for now (we'll think what else they can make post pandemic if that time ever comes).
Government provide a roof over their heads. Keeps 'em fed and watered. Visiting rights for parents (for a minimal fee) once a week, etc etc.

This will teach them all about the work ethic and the country will be stronger as a result.
The downsides are minimal.
Who's up for it ? Turbobloke ? Tuna ? What say you ?

My father and his brother spent some time in a workhouse when they were children, they did not like it but it did them both the world of good. They worked hard were both successful and were able to provide their children with a good home and food on the table everyday. Great idea.

The problem is, there are laws against this kind of stuff now.

Modern slavery and all that blah. What do you think ? Should we take the Victorians as our role models and take a trip down memory lane a la JagLover with his history lesson on malnourishment in the scum class back then or should we adust the workhouse model ?
Even a bit ?

At least down the coal mines nodoby can hear the kids scream.

I welcome your suggestions.

Where is your line then, once you have fed every child what is next. To coin a phrase what is your exit strategy? We provide child allowance specifically to make sure that children are fed and clothed but £21.05 for the first child and £13.95 for any others is not enough. Now everybody has to pay for these same children to eat at school and at home and you can guarantee that once some parents realise that they can get an extra ££££ in their pocket if they do not feed their kids they will do it...

[markyb_lcy]

stitched said:

stitched said:

markyb_lcy said:

bhstewie said:

stitched said:

Money.
Mouth.
Do you know what it is like to go hungry?
Genuine question.
Because I fking well do.
Have you had your single parent go without in order to supply PE kit that matched that of your peers and found out about it afterwards?
I have.
So crack on, let us all know how much you know from personal experience, let us all know how much you personally understand this subject.
Thought not.

No I don't.

It isn't something I've ever had to worry about thank god.

Personally I think it's a bit odd that you take objection to me picking JagLover up on his comments yet you seem fine with his suggestion that because Rashford isn't stunted through malnutrition he can't have gone too hungry "whatever his true history was".

I wouldn’t bother Stewie. Many of these lot have been brainwashed by the Tory narrative that nobody is poor or hungry apart from by choice.

No amount of reason, statistics, examples or otherwise will change their mind.

They’re happy as a pig in st rolling around in their own ignorance.

I suggest leaving them to it. Pig st really stinks.

At this point I think we should move on to another topic, at least until the inevitable U-Turn.

Edited by markyb_lcy on Tuesday 27th October 18:25

Funny,
Perhaps you could point out where my ignorance is.
Unlikely as you do not have a fking clue, or perhaps you would like to roll up and trounce my experience with your hard earned wisdom, perhaps you could call me out regards my life experience and prove me wrong.
Or you could just be a on the interweb with no fking idea.
I'll let you guess where I think you lie.

Having read that back I think the on the interweb was me in this instance.
Apologies
It's a subject which still kicks me off.

No worries man!

[Tuna]

Red 4 said:

Genuine question, Tuna.

We can all contest the figures and stats to suit any agenda but do you have any personal experience of deprivation issues and/ or personal experience of any people in genuine need ?

My partner works with disadvantaged and special needs kids.

My Mum ran the Family Court as a senior Magistrate.

My Dad, as a GP, has dealt with these issues at first hand.

Outside of direct poverty, I've worked for one of the large national charities in a technical role.

There are other life experiences - I'm old enough to have lost friends to cancer, suicide, to have seen them hospitalised through anorexia, illness and life changing accidents.

[roger.mellie]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

To be fair, the thread has gone past anything resembling useful.

I'll leave you all to it.

Agreed, lots of heat, very little light.

[Red 4]

Tuna said:

Red 4 said:

Genuine question, Tuna.

We can all contest the figures and stats to suit any agenda but do you have any personal experience of deprivation issues and/ or personal experience of any people in genuine need ?

My partner works with disadvantaged and special needs kids.

My Mum ran the Family Court as a senior Magistrate.

My Dad, as a GP, has dealt with these issues at first hand.

Outside of direct poverty, I've worked for one of the large national charities in a technical role.

There are other life experiences - I'm old enough to have lost friends to cancer, suicide, to have seen them hospitalised through anorexia, illness and life changing accidents.

OK. Thanks for the reply Tuna. It's appreciated.

Now, please don't take this the wrong way - this isn't meant as a criticism or as a way to start an argument about what you have or haven't experienced - but it does sound like you've had a good (upper middle class) upbringing and any tales you've heard have (probably) been relayed to you.
Having said that, there's a fair spread of experience there with the roles your family have undertaken and I'm sure you've heard some stories.

However, that doesn't equate to dealing with the issues first hand or experiencing them personally. It's always very different when YOU SEE how some people live and the struggles they face first hand.
Seeing is believing, as they say. It isn't all about figures on a spreadsheet or the spin politicians (of every party) put on things.

I worked some very rough areas. I'm not saying I know everything or that some people don't milk the system for everything it's worth but - deprivation is very real in this country and it is widespread. It's nothing new and this is the way of things but to dismiss the issue of child hunger, as many are doing on this thread (not you, necessarily) is wrong. It exists. I know because I've seen it.
I'm far from a raging lefty (as some have accused me of) I'm just a realist with first hand knowledge.

Forget the stats. They're just confusing. Take a drive around the suburbs of many cities and large towns and see how (some) people live. This isn't a lifestyle choice and, as far as I can tell, things are not getting better. In many areas they are getting worse.

I'm sorry to hear about the friends you've lost. I know what a complete tt cancer is. I've seen the cruel way that disease kills people and reduces them to nothing. I've also seen enough suicide victims to last me a lifetime and I've had friends and colleagues take their own lives.

I'm not saying you've been shielded completely from the harsher side of life but when you don't see the issues regularly, you could be forgiven for thinking lots of the issues don't exist.
They do. Trust me on that.

Once again - this isn't a criticism. We've just had different experiences and formed different views.

Edited by Red 4 on Tuesday 27th October 21:57

[768]

roger.mellie said:

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

To be fair, the thread has gone past anything resembling useful.

I'll leave you all to it.

Agreed, lots of heat, very little light.

There's a new video by Casey Neistat on YouTube today, just a short one, on who he's voting for in the US. Touches on some painful parallels here.

I won't link to it or this comment will get moved to the YouTube thread.

[IforB]

B'stard Child said:

IforB said:

This thread has properly jumped the shark.

Good night gentlemen, you are genuinely beyond help and I have to say, whilst I have enjoyed taking the pee, I now realise that we are actually dealing with people with genuine problems.

That takes a lot of the fun out of it for me, ripping it out of people who are just being silly is one thing. Mocking the afflicted is something very different.

Peace out y'all.

0/10 for the flounce - even SIBI scored higher than that

Oh there is no flounce, just an acknowledgement that the lunatics have taken over the asylum!

[Murph7355]

IforB said:

Oh there is no flounce, just an acknowledgement that the lunatics have taken over the asylum!

And yet you can't stay away - moth to the flame (I'd have thought you'd have left it at least a few pages for impact ).

This thread jumped the shark (++) when people started to suggest the government may be deliberately malnourishing kids and keeping them uneducated for nefarious means

See you back here tomorrow, same time, same place for more fun.

[B'stard Child]

IforB said:

B'stard Child said:

IforB said:

This thread has properly jumped the shark.

Good night gentlemen, you are genuinely beyond help and I have to say, whilst I have enjoyed taking the pee, I now realise that we are actually dealing with people with genuine problems.

That takes a lot of the fun out of it for me, ripping it out of people who are just being silly is one thing. Mocking the afflicted is something very different.

Peace out y'all.

0/10 for the flounce - even SIBI scored higher than that

Oh there is no flounce, just an acknowledgement that the lunatics have taken over the asylum!

IYO - others think differently - something you struggle with

[Tuna]

Red 4 said:

OK. Thanks for the reply Tuna. It's appreciated.

Your response is taken in kind - thank you. I'm pretty uncomfortable sharing that sort of personal detail - I have nothing to 'brag' about in this discussion, am very aware that by any standards I have a fairly privileged life and do not wish to take away from the experiences of others.

I wouldn't want you to come away from any of my comments thinking I'm denying that poverty and privation exists in the UK.

The point of difference here is what we do to understand the issue and from that how we address the problems we identify. It's not enough to just state "there's an issue, we must act" - because that's just a recipe for waste and chaos, and doesn't ensure those most in need are properly supported. It is genuinely difficult to help people out of poverty, and keep them out

Worse still, it's pretty clear that some have politicised the issue and are willing to actively distort the information we receive for reasons that are nothing to do with helping children in poverty. That applies to both sides. It doesn't matter how lofty their goals are, if they're making stuff up to force a specific solution because it suits their politics - they are making things worse.

[IforB]

B'stard Child said:

IforB said:

B'stard Child said:

IforB said:

This thread has properly jumped the shark.

Good night gentlemen, you are genuinely beyond help and I have to say, whilst I have enjoyed taking the pee, I now realise that we are actually dealing with people with genuine problems.

That takes a lot of the fun out of it for me, ripping it out of people who are just being silly is one thing. Mocking the afflicted is something very different.

Peace out y'all.

0/10 for the flounce - even SIBI scored higher than that

Oh there is no flounce, just an acknowledgement that the lunatics have taken over the asylum!

IYO - others think differently - something you struggle with

Oh there is a big difference between "thinking differently" and not being able to exhibit basic human emotions.

That's where this thread has got to. There is no debate to be had. It is just people spouting abhorrent things and supporting a Government doing abhorrent things and then crying when others point it out.

That's not discussion. That's just people using the forum as a place to spout bile and explore the depths of their personality defects.

It is fascinating and horrifying at the same time.

[B'stard Child]

You are a very weird chap!!!!!

[768]

IforB said:

That's where this thread has got to. There is no debate to be had. It is just people spouting abhorrent things and supporting a Government doing abhorrent things ...

What abhorrent things have the government done?

Perhaps you should speak to Gina Miller and see if you can take the government on together.

[bitchstewie]

markyb_lcy said:

I wouldn’t bother Stewie. Many of these lot have been brainwashed by the Tory narrative that nobody is poor or hungry apart from by choice.

No amount of reason, statistics, examples or otherwise will change their mind.

They’re happy as a pig in st rolling around in their own ignorance.

I suggest leaving them to it. Pig st really stinks.

At this point I think we should move on to another topic, at least until the inevitable U-Turn.

Quite.

If people want to see the difference this is making to some people I'd simply suggest spend a few minutes looking at Rashford's Twitter feed.

There are plenty of examples and it certainly makes you think about the things you take for granted.