CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 5)

[richardxjr]

Saweep said:

vixen1700 said:

croyde said:

Met an old mate in London a few days ago. Hadn't seen eachother for over a year and thought we'd visit a few pubs in the Richmond upon Thames area.

It was fekin depressing, no atmosphere, mask to get to table 2 metres away, mask to go to toilet.

Every pub was the same, mainly empty and sad.

I was glad to get home.

Does anybody have any positive pub tales since the latest nonsense rules came in?

I went for dinner last night in London at a relatively famous restaurant. Didn't wear a mask to walk in, like most other people. Track and trace thing wasn't offered, no collection of our details.

All very normal.

Sadly it was still half empty.

No T&T?

Did you have to step over a pile of dead grannies bodies?

Good on them though, hopefully word will spread and they will fill up with punters.

[anonymous-user]

PeteinSQ said:

I heard him on the radio. They can be fined something like £10k every three hours that they stay open after a couple of days. Doesn't sound very sustainable.

I felt sorry for him as he sounded close to tears and I'm sure he's representative of a lot of business owners that are being destroyed by this situation.

Let's close gyms says the Gov, o.k

So why not open outdoor gyms, it just seems like they are forcing an agenda yet offering no alternatives. Cases have been low in pubs because they have made massive changes yet still closed.

How can you do anything to stay open. It really is pure and simple ego combined with totalitarianism.

[Graveworm]

superlightr said:

I understand what you are saying and agree with being honest. but you have to be a fool to self incriminate. Having been a solicitor and wife was as well may well have coloured our views.

Edited by superlightr on Thursday 15th October 14:48

Yet I was allowed to go on my way after a friendly, civil polite chat.

[iphonedyou]

Not-The-Messiah said:

They don't give a st, they don't give a st about most things they virtue signal about. It's purely a selfish endeavour much of the time.

Covid is a grate example many of the key scientists are in the older age range and because of this it's guided their judgement more than facts and reality.
The mask wearing and rules stuff they are only bothered not because they want to save granny but because they think if everyone else does as they are told it will protect them.

You don't really believe this, do you? Some of these people have given, in effect, their lives to progressing scientific understanding - often at huge cost to their personal lives - but you think that they're now subverting government direction with a view to keeping themselves safe, at the expense of the very people who've benefited from that lifetime of work to date?

If we accept that mask wearing assists, then have you any evidence to substantiate your claim that the key scientists don't wish to save granny, and instead are out for themselves alone?

Edited by iphonedyou on Thursday 15th October 15:03

[Uncle John]

I can see all this nonsense ending in civil unrest, particularly when furlough ends, winter begins & the music stops.

[superlightr]

Graveworm said:

superlightr said:

I understand what you are saying and agree with being honest. but you have to be a fool to self incriminate. Having been a solicitor and wife was as well may well have coloured our views.

Edited by superlightr on Thursday 15th October 14:48

Yet I was allowed to go on my way after a friendly, civil polite chat.

and that gym owner... what happens to him?

what happens to other business owners that try and earn a living and don't close their doors when they govt wants them to?

[Not-The-Messiah]

Saweep said:

I went for dinner last night in London at a relatively famous restaurant. Didn't wear a mask to walk in, like most other people. Track and trace thing wasn't offered, no collection of our details.

All very normal.

Sadly it was still half empty.

I assume the track and trace was sorted out when you booked, or did you just walk in off the street?

[superlightr]

Graveworm said:

That's exactly what I am saying yes, it's only a personal viewpoint. We clearly differ on what it means to be honest.

I exceed the speed limit pretty much every time I drive, it's illegal. If I am stopped by the police (As happened once) and they ask me do I know what the speed limit is I will tell them, if they ask what speed, I was going I will tell them, if they ask why I was speeding I will tell them. I don't agree with enforcing speed limits, I will deal with the consequences, if any come, but I don't agree that allows me to to lie.

I understand what you are saying and agree with being honest. but you have to be a fool to self incriminate. Having been a solicitor and wife was as well may well have coloured our views.

I see it as a duty of each of us to civil disobedience however small or large and even violent disobedience when there is such abuse of power and manifestly unjust restrictions and law.

you need to stand up for what you think is right and wrong. I believe the governments actions to be so wrong and so unjust on such many levels that's its now a crime against our Human rights.

Am i doing civil disobedience? you bet... Am I violent ? not yet but I have my lines.

Edited by superlightr on Thursday 15th October 15:07

[monkfish1]

superlightr said:

Graveworm said:

superlightr said:

I understand what you are saying and agree with being honest. but you have to be a fool to self incriminate. Having been a solicitor and wife was as well may well have coloured our views.

Edited by superlightr on Thursday 15th October 14:48

Yet I was allowed to go on my way after a friendly, civil polite chat.

and that gym owner... what happens to him?

what happens to other business owners that try and earn a living and don't close their doors when they govt wants them to?

No one cares. So long as granny is saved, its fine.

[Saweep]

Not-The-Messiah said:

Saweep said:

I went for dinner last night in London at a relatively famous restaurant. Didn't wear a mask to walk in, like most other people. Track and trace thing wasn't offered, no collection of our details.

All very normal.

Sadly it was still half empty.

I assume the track and trace was sorted out when you booked, or did you just walk in off the street?

Well my sister booked it online.

There were 5 of us from 3 different households. They definitely don't have my details. And made 0 effort to get them.

That's all I know.

[Red Devil]

superlightr said:

Salmonofdoubt said:

Which is bullst.

Similarly I can travel to the pub with my work colleagues but will be told to not sit with them if the pub staff members know we don't live together.

There's absolutely no consistency or logic to the overwhelming majority of restrictions being imposed on us. Yet still the lockdown cheerleaders start to shout louder.

I'm presuming that everyone in favour of lockdown is financially secure, prefers working from home or would be in line for more furghlough handouts. Meanwhile us thick fkers who got to work while everyone else was making bread and wking over zoom can just carry on working and having our lives banned.

exactly which leads me onto where does the money the govt get come from? Ie taxes.

It does not come from public paid workers ie civil service or NHS etc -its generated from private businesses and companies which is then paid to the Govt who then pay it out in wages/spend it/spunk it up the wall as they see fit.

So if your wages are not affected as you are paid by the Govt or Council or NHS trust etc then its easy to call for more lockdown. The actual initial "money" tax comes from private business and companies which the govt are killing. Its madness. At some stage - the cost to service this debt will be crippling.

Taxes don't even scratch the surface. The money that the government is currently spunking up the wall comes from borrowing.
At some point it is going to have to be repaid. We've been in worse shape in the past though.
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/334/uk-economy/...

A big part of the current problem we face is the manipulation/obfuscation of data. For example the instruction given to doctors regarding MCCD.
Under such circumstances it is extremely difficult to trust government figures. As someone once said: " There are three degrees of untruth, a fib, a lie, and statistics."

[richardxjr]

Saweep said:

Well my sister booked it online.

There were 5 of us from 3 different households. They definitely don't have my details. And made 0 effort to get them.

That's all I know.

Yeah the good places just take the number of the table booker over the phone. No further interference or data collection.

[gareth_r]

Elysium said:

In the summer, I argued that SARS-CoV-2 seemed to be just about 'done' in the UK. Michael Levitt also made a prediction that the USA would 'saturate' in August and that excess deaths would return to normal.

It might be controversial to say this, but I am not sure that anything we are seeing now disproves that.

We are not currently experiencing statistically significant levels of excess death, despite the very obvious impacts of lockdown and the slowdown in NHS treatment, which we know is damaging the health of millions of people:

https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/static-reports/morta...

Using cases as a metric is flawed. We are recording people as cases when they have a positive PCR test, but no symptoms. It does not appear that a consistent PCR cycle threshold is being used or that we have routine retesting to rule out false positives.

Hospitalisations and deaths are both affected by the PCR test issues, because anyone who dies within 28 days of a positive test is automatically a COVID death and anyone testing positive 14 days before going into hospital or whilst in hospital is a COVID admission. These definitions will ensure that COVID is never understated as a threat.

Our recent 'second wave', which I think is no more than a ripple began with more cases after August bank holiday weekend. We know from experience that this is typical for any respiratory virus, that a four fold increase is common and that an eight to ten fold increase is likely in an epidemic year.

We do see a rise in associated deaths 2 weeks later, which reinforces the timescales previously assumed - 5 days from infections to symptoms and 2 weeks from symptoms to death for the unlucky few.

If we use 15th Sept as a baseline then the total number of people who have died in this second wave is 1,309. We had 1,073 deaths in a single day at the 8th April peak.

SAGE are arguing that the increase in incidence we are seeing now could suddenly, exponentially surge. I think that is unlikely, but only time will tell. In the meantime, the events of the last month are a small blip in the context of this epidemic.

In the meantime, we know that the excess deaths that are occuring are happening in the home and that, at this moment in time, COVID is not a particularly significant cause of death in the UK:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...

Do we know how admissions for respiratory infections in general compare with previous years?

[Gecko1978]

Saweep said:

vixen1700 said:

croyde said:

Met an old mate in London a few days ago. Hadn't seen eachother for over a year and thought we'd visit a few pubs in the Richmond upon Thames area.

It was fekin depressing, no atmosphere, mask to get to table 2 metres away, mask to go to toilet.

Every pub was the same, mainly empty and sad.

I was glad to get home.

Does anybody have any positive pub tales since the latest nonsense rules came in?

I went for dinner last night in London at a relatively famous restaurant. Didn't wear a mask to walk in, like most other people. Track and trace thing wasn't offered, no collection of our details.

All very normal.

Sadly it was still half empty.

Couple of weeks ago went out with our infomal cycling group stopped at a pub for a long lunch wore masks to the table or too the loo otherwise 6 of us had a lovely meal and a good chat an fair bit to drink.

[vixen1700]

Saweep said:

Well my sister booked it online.

There were 5 of us from 3 different households. They definitely don't have my details. And made 0 effort to get them.

That's all I know.

That is quite odd if you didn't at least put your contact details on their register. Thought that was a legal requirement now.
Don't use the app myself, just scrawl my name and contact number on a bit of paper.

Edited to add, do they just need the booker's details then?

Edited by vixen1700 on Thursday 15th October 15:13

[Elysium]

Graveworm said:

Elysium said:

It is the Govt who are dishonest. These rules, which destroy lives, livelihoods and freedoms are dishonest.

The honest, true, right and moral thing to do is resist them. To do what is best for us and our loved ones.

Johnson, Hancock, Whitty and Vallance have lied to us repeatedly. They have acted as if they are all powerful kings. As if democracy was nothing.

I do not believe the various Coronavirus Regulations have been lawfully created and I am happy, willing and proud to break them.

Great be proud to break them, lying in order to get away with doing it is dishonest.
"He lied first so I can lie" Cheapens your argument to the playground level.

I am proud about lying if it does what is best for my family in the face of these unjust and foolhardy regulations.

I imagine the people who sheltered Anne Frank were also pround about lying when the authorities asked them if they had seen any Jews.

There is nothing cheap about my argument.

[Not-The-Messiah]

iphonedyou said:

Not-The-Messiah said:

They don't give a st, they don't give a st about most things they virtue signal about. It's purely a selfish endeavour much of the time.

Covid is a grate example many of the key scientists are in the older age range and because of this it's guided their judgement more than facts and reality.
The mask wearing and rules stuff they are only bothered not because they want to save granny but because they think if everyone else does as they are told it will protect them.

You don't really believe this, do you? Some of these people have given, in effect, their lives to progressing scientific understanding - often at huge cost to their personal lives - but you think that they're now subverting government direction with a view to keeping themselves safe, at the expense of the very people who've benefited from that lifetime of work to date?

Edited by iphonedyou on Thursday 15th October 15:00

Yes I do, obviously not everyone but the ones at the top and in charge will be more likely to be driven by a level of personal achievement and ego. You don't get to the top by putting others first.

Do you honestly think that they are driven by philanthropic selflessness? If so you are a very naive individual who lives in a dream world. I do wonder why these top jobs are well paid when according to you they would do it for free or next to nothing if given the chance.

[Twinfan]

vixen1700 said:

That is quite odd if you didn't at least put your contact details on their register. Thought that was a legal requirement now.
Don't use the app myself, just scrawl my name and contact number on a bit of paper.

Edited to add, do they just need the booker's details then?

They need one contact per group, not all individual details.

[OddCat]

ORD said:

OddCat said:

Stuff about GDP

Do some research. You have missed that economic activity generates wealth. It is a fairly basic point.

For whom ?

Joe public is relatively worse off in real terms that he was 20 years ago. But a lot of people are better off now, and saving large amounts, with there being less economic activity. Go figure. Really, go figure.

[Saweep]

vixen1700 said:

Saweep said:

Well my sister booked it online.

There were 5 of us from 3 different households. They definitely don't have my details. And made 0 effort to get them.

That's all I know.

That is quite odd if you didn't at least put your contact details on their register. Thought that was a legal requirement now.
Don't use the app myself, just scrawl my name and contact number on a bit of paper.

Edited to add, do they just need the booker's details then?

Edited by vixen1700 on Thursday 15th October 15:13

No idea mate.

My Mrs says I'm obsessed with Covid (from the perspective of thinking we have gone insane, obv) yet I've begun to lose track of what exactly the law is.