CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 5)
Discussion
ruggedscotty said:
Its being widely reported that they are going to start vaccinations of the NHS before christmas...
Two doses 28 days apart. and it by all accounts works, and its the oxford team that have done the work... We may be at the end of the tunnel with this soon enough.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8875931/C...
Politicians and their advisers first, please - all of them.Two doses 28 days apart. and it by all accounts works, and its the oxford team that have done the work... We may be at the end of the tunnel with this soon enough.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8875931/C...
ruggedscotty said:
Its being widely reported that they are going to start vaccinations of the NHS before christmas...
Two doses 28 days apart. and it by all accounts works, and its the oxford team that have done the work... We may be at the end of the tunnel with this soon enough.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8875931/C...
The head of the Vaccination Taskforce was on R4 this morning saying that was inaccurate. There was a 'slim' chance of a vaccine before Christmas she said, just as she'd said before, nothing new. Two doses 28 days apart. and it by all accounts works, and its the oxford team that have done the work... We may be at the end of the tunnel with this soon enough.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8875931/C...
Elysium said:
isaldiri said:
Elysium said:
You have ignored the central reason why the findings might differ from other serology studies. Explain the possible mechanisms for this ‘quirk’ please as you seem very confident it exists.
Do enlighten me about this 'central reason' you are so confident about that makes this one study accurate but every other antibody study wrong.....?I posted earlier this morning about the core difference, which is interesting and should be investigated further.
What I am shocked about is your dismissal of something that does not fit the existing data and your attempt to reason it away as a ‘quirk’. That is about as unscientific as it is possible to get.
The data that does not fit is gold dust. It is where we find insight:
Well, as someone who spends a lot of time data mining, outliers are considered exactly that usually for a good reason. And in this case study design and execution has a very large impact on results and there isn't yet obvious good reason for it. Mindlessly chasing outliers in the blind hope that one result which fits your personal prior belief tends to be a blind alley.
JagLover said:
It is not just me who suggested it. It was a claim by a Japanese professor.
As to why, well different places do have different past exposures to infectious diseases and the world was far less interconnected in the past.
Well a lot of professors tend to suggest a lot of things as well these days. As to why, well different places do have different past exposures to infectious diseases and the world was far less interconnected in the past.
But ok to explain why I think that particular theory is probably unlikely
The world has been very well connected for at least 20 years, probably more like 30. If your mystery coronavirus was present, it would I assume have to be present before that not to have spread widely but yet somehow have affected both China (which was very much closed until maybe mid 90s) and the rest of the far east fairly equally but nowhere else globally despite widespread Japanese tourists to Europe/US from the 80s onwards.
And it would have had to have done so without causing sufficient mortality/illness in the population such that no one had noticed it even in Japan, a very advanced first world economy by the 80s/90s.
If someone finds a mystery 8th coronavirus affecting humans that has mainly shown up in the far east but nowhere else I'd of course be prepared to change my mind.
Planting the seed of another firebreak/circuit-break/lockdown (delete where applicable) in Wales.
Suggesting another one in the New Year and that the Welsh gov are waiting for a vaccine
www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/second-fire-...
As far as I'm aware it's likely a vaccine won't be found right?
Also frustrating that people are getting so caught up on the intricacies of this new lockdown and not seeing the bigger picture. The majority of the questions I hear being asked, between friends, in public, and on the news appear to be silly things like "well can I buy a can opener?" or "my auntie Doris lives alone can we exercise together if we're 2m apart?"
I rarely hear actual questions on the effectiveness of these policies, the legalities surrounding them, and what the end game is. Is it a case of people don't care, or they trust the government blindly (despite normally slating every decision made), or don't think big picture, or because its never questioned on the news thanks to the questionable of ofcom rules?
It's only in the last week or so I'm beginning to see or hear any lockdown skepticism anywhere but here.
Apologies rant over
Suggesting another one in the New Year and that the Welsh gov are waiting for a vaccine
www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/second-fire-...
As far as I'm aware it's likely a vaccine won't be found right?
Also frustrating that people are getting so caught up on the intricacies of this new lockdown and not seeing the bigger picture. The majority of the questions I hear being asked, between friends, in public, and on the news appear to be silly things like "well can I buy a can opener?" or "my auntie Doris lives alone can we exercise together if we're 2m apart?"
I rarely hear actual questions on the effectiveness of these policies, the legalities surrounding them, and what the end game is. Is it a case of people don't care, or they trust the government blindly (despite normally slating every decision made), or don't think big picture, or because its never questioned on the news thanks to the questionable of ofcom rules?
It's only in the last week or so I'm beginning to see or hear any lockdown skepticism anywhere but here.
Apologies rant over
johnboy1975 said:
https://twitter.com/AlistairHaimes/status/13201170...
This retreat seems to explain why the mask study hasn't been published. Possibility of masks nebulising virus droplets into smaller, more dangerous particles.
Absolute carnage if this gets out. And twitter will do its thing and ensure that it does. Hopefully.
Similar to what this guy has been saying:This retreat seems to explain why the mask study hasn't been published. Possibility of masks nebulising virus droplets into smaller, more dangerous particles.
Absolute carnage if this gets out. And twitter will do its thing and ensure that it does. Hopefully.
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=240484
Virus-containing droplets collect on the mask. The water evaporates but the virus particles don't disappear. Subsequently some of the virus particles are either inhaled by the wearer or blown off the mask during exhalation, creating a 'miasma' of virus particles round the wearer.
FlabbyMidgets said:
Planting the seed of another firebreak/circuit-break/lockdown (delete where applicable) in Wales.
Suggesting another one in the New Year and that the Welsh gov are waiting for a vaccine.
As far as I'm aware it's likely a vaccine won't be found right?
Maybes aye, maybes naw. No vaccine for the commom cold. A flu vaccine but flu outbreaks every winter. Why will it be any different for a new virus? We may get a vaccine giving partial protection or reducing symptoms.Suggesting another one in the New Year and that the Welsh gov are waiting for a vaccine.
As far as I'm aware it's likely a vaccine won't be found right?
The best hope for a vaccine is that it gives govts an excuse to reverse course without admitting they were wrong.
isaldiri said:
Well a lot of professors tend to suggest a lot of things as well these days.
But ok to explain why I think that particular theory is probably unlikely
The world has been very well connected for at least 20 years, probably more like 30. If your mystery coronavirus was present, it would I assume have to be present before that not to have spread widely but yet somehow have affected both China (which was very much closed until maybe mid 90s) and the rest of the far east fairly equally but nowhere else globally despite widespread Japanese tourists to Europe/US from the 80s onwards.
And it would have had to have done so without causing sufficient mortality/illness in the population such that no one had noticed it even in Japan, a very advanced first world economy by the 80s/90s.
If someone finds a mystery 8th coronavirus affecting humans that has mainly shown up in the far east but nowhere else I'd of course be prepared to change my mind.
Yes, it seems unlikely they've been exposed to a virus which never made it to the rest of the world. However there must be some reason why they have a much lower fatality rate than other places. The virus seems to have spread fairly widely, certainly in the Tokyo area, yet they've only had 1700 deaths out of a population of 126 million.But ok to explain why I think that particular theory is probably unlikely
The world has been very well connected for at least 20 years, probably more like 30. If your mystery coronavirus was present, it would I assume have to be present before that not to have spread widely but yet somehow have affected both China (which was very much closed until maybe mid 90s) and the rest of the far east fairly equally but nowhere else globally despite widespread Japanese tourists to Europe/US from the 80s onwards.
And it would have had to have done so without causing sufficient mortality/illness in the population such that no one had noticed it even in Japan, a very advanced first world economy by the 80s/90s.
If someone finds a mystery 8th coronavirus affecting humans that has mainly shown up in the far east but nowhere else I'd of course be prepared to change my mind.
While googling for info about Japan, I came across this article:
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3221
My jaw hit the floor when I read this paragraph:
"Failings in the government’s early handling of the crisis have exacerbated the pandemic’s overall effect and resulted in 8.22 covid-19 deaths per million people: the third highest rate in the Western Pacific region after Philippines and Australia."
A population fatality rate of 8.22ppm. Compare that with around 700ppm for the UK so far, and they reckon that's a bad result. WTF?
irc said:
The best hope for a vaccine is that it gives govts an excuse to reverse course without admitting they were wrong.
Yup pretty much this, doesn't matter whether it works. The only issue is how given the banging on about cases for months, the halfwits in government can suddenly say due to the magic vaccine they don't matter any longer as a sterilising immunity vaccine pretty much seems to definitely not be on the cards (and in fact it never was even looked at in vaccine design afaik)....
Elysium said:
This is devastating.
How Matt Hancock holds us all in contempt:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8875213...
Good to see people who can actually have some influence speaking up.How Matt Hancock holds us all in contempt:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8875213...
Dr Ellie Cannon said:
And he will be remembered for the callous way he preened and made hollow statements, claiming nothing he was doing could possibly be wrong while ignoring the true health crisis this country is now facing – one which is the fault of the Government itself.
I don’t think I have ever read anything quite so damning. Hancock is a dead man walking. ruggedscotty said:
Its being widely reported that they are going to start vaccinations of the NHS before christmas...
Two doses 28 days apart. and it by all accounts works, and its the oxford team that have done the work... We may be at the end of the tunnel with this soon enough.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8875931/C...
At least one NHS staff member will not be having it. Me.Two doses 28 days apart. and it by all accounts works, and its the oxford team that have done the work... We may be at the end of the tunnel with this soon enough.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8875931/C...
ruggedscotty said:
Its being widely reported that they are going to start vaccinations of the NHS before christmas...
Two doses 28 days apart. and it by all accounts works, and its the oxford team that have done the work... We may be at the end of the tunnel with this soon enough.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8875931/C...
The Oxford trial is still blinded, so no-one knows yet the efficacy of the vaccine until it is unblinded. Two doses 28 days apart. and it by all accounts works, and its the oxford team that have done the work... We may be at the end of the tunnel with this soon enough.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8875931/C...
Elysium said:
This is devastating.
How Matt Hancock holds us all in contempt:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8875213...
It isn't devastating, it's normal. Are you suggesting that ministers should answer every letter they get personally?How Matt Hancock holds us all in contempt:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8875213...
Dr Ellie Cannon said:
And he will be remembered for the callous way he preened and made hollow statements, claiming nothing he was doing could possibly be wrong while ignoring the true health crisis this country is now facing – one which is the fault of the Government itself.
I don’t think I have ever read anything quite so damning. Hancock is a dead man walking. This and the other Wail link about a vaccine by Christmas are both typical of the reasons I rarely open the links. I'm surprised anyone takes them seriously.
SS2. said:
ruggedscotty said:
Its being widely reported that they are going to start vaccinations of the NHS before christmas...
Two doses 28 days apart. and it by all accounts works, and its the oxford team that have done the work... We may be at the end of the tunnel with this soon enough.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8875931/C...
Politicians and their advisers first, please - all of them.Two doses 28 days apart. and it by all accounts works, and its the oxford team that have done the work... We may be at the end of the tunnel with this soon enough.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8875931/C...
I wouldn't want to take it either.
Unless, as I said, all the Politicians have it taken too, from randomised injections rather than X needle for X perosn.
isaldiri said:
Elysium said:
isaldiri said:
Elysium said:
You have ignored the central reason why the findings might differ from other serology studies. Explain the possible mechanisms for this ‘quirk’ please as you seem very confident it exists.
Do enlighten me about this 'central reason' you are so confident about that makes this one study accurate but every other antibody study wrong.....?I posted earlier this morning about the core difference, which is interesting and should be investigated further.
What I am shocked about is your dismissal of something that does not fit the existing data and your attempt to reason it away as a ‘quirk’. That is about as unscientific as it is possible to get.
The data that does not fit is gold dust. It is where we find insight:
Well, as someone who spends a lot of time data mining, outliers are considered exactly that usually for a good reason. And in this case study design and execution has a very large impact on results and there isn't yet obvious good reason for it. Mindlessly chasing outliers in the blind hope that one result which fits your personal prior belief tends to be a blind alley.
You never explained your ‘quirk’. Probably because you rejected the study due to confirmation bias and subconsciously decided that there must be some odd reason why it differed that could not be relevant.
It’s no big deal, most people do it, but you have made a point of accusing others of rejecting evidence that does not fit their preconception. So it’s interesting to see you do it so blatantly.
I know you are going to dig down and defend it. You always do. So I’m going to make a decision not to be drawn in this time.
the-photographer said:
MikeT66 said:
Hold on - that makes no sense. Aren't we supposed to be going through all this s
t to protect the elderly/at risk groups... but the government have done their own 'sentencing to death' policy on those exact groups? 
Old news, those DNR orders were signed in March/April.t to protect the elderly/at risk groups... but the government have done their own 'sentencing to death' policy on those exact groups? The press are having another go at the story.
Revealed - how many untested and positive Covid-19 patients sent to care homes from city hospitals
A fierce debate is raging about whether infection was unwittingly taken into care homes in the first weeks of the pandemic - for the first time we can tell you the numbers involved.
BIRMINGHAM MAIL 7 JULY 2020 >>> https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-new...
Revealed - 16 care homes given £1,000 to take Covid-positive hospital patients
In the race to empty hospitals to prepare for a surge in coronavirus patients, and throughout the pandemic, hundreds of older people were sent to care homes, some with the infection.
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