CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 5)
Discussion
Sticks. said:
Elysium said:
This is devastating.
How Matt Hancock holds us all in contempt:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8875213...
It isn't devastating, it's normal. Are you suggesting that ministers should answer every letter they get personally?How Matt Hancock holds us all in contempt:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-8875213...
Dr Ellie Cannon said:
And he will be remembered for the callous way he preened and made hollow statements, claiming nothing he was doing could possibly be wrong while ignoring the true health crisis this country is now facing – one which is the fault of the Government itself.
I don’t think I have ever read anything quite so damning. Hancock is a dead man walking. This and the other Wail link about a vaccine by Christmas are both typical of the reasons I rarely open the links. I'm surprised anyone takes them seriously.
Your ‘nothing to see here’ approach is baffling.
I honestly feel like someone watching people slowly wake up from some sort of mass psychosis. It’s as if everyone has been under mind control and they are slowly coming round but still unaware of what has happened.
I would not believe it was possible if I was not living through it.
Elysium said:
The bottom line is that this study may have found something interesting that is worth investigating.
You never explained your ‘quirk’. Probably because you rejected the study due to confirmation bias and subconsciously decided that there must be some odd reason why it differed that could not be relevant.
It’s no big deal, most people do it, but you have made a point of accusing others of rejecting evidence that does not fit their preconception. So it’s interesting to see you do it so blatantly.
I know you are going to dig down and defend it. You always do. So I’m going to make a decision not to be drawn in this time.
Hilarious, you accusing someone else of digging down to defend something is quite remarkable.You never explained your ‘quirk’. Probably because you rejected the study due to confirmation bias and subconsciously decided that there must be some odd reason why it differed that could not be relevant.
It’s no big deal, most people do it, but you have made a point of accusing others of rejecting evidence that does not fit their preconception. So it’s interesting to see you do it so blatantly.
I know you are going to dig down and defend it. You always do. So I’m going to make a decision not to be drawn in this time.
And I repeat, all I am saying it is an outlier compared with all the other surveys done in Japan (which have suggested 0.1-0.5% ish levels of prevalence) with no obviously good reason (plus they had been using rapid point of care tests not elisa lab assays so your pet topic of false positives is definitely present) and therefore is less likely and potentially much less likely to be suitable to be taken at face value ie extrapolating to the rest of Tokyo region/Japan for general prevalence as you have done. I don't particularly see any controversial or contradictory about that to what I have noted about people only wanting to see what they want to see which is something you in particular specialise in.
Twinfan said:
Just listened to this on my walk this morning .. It should be compulsory for everyone 
The Spruce Goose said:
Turfy said:
it was 1 billion. The Gov are currently being sued for it. Add it to the list of absolutely abhorrent things they have done.Operation Moonshot is around the corner; this is the £50bn play that all and sundry have been manoeuvring to get a piece of. Once the “pieces” are all in place there off...
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3585
I just hope the don't use the SB Biosensor Antigen Kit as this is the same test kit Roche use, (just white-labelled) and the Limit of Detection is awful and the WHO/all in the know, know it
On the IFU one is c.1900 and one is c.300! Hmmmmmm....
Edited by Turfy on Sunday 25th October 12:46
Elysium said:
I think it’s reasonable to expect the person who is ultimately in charge of the NHS to take feedback from frontline staff seriously, particularly in this incredibly difficult situation.
Your ‘nothing to see here’ approach is baffling.
I honestly feel like someone watching people slowly wake up from some sort of mass psychosis. It’s as if everyone has been under mind control and they are slowly coming round but still unaware of what has happened.
I would not believe it was possible if I was not living through it.
Get real, you think he has time to sit and read letters from a GP? Not busy, no, nothing else to do. Your ‘nothing to see here’ approach is baffling.
I honestly feel like someone watching people slowly wake up from some sort of mass psychosis. It’s as if everyone has been under mind control and they are slowly coming round but still unaware of what has happened.
I would not believe it was possible if I was not living through it.
Baffling? Mind psychosis? Given how you've been sucked in by the DM cranking your chain, that's ironic. They know, as I do, how ministerial correspondence is handled, but won't let that get in the way of a good story.
isaldiri said:
irc said:
The best hope for a vaccine is that it gives govts an excuse to reverse course without admitting they were wrong.
Yup pretty much this, doesn't matter whether it works. The only issue is how given the banging on about cases for months, the halfwits in government can suddenly say due to the magic vaccine they don't matter any longer as a sterilising immunity vaccine pretty much seems to definitely not be on the cards (and in fact it never was even looked at in vaccine design afaik)....
Pocty
sl0wlane said:
Here we go. Boris claiming the “measures are working to reduce the R”:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/clear-s...
Just one article, in many today.
Hopefully this is the “get out” path (claiming that measure worked and we beat the virus) and we can all go along with this charade and be done with this sooner rather than later.
I would actually go along with it too, just to end the madness... but no doubt it will whipped up to a fear frenzy before too long.
Wishful thinking I know.
Me too. https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/clear-s...
Just one article, in many today.
Hopefully this is the “get out” path (claiming that measure worked and we beat the virus) and we can all go along with this charade and be done with this sooner rather than later.
I would actually go along with it too, just to end the madness... but no doubt it will whipped up to a fear frenzy before too long.
Wishful thinking I know.
They can put a statue up of Bojo in Trafalgar square with "This man single handedly beat Covid" if it means we can go back to normal sooner!
V1nce Fox said:
SS2. said:
Colonel Cupcake said:
At least one NHS staff member will not be having it. Me.
I doubt you'll be alone.isaldiri said:
Elysium said:
The bottom line is that this study may have found something interesting that is worth investigating.
You never explained your ‘quirk’. Probably because you rejected the study due to confirmation bias and subconsciously decided that there must be some odd reason why it differed that could not be relevant.
It’s no big deal, most people do it, but you have made a point of accusing others of rejecting evidence that does not fit their preconception. So it’s interesting to see you do it so blatantly.
I know you are going to dig down and defend it. You always do. So I’m going to make a decision not to be drawn in this time.
Hilarious, you accusing someone else of digging down to defend something is quite remarkable.You never explained your ‘quirk’. Probably because you rejected the study due to confirmation bias and subconsciously decided that there must be some odd reason why it differed that could not be relevant.
It’s no big deal, most people do it, but you have made a point of accusing others of rejecting evidence that does not fit their preconception. So it’s interesting to see you do it so blatantly.
I know you are going to dig down and defend it. You always do. So I’m going to make a decision not to be drawn in this time.
And I repeat, all I am saying it is an outlier compared with all the other surveys done in Japan (which have suggested 0.1-0.5% ish levels of prevalence) with no obviously good reason (plus they had been using rapid point of care tests not elisa lab assays so your pet topic of false positives is definitely present) and therefore is less likely and potentially much less likely to be suitable to be taken at face value ie extrapolating to the rest of Tokyo region/Japan for general prevalence as you have done. I don't particularly see any controversial or contradictory about that to what I have noted about people only wanting to see what they want to see which is something you in particular specialise in.
It’s an argument a 5 year old would appreciate.
Colonel Cupcake said:
V1nce Fox said:
SS2. said:
Colonel Cupcake said:
At least one NHS staff member will not be having it. Me.
I doubt you'll be alone.i’ve learnt more from this thread that i trust than all legitimate media put together.
Sticks. said:
Elysium said:
I think it’s reasonable to expect the person who is ultimately in charge of the NHS to take feedback from frontline staff seriously, particularly in this incredibly difficult situation.
Your ‘nothing to see here’ approach is baffling.
I honestly feel like someone watching people slowly wake up from some sort of mass psychosis. It’s as if everyone has been under mind control and they are slowly coming round but still unaware of what has happened.
I would not believe it was possible if I was not living through it.
Get real, you think he has time to sit and read letters from a GP? Not busy, no, nothing else to do. Your ‘nothing to see here’ approach is baffling.
I honestly feel like someone watching people slowly wake up from some sort of mass psychosis. It’s as if everyone has been under mind control and they are slowly coming round but still unaware of what has happened.
I would not believe it was possible if I was not living through it.
Baffling? Mind psychosis? Given how you've been sucked in by the DM cranking your chain, that's ironic. They know, as I do, how ministerial correspondence is handled, but won't let that get in the way of a good story.
It is precisely the sort of correspondence ministers should take very seriously indeed.
A superficial response cobbled together from old speeches might be enough to satisfy a member of the public, but not 66 frontline medics who know exactly what they are talking about.
They seem to come up with one of these "vaccine is just around the corner" stories every few weeks. Perish the thought that they might be deliberately injected into the media to shine people on and try to shore up support for the lockdown measures as people get fed up with them. The documented fact is that the Oxford/AZN vaccine phase 3 trial is scheduled to finish towards the end of 2022. Other vaccines will have similar testing timescales. So unless they're planning to roll out a vaccine with much lower levels of testing than is normal, there probably isn't going to be a vaccine before 2023. This is before you even start to consider how effective it might or might not be.
Elysium said:
Sticks. said:
Elysium said:
I think it’s reasonable to expect the person who is ultimately in charge of the NHS to take feedback from frontline staff seriously, particularly in this incredibly difficult situation.
Your ‘nothing to see here’ approach is baffling.
I honestly feel like someone watching people slowly wake up from some sort of mass psychosis. It’s as if everyone has been under mind control and they are slowly coming round but still unaware of what has happened.
I would not believe it was possible if I was not living through it.
Get real, you think he has time to sit and read letters from a GP? Not busy, no, nothing else to do. Your ‘nothing to see here’ approach is baffling.
I honestly feel like someone watching people slowly wake up from some sort of mass psychosis. It’s as if everyone has been under mind control and they are slowly coming round but still unaware of what has happened.
I would not believe it was possible if I was not living through it.
Baffling? Mind psychosis? Given how you've been sucked in by the DM cranking your chain, that's ironic. They know, as I do, how ministerial correspondence is handled, but won't let that get in the way of a good story.
If there's any truth to the mask paper showing the virus can become nebulised by masks it's surely game over for all this daftness. We've all chucked at the graphs that stay flat or even usually increase after mask wearing is brought on but if it turns out mask wearing is increasing the chance of getting a large enough dose to get ill what will the general population think?! Surely people will be burning masks in the street the day after and calling for the government's head? This is the downside with mandating everything legally Vs a bit of guidance if you force everyone to do something your 100% responsible.
Alucidnation said:
Not that many out of the the 30K odd of GPs.
This - surely the route is via the Royal College of General Practitioners.Then it has some authority.
Anything else is worthless. Given they (the signatories) must know this, you'd wonder why they didn't get the buy in of the Royal College.
Elysium said:
Sticks. said:
Elysium said:
I think it’s reasonable to expect the person who is ultimately in charge of the NHS to take feedback from frontline staff seriously, particularly in this incredibly difficult situation.
Your ‘nothing to see here’ approach is baffling.
I honestly feel like someone watching people slowly wake up from some sort of mass psychosis. It’s as if everyone has been under mind control and they are slowly coming round but still unaware of what has happened.
I would not believe it was possible if I was not living through it.
Get real, you think he has time to sit and read letters from a GP? Not busy, no, nothing else to do. Your ‘nothing to see here’ approach is baffling.
I honestly feel like someone watching people slowly wake up from some sort of mass psychosis. It’s as if everyone has been under mind control and they are slowly coming round but still unaware of what has happened.
I would not believe it was possible if I was not living through it.
Baffling? Mind psychosis? Given how you've been sucked in by the DM cranking your chain, that's ironic. They know, as I do, how ministerial correspondence is handled, but won't let that get in the way of a good story.
It is precisely the sort of correspondence ministers should take very seriously indeed.
A superficial response cobbled together from old speeches might be enough to satisfy a member of the public, but not 66 frontline medics who know exactly what they are talking about.
'Cobbled together from old speeches' is wasn't. But that's a quote from her Twitter page - did you cut and paste it?
Civil servants are employed to decide the level at which correspondence is answered, that's their job.
You don't think the DM has an angle here? Looks like confirmation bias to me.
Elysium said:
Last post on the matter from me. That is not all you said. You explained it away as a ‘quirk’. You invented an external factor that would allow you to dismiss the data that did not fit your preconceptions. It’s classic confirmation bias. And as I predicted you doubled down with a silly attempt to argue that even if you did do it, which you aren’t going to admit, I’m worse than you anyway.
It’s an argument a 5 year old would appreciate.
Yes it's the kind of argument you specialise in that I wouldn't insult a 5 year old of making. It’s an argument a 5 year old would appreciate.
I rather dislike being misrepresented so let's go back to what I said exactly rather than what you are accusing me of. I said if the survey was accurate it was likely to be just a quirk of that particular sample population (for whatever reason which isn't terribly important) and probably unreflective of the general population prevalence. Because plenty of other general population surveys show exactly that and it seemed unlikely that one very obvious outlier was the true representation of the population as you are claiming.
I don't have a particular preconception of what I want to believe (unlike you I might add) but if one survey shows especially low IFR and very high prevalence vs I don't know heaps of others that show the opposite I think it is reasonable to make a guess which set of numbers is likely to be more accurate.
I am not the one stating that the single study showing very different numbers to just about... every other similar antibody study done anywhere you might want to look in the world is the 'gold dust' that is the one true hallowed truth of the matter like you are. Confirmation bias....? you tell me who's showing it.
Edited by isaldiri on Sunday 25th October 14:28
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