CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 5)

[EddieSteadyGo]

ant1973 said:

Thought this was quite funny re the imminent Pfizer vaccine:-

https://www.statnews.com/2020/10/27/no-news-on-pfi...

"Pfizer and BioNTech are under a white-hot spotlight because their Covid-19 vaccine, by design, is likely to be the first to have any efficacy data. But that first analysis will come when there have been a total of only 32 cases of Covid-19 across the company’s entire 42,000-volunteer study. It would be considered to be positive, Pfizer has said, if six or fewer of those 32 cases occurred in the group that received the vaccine, with the rest occurring in the group that received the placebo. The trial is expected to continue until 150 of the volunteers in the study have had Covid-19."

Out of 42,000 people, they still can't reach the threshold of 32 cases after 4 months...

What does that tell you about prevalence?

I was thinking about that from yesterday following isaldiri's link.

Maybe the problem is the term "case". Perhaps they are counting serious infections (which would normally be the definition for a case). And if they are mostly injecting health, young volunteers, it might be the reason why they have so few genuine "cases".

[JagLover]

Otispunkmeyer said:

Argentina

Locked down early and hard like a champ. #FollowedTheScience, #TakingItSeriously

Now in the top 5 worldwide for cases rising. So their lock down has only succeeded in delaying. Which might be nicer for them since its their summer now, but it seems like a lot of the population are at the end of their ropes having endured all those restrictions only for it go mental when they are finally released. Gutted.

https://archive.is/BaYkM

Archive link to avoid paywall.

Seems to be something going on with this virus and South America. Argentina about to join many of its neighbours in the top ten for deaths per 100,000 of population.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/corona...

[shikari83]

Alucidnation said:

Have you got evidence to the contrary then?

you can't be serious?

If she is saying that then she is basically saying covid positive person(s) don't cause outbreaks. Therefore all restrictions are bks. It's a complete contradiction to what they are actually doing.

[Alucidnation]

alangla said:

i4got said:

Alucidnation said:

johnboy1975 said:

Nicola Sturgeons findings on care homes us out " no statistical evidence that releasing covid positive people into carehomes caused covid outbreaks"

This is the scale at which they are prepared to lie to cover themselves

Have you got evidence to the contrary then?

Seriously.?

The whole Scottish set of tiers and restrictions are based on reducing contact between those who have the virus and those who don't.

They are now saying there is no statistical evidence that allowing those who have tested positive with Covid to mix with those who have not, does not cause Covid outbreaks.

You don't see any conflict in those two points of view?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54719827 - out of 3599 people sent from hospital to care homes between 1st March & 21st April, only 650 had been tested and of those 650, 78 had tested positive, so 12% positive. In saying that - the last time the BBC dug into this, I think one board (Fife?) said that they'd discharged some patients that had tested positive some weeks before & weren't thought to be infectious - it's not clear if the 78 includes those individuals.


EDIT - found the previous story - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-53797462 - it was Borders & only involved 2 patients.

Edited by alangla on Wednesday 28th October 12:44

Thanks.

[king arthur]

the-photographer said:

andy43 said:

the-photographer said:

Pupbelly said:

So lots of media about Vitamin D today stating that 80% of the people that died had a vitamin D deficiency. I guess that's due to the majority of the people dieing are old and therefore don't get outside too much and that the older generation don't take in sufficient vitamin D generally?

That's great news when most folk are now spending even more time inside!

We've tried a bit in the past, not as much promotion as some countries

https://life.spectator.co.uk/articles/on-vitamin-d...

Crazy this is only making news now.
Spanish study was pointing to this over a month ago.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V8Ks9fUh2k8
Older studies for resp problems clearly point to the same conclusions.
Anthony Faucii admitted he’s on 6000IU a day plus vit C.
Cheap, simple, widely available... but unprofitable.

Loads and loads of research from 10/20/30 years ago

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228698999...

It's interesting.

If you look through the numbers on the Worldometers website, you notice that most countries in Europe are falling into one of two camps.

Either, the country suffered a large number of cases and deaths in the initial pandemic, and now cases and deaths are rising again but not to the level they reached before. Countries like the UK, France, Spain, Italy, etc;

Or, the country seemed to get away lightly in the initial pandemic with relatively low cases and deaths compared to the above countries, but now things are looking grim for them with much higher cases and deaths than in the initial pandemic. Countries like Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland. You could theorise that this is because they have many more susceptible people still to be exposed to the virus whereas the first group of countries have fewer.

But.....there are three countries that don't fit into either of these two camps.

Sweden, Norway and Finland. They all have rising cases for sure, but daily deaths haven't really moved at all since the end of the initial wave.

What do those three countries do differently?

They all fortify some foods with vitamin D, I know that. But is that enough to explain it?

[Bullett]

shikari83 said:

Under what authority do the government think they can stop students going back to their home for Christmas? What are they going to do, weld the doors of student halls and shared houses shut?

Surely all the students have had it by now and recovered or are dead as it is so contagious?
If my kids were at Uni I'd be fetching them home. I'd probably have done it already if they were on remote teaching only.

[JagLover]

king arthur said:

But.....there are three countries that don't fit into either of these two camps.

Sweden, Norway and Finland. They all have rising cases for sure, but daily deaths haven't really moved at all since the end of the initial wave.

What do those three countries do differently?

They all fortify some foods with vitamin D, I know that. But is that enough to explain it?

Looking online though fortifying food with vitamin D is banned in Germany for some reason and they have done better than most as well.

[Janluke]

Bullett said:

shikari83 said:

Under what authority do the government think they can stop students going back to their home for Christmas? What are they going to do, weld the doors of student halls and shared houses shut?

Surely all the students have had it by now and recovered or are dead as it is so contagious?
If my kids were at Uni I'd be fetching them home. I'd probably have done it already if they were on remote teaching only.

During the first student lockdown at the halls in Glasgow they where told if they went home they wouldn't be allowed back I'm assuming they'll do the same this time

[craig1912]

Janluke said:

During the first student lockdown at the halls in Glasgow they where told if they went home they wouldn't be allowed back I'm assuming they'll do the same this time

That won’t happen. My lad is at Uni and will be coming home for Christmas. He is doing some face to face lectures. If they don’t let him back then he would be due a refund of accommodation and tuition fees which I’m guessing the Unis don’t want.

[king arthur]

JagLover said:

Looking online though fortifying food with vitamin D is banned in Germany for some reason and they have done better than most as well.

They have done better but the pattern there is still following other Western European countries - cases increasing followed by an increase in deaths. In the Nordic countries it isn't. Rise in cases, no corresponding rise in deaths.

[Red Devil]

shikari83 said:

RSTurboPaul said:

I've been away from this thread for a few weeks, partly for my sanity and partly because I wanted to catch up with everything, but I'm not reading 100+ pages... lol

So this might have been posted already, but if not, it looks like 'the easy wins' are being secured first in the plan to test everyone all the time forever...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-54697113

BBC said:

Covid Christmas: Rapid tests could get students home


Covid tests with results within an hour are being piloted in universities - which could help students in England get home for Christmas.

Under what authority do the government think they can stop students going back to their home for Christmas? What are they going to do, weld the doors of student halls and shared houses shut?

It doesn't need to. All it has to do is pressure Universities into being its proxies to impose sanctions. For example.

Student Disciplinary Regulations 2020-2021 said:

Exclusion, either permanently or for a specified period, from the use of a specified University service or facility (including specified residential facilities) to which the misconduct relates.

[320d is all you need]

rich888 said:

Haha, 'the lockdown in Wales is ‘psychotic and absolutely deranged’!!!

What is funny about it, if I may ask.

[ChocolateFrog]

scrubchub said:

ChocolateFrog said:

Won't be doing a party but will be visiting all my immediate relatives over the christmas holidays, the police can go fk themselves.

I'd love to have the same attitude (I have already made plans for Christmas in fact, at someone else's house) but the reality is that it will come with the risk of significant fines that will be, for the vast, vast majority, deterrent enough.

All lets not forget the curtain twitching Stasi wannabee s who will be only too willing and happy to report their neighbours to the police. We all know they're around.

You're more likely to die of Covid than be fined. We have police officers in the family and even they're ignoring all the bullst rules.

One actually had a highly embarrassing situation where they were called out during Lockdown 1 to what turned out to be a child minder working for the council. Safe to say that egg on face situation has curbed their interest in breaking up families.

[ChocolateFrog]

shikari83 said:

RSTurboPaul said:

I've been away from this thread for a few weeks, partly for my sanity and partly because I wanted to catch up with everything, but I'm not reading 100+ pages... lol

So this might have been posted already, but if not, it looks like 'the easy wins' are being secured first in the plan to test everyone all the time forever...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-54697113

BBC said:

Covid Christmas: Rapid tests could get students home


Covid tests with results within an hour are being piloted in universities - which could help students in England get home for Christmas.

Under what authority do the government think they can stop students going back to their home for Christmas? What are they going to do, weld the doors of student halls and shared houses shut?

They're under threat of being kicked off their courses for the slightest infraction.

They've been absolutely shafted during the whole pandemic, possibly the only group I feel genuinely sorry for throughout all this.

[jshell]

king arthur said:

It's interesting.

If you look through the numbers on the Worldometers website, you notice that most countries in Europe are falling into one of two camps.

Either, the country suffered a large number of cases and deaths in the initial pandemic, and now cases and deaths are rising again but not to the level they reached before. Countries like the UK, France, Spain, Italy, etc;

Or, the country seemed to get away lightly in the initial pandemic with relatively low cases and deaths compared to the above countries, but now things are looking grim for them with much higher cases and deaths than in the initial pandemic. Countries like Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland. You could theorise that this is because they have many more susceptible people still to be exposed to the virus whereas the first group of countries have fewer.

But.....there are three countries that don't fit into either of these two camps.

Sweden, Norway and Finland. They all have rising cases for sure, but daily deaths haven't really moved at all since the end of the initial wave.

What do those three countries do differently?

They all fortify some foods with vitamin D, I know that. But is that enough to explain it?

These 3 countries have a far lesser occurence of underlying health issues like heart disease, obesity, etc?

[ChocolateFrog]

320d is all you need said:

rich888 said:

Haha, 'the lockdown in Wales is ‘psychotic and absolutely deranged’!!!

What is funny about it, if I may ask.

It's funny because it's surreal.

I find it hilarious that people will accept being told clothing and sanitary products are not essential.

That a government minister has to stand up and say tampons are essential.

That is hilarious.

[markyb_lcy]

king arthur said:

But.....there are three countries that don't fit into either of these two camps.

Sweden, Norway and Finland. They all have rising cases for sure, but daily deaths haven't really moved at all since the end of the initial wave.

What do those three countries do differently?

They all fortify some foods with vitamin D, I know that. But is that enough to explain it?

At least two of those countries treat their population like grown-ups.

Sweden, had no proper lockdown and instead opted for mostly voluntary measures.

Norway, did have a lockdown but later levelled with the population that it was a mistake to do so. Presumably have not done the same since.

I have not looked at Finland but I suspect it will be along the same lines.

Treating the population like grown-ups is much more likely to encourage a population to act like grown ups. Treating people like naughty schoolchildren perhaps produces unsurprisingly a population that act like naughty schoolchildren.

[shikari83]

Red Devil said:

shikari83 said:

RSTurboPaul said:

I've been away from this thread for a few weeks, partly for my sanity and partly because I wanted to catch up with everything, but I'm not reading 100+ pages... lol

So this might have been posted already, but if not, it looks like 'the easy wins' are being secured first in the plan to test everyone all the time forever...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-54697113

BBC said:

Covid Christmas: Rapid tests could get students home


Covid tests with results within an hour are being piloted in universities - which could help students in England get home for Christmas.

Under what authority do the government think they can stop students going back to their home for Christmas? What are they going to do, weld the doors of student halls and shared houses shut?

It doesn't need to. All it has to do is pressure Universities into being its proxies to impose sanctions. For example.

Student Disciplinary Regulations 2020-2021 said:

Exclusion, either permanently or for a specified period, from the use of a specified University service or facility (including specified residential facilities) to which the misconduct relates.

I get that, but how does the uni know a student has gone home? They can't monitor them all (or even many), especially the 2nd/3rd years who will likely live in privately rented houses across the city / town. It's not like their attendance to classes can be monitored as they'll have finished for a few weeks.

[ChocolateFrog]

Likewise what's the point in a Scottish pub in November if you have to stand outside.

Screams of giving them just enough leeway so they don't have to compensate them despite the fact they'll all be totally screwed.

[320d is all you need]

Bullett said:

shikari83 said:

Under what authority do the government think they can stop students going back to their home for Christmas? What are they going to do, weld the doors of student halls and shared houses shut?

Surely all the students have had it by now and recovered or are dead as it is so contagious?
If my kids were at Uni I'd be fetching them home. I'd probably have done it already if they were on remote teaching only.

Unfortunately not from what I see.

Many students are very happy to "do what it takes to protect others".