CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 5)

[21st Century Man]

Anecdotally, I just walked into town to the grocers and I can see that peoples behaviour has changed from last week. Far more masks being worn outside, more space being given when passing on the footpath, or even stopping and moving aside or crossing the road. More control and marshalling of entry into shops etc. But, people being nicer and more civil to each other, as it was last time, which is the only nice aspect.

[MikeT66]

TheJimi said:

Lord Marylebone said:

grumbledoak said:

We aren't going back to old normal. It has been made pretty clear, but everyone is in denial.

Out of interest, which aspects of our current situation do you feel might be permanent?

I realise the question isn't directed at me, but I don't see any end in sight without a very successful and effective vaccine and that's not looking hugely likely, so it's kinda easy to see how you could conclude that the old normal is gone.

I think we may see less acceptance of cash in shops/bars, etc. I'd like to think that medical practitioners would get back to normal... but I have a feeling that won't happen, either. On a different level, at my workplace we've had bonuses finished and overtime payments cancelled (even though the work has increased due to redundancies) - things like that will be hard to claw back now they've been surrendered, I think.

[alangla]

MikeT66 said:

TheJimi said:

Lord Marylebone said:

grumbledoak said:

We aren't going back to old normal. It has been made pretty clear, but everyone is in denial.

Out of interest, which aspects of our current situation do you feel might be permanent?

I realise the question isn't directed at me, but I don't see any end in sight without a very successful and effective vaccine and that's not looking hugely likely, so it's kinda easy to see how you could conclude that the old normal is gone.

I think we may see less acceptance of cash in shops/bars, etc. I'd like to think that medical practitioners would get back to normal... but I have a feeling that won't happen, either.

Unfortunately I fear that is gone forever as well - Sturgeon has previously said that GP appointments in Scotland should be delivered remotely by default permanently.

I do, however, think it'll be more difficult to resist a return to actual real normal next summer, especially as other countries start to open up. Again, taking the Scottish example, Sturgeon wanted to stay locked down for as long as possible this summer but was forced by the re-opening that was going on in England. If other European governments start to push re-opening (let's be honest, the Spanish will probably try to rescue the 2021 tourist season if at all possible as will other tourist heavy European countries) then I think the groupthink may well change. What happens in autumn 2021 is anyone's guess though. Also, I suspect changes around a reduction in cash use and the decline of the high street are probably permanent. I do also wonder if we'll ever see the recovery of the small independent publican or restauranteur in the regions where their businesses have been utterly destroyed. I suspect we may have a situation where going for a beer will involve choosing between a generic Wetherspoon, Mitchell & Butler or Belhaven pub.

[Alucidnation]

markyb_lcy said:

Alucidnation said:

mondeoman said:

Alucidnation said:

Herd immunity is pie in the sky.

BOT BOT BOT

Sorry to be the voice of reason.


Why do you think we have vaccines for Flu every year?

H.I. isn't really working for that has it?

It’s not the voice of reason, it’s an assertion pulled out of your arse and delivered with nothing to back it up.

A bit like most of the garbage posted in here then?


Anyway, I am sure there are plenty of papers around saying pretty much the same thing.

[markyb_lcy]

Alucidnation said:

markyb_lcy said:

Alucidnation said:

mondeoman said:

Alucidnation said:

Herd immunity is pie in the sky.

BOT BOT BOT

Sorry to be the voice of reason.


Why do you think we have vaccines for Flu every year?

H.I. isn't really working for that has it?

It’s not the voice of reason, it’s an assertion pulled out of your arse and delivered with nothing to back it up.

A bit like most of the garbage posted in here then?


Anyway, I am sure there are plenty of papers around saying pretty much the same thing.

Well yea, I can’t disagree with that first statement. Most of the rubbish doesn’t present itself as “the voice of reason” though, which is the only reason I even replied to it.

With regard to your second comment, if you still regard newspapers as fair an authoritative after the 7 months of shoddy journalism, outright lies, misuse of statistics and attempts to silence discourse which contradicts govt strategy or breaks ofcom guidelines, then there really is no hope for you.

Given you discount herd immunity as being pie in the sky, do you, by extension also accept the prospect of a vaccine to be “pie-in-the-sky”?

[df76]

wobert said:

df76 said:

wobert said:

So, I’m currently under ‘house arrest’ as I’m living in Wales.....

This is the latest headline in the BBC:



Further down the feed is this graphic, the horizontal lines are at 100, 200 and 300 people:



Is it me, or are the two completely mismatched?

Are you comparing occupancy levels against new admissions?? How many of those in the lower graph have now left hospital??

Your right, but even so the two should correlate, even allowing for a slight lag between a new case being admitted and then becoming counted as part of the occupancy level.

The two don’t correlate to the headline though....

Without knowing the numbers being discharged I still don't think it's possible to make a decision based on those numbers presented.

[Taylor James]

We went to a pub last night. A more soulless experience would be hard to imagine, made worse by this utterly ludicrous policy of masks on the moment you move but everybody's mask off when sitting down. I believe in supporting local businesses, but when the violin playing publican started telling people they had to wear a mask, and he didn't recognise any exemptions, all my sympathy went out of the window. I then tried to have an intelligent conversation about how this is all supposed to end. I might as well have tried discussing it with a chimpanzee. Time to stay in until something approaching normality returns.

I should say this all took place in tier one. I can only imagine how dire it must be for people in tier 3.

[21st Century Man]

This is from Spain, but I found it interesting, no idea as to the scientific accuracy, but it seems to be fairly obvious common sense.

https://english.elpais.com/society/2020-10-28/a-ro...

[Alucidnation]

markyb_lcy said:

Alucidnation said:

markyb_lcy said:

Alucidnation said:

mondeoman said:

Alucidnation said:

Herd immunity is pie in the sky.

BOT BOT BOT

Sorry to be the voice of reason.


Why do you think we have vaccines for Flu every year?

H.I. isn't really working for that has it?

It’s not the voice of reason, it’s an assertion pulled out of your arse and delivered with nothing to back it up.

A bit like most of the garbage posted in here then?


Anyway, I am sure there are plenty of papers around saying pretty much the same thing.

Well yea, I can’t disagree with that first statement. Most of the rubbish doesn’t present itself as “the voice of reason” though, which is the only reason I even replied to it.

With regard to your second comment, if you still regard newspapers as fair an authoritative after the 7 months of shoddy journalism, outright lies, misuse of statistics and attempts to silence discourse which contradicts govt strategy or breaks ofcom guidelines, then there really is no hope for you.

Given you discount herd immunity as being pie in the sky, do you, by extension also accept the prospect of a vaccine to be “pie-in-the-sky”?

To be honest, (and i am sure i am not the only one), I just don't know what to think anymore.

If i get CV19 - there is a high probability that I won't survive it.

Would i have a vaccine if there was one available? - Yes, and I would hope there is less chance of that killing me than CV19.

However, having said all that, I am not staying home any more than I would normally, but when i do go out, I use hand sanitiser, and wear a mask etc.

[21st Century Man]

Isn't herd immunity and a vaccine the same thing, one acquired naturally and one acquired artificially?

[Alucidnation]

21st Century Man said:

Isn't herd immunity and a vaccine the same thing, one acquired naturally and one acquired artificially?

I fking hope not.

[Douglas Quaid]

grumbledoak said:

320d is all you need said:

I genuinely don't see any way out within the next 5 years. I think the last 8 months is only the start of it.

2025 is my prediction too.

I suspect once this one starts to die
down due to herd immunity over the next couple of years, either naturally or with vaccine, there’ll be a new one. Covid22. Then the whole thing will start again.

[Steve vRS]

Alucidnation said:

To be honest, (and i am sure i am not the only one), I just don't know what to think anymore.

If i get CV19 - there is a high probability that I won't survive.

Are you very very old? Otherwise there is a very high probability, that you would survive it.

[Alucidnation]

Steve vRS said:

Alucidnation said:

To be honest, (and i am sure i am not the only one), I just don't know what to think anymore.

If i get CV19 - there is a high probability that I won't survive.

Are you very very old? Otherwise there is a very high probability, that you would survive it.

Just into my 50's with the results of a very much less than healthy lifestyle.

That's all I am saying.

[V1nce Fox]

very close degree of separation to me now. a teenager i know just tested positive. also work colleague who also knows said teen started looking ropey yesterday and has gone for a test. waiting on result now.


i'm confident of beating it if i have it, but it might be prudent not to visit my elderly ill mum this weekend.

[Douglas Quaid]

Alucidnation said:

Just into my 50's with the results of a very much less than healthy lifestyle.

That's all I am saying.

There are plenty of people that are very unhealthy that have survived it.

Look at Donald trump for a start! Mid 70s, overweight, spends every day on god knows what drugs but certainly a lot of uppers, speed and whatever else. Guy should be a candidate for being ill with something and yet still no issues. My friends mother was at deaths door in hospital due to other issues post surgery and caught it, didn’t even show symptoms. Slowly recovered from the other stuff and is now at home.

Remember 9 out of 10 people don’t even show any symptoms. So don’t presume you would die, remember the media concentrate on the few that suffer/die, the vast majority which is well over 99% are ignored as they just get over it like a cold.
Sooner or later you’re almost certain to get it as it is in the population now. Whether next week or next year, at some point you’ll get it. Don’t worry too much about it.

[Alucidnation]

Douglas Quaid said:

Alucidnation said:

Just into my 50's with the results of a very much less than healthy lifestyle.

That's all I am saying.

There are plenty of people that are very unhealthy that have survived it.

Look at Donald trump for a start! Mid 70s, overweight, spends every day on god knows what drugs but certainly a lot of uppers, speed and whatever else. Guy should be a candidate for being ill with something and yet still no issues. My friends mother was at deaths door in hospital due to other issues post surgery and caught it, didn’t even show symptoms. Slowly recovered from the other stuff and is now at home.

Remember 9 out of 10 people don’t even show any symptoms. So don’t presume you would die, remember the media concentrate on the few that suffer/die, the vast majority which is well over 99% are ignored as they just get over it like a cold.
Sooner or later you’re almost certain to get it as it is in the population now. Whether next week or next year, at some point you’ll get it. Don’t worry too much about it.

[V1nce Fox]

fk it, let's start having coof parties. bouncy castle full of spit should do it.

[21st Century Man]

Alucidnation said:

Douglas Quaid said:

Alucidnation said:

Just into my 50's with the results of a very much less than healthy lifestyle.

That's all I am saying.

There are plenty of people that are very unhealthy that have survived it.

Look at Donald trump for a start! Mid 70s, overweight, spends every day on god knows what drugs but certainly a lot of uppers, speed and whatever else. Guy should be a candidate for being ill with something and yet still no issues. My friends mother was at deaths door in hospital due to other issues post surgery and caught it, didn’t even show symptoms. Slowly recovered from the other stuff and is now at home.

Remember 9 out of 10 people don’t even show any symptoms. So don’t presume you would die, remember the media concentrate on the few that suffer/die, the vast majority which is well over 99% are ignored as they just get over it like a cold.
Sooner or later you’re almost certain to get it as it is in the population now. Whether next week or next year, at some point you’ll get it. Don’t worry too much about it.

You may already have had it too, not a crazy concept.

[ORD]

Alucidnation said:

To be honest, (and i am sure i am not the only one), I just don't know what to think anymore.

If i get CV19 - there is a high probability that I won't survive it.

Would i have a vaccine if there was one available? - Yes, and I would hope there is less chance of that killing me than CV19.

However, having said all that, I am not staying home any more than I would normally, but when i do go out, I use hand sanitiser, and wear a mask etc.

Seriously? You would very likely die if you caught Covid but are still going out? Are you extremely old?