CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 5)
Discussion
rich888 said:
I'm pretty sure he didn't say that, here's the podcast on Youtube:
https://lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/
From the article
""The pandemic is effectively over, with small, self-limiting outbreaks which will soon subside.""
28% population susceptible should mean it's easily within herd immunity threshold where transmission is limiting and R is not greater than 1.
It's been R > 1 for well over a month by now. given the ONS prevalence surveys since.... mid September it's a little hard for anyone to call that 'small self limiting that will soon subside'.
egor110 said:
gumshoe said:
Covid maybe killing would have been flu victims, but I think it is more likely that they're assigning flu deaths to covid.
Given all the above, and the information in this thread, the government's actions are totally sinister. This is now not to do with Covid.
This is more sinister.
To the poster saying everyone is sitting on their bums doing nothing, presumably you are happy with the status quo at the moment? Otherwise what are YOU doing about it? And its not unreasonable to try to overthrow this dictatorship without resorting to a revolution!
That's me.Given all the above, and the information in this thread, the government's actions are totally sinister. This is now not to do with Covid.
This is more sinister.
To the poster saying everyone is sitting on their bums doing nothing, presumably you are happy with the status quo at the moment? Otherwise what are YOU doing about it? And its not unreasonable to try to overthrow this dictatorship without resorting to a revolution!
How exactly do you think your overthrowing a dictatorship?
My whole point is your easy to ignore because all your doing is emailing mp's or posting on forums.
1) what are you doing about it?
2) it is sensible to try to enact change through the normal means.
You may be advocating civil unrest, coup d'etat, revolution etc, but most reasonable people will try to go through the legal/democratic motions first.
Granted, I agree with you, I do not believe it will change a thing. But you seem to be of the opinion that we should all be rioting right away. I don't think the populace is there yet. They will likely get there soon. Especially as it becomes more and more apparent that this is not to do with a virus.
Thankyou4calling said:
Approximate figs
We’ve had 20,000 a day who’ve caught it ( minimum) every day for a few weeks.
We’ve had 100 odd who’ve died of it (with it) every day for a few weeks.
Shouldn’t the news be announcing that 19,900 people are recovering from Covid EVERY DAY!
It’s great news!
I've got two stories about this, someone I occasionally work with caught covid a couple of weeks ago, apparently he was a sceptic, its all a load of bWe’ve had 20,000 a day who’ve caught it ( minimum) every day for a few weeks.
We’ve had 100 odd who’ve died of it (with it) every day for a few weeks.
Shouldn’t the news be announcing that 19,900 people are recovering from Covid EVERY DAY!
It’s great news!
ks, only kills the odd 100 year old etc but when he caught it he couldn't get up the stairs, had to lie on the bed to recover for days and its open his eyes as he was staring death in the face, except he is now back in work because "it did his head in staying at home"The other story was my over the road neighbour, I called in to fix his electric fire, his wife was sat in her arm chair playing solitaire on the ipad looking very gloomy, apparently she has been sacked today after being on furlough since about March, worked for Britannia Hotels, it suddenly dawned on me that its the end of October/furlough. On the plus side I fixed their fire and she is s
t hot at solitaire.Red Devil said:
Harry H said:
JagLover said:
It is not a "big mistake" as all the data shows that for the majority it accelerates deaths rather than causes them. Hence "with" rather than "of".
Out of all the deaths recorded so far only just over a thousand didn't have a serious comorbidity. It may not be a matter of months that Covid accelerated their death, but if it was going to happen anyway in the next year or so then a more realistic portrayal is "with" rather than "of".
50% of those who died in carehomes had dementia for example
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/news/2020-07-03/ons-...
Once you get to that stage it is time to go.
This is what I've been trying to get to the bottom of. Where did you get this data ? And of those thousand deaths what was the age groups?Out of all the deaths recorded so far only just over a thousand didn't have a serious comorbidity. It may not be a matter of months that Covid accelerated their death, but if it was going to happen anyway in the next year or so then a more realistic portrayal is "with" rather than "of".
50% of those who died in carehomes had dementia for example
https://www.alzheimers.org.uk/news/2020-07-03/ons-...
Once you get to that stage it is time to go.
Why is nobody in the main stream media shouting about this if true?.
I try and dish out this type of argument to all the sheeple but they keep coming back, if this it true why are most other governments in the western world behaving the same as ours.
PeteinSQ said:
Can I ask though what people on here think is motivating this (and just about every other) government to pursue these strategies? A lot of people seem to imply (or outright claim) that there is some dark reason behind all this. This idea about the great big reset for example.
Is that what you believe?
Personally I think the government doesn't know what to do for the best, is fumbling around desperately hoping a vaccine will be along before too long and praying they don't go bankrupt before then.
If anyone thinks the reset is imaginary they need to get real. Klaus Schwab. If you don't know who he is you really should get up to speed pdq. I'll leave this direct quote of his here.Is that what you believe?
Personally I think the government doesn't know what to do for the best, is fumbling around desperately hoping a vaccine will be along before too long and praying they don't go bankrupt before then.
"The pandemic represents a rare but narrow window of opportunity to reflect, reimagine, and reset our world".
This is all about manipulation. The mechanism is simple. Create a climate of fear, divide society, and impoverish a huge swathe of the population making them dependent on the state.
Use propaganda and psychological conditioning to further that aim. Anyone who dares to disagree is promptly ridiculed/marginalised/demonised. Ring any bells?
Make no mistake, this is about power and control.
Lord Acton said:
If there is any presumption it is the other way, against the holders of power, increasing as the power increases. Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority, still more when you superadd the tendency or the certainty of corruption by authority. There is no worse heresy than that the office sanctifies the holder of it.
Ayn Rand said:
There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.
Lastly, something to lighten the mood in these dark times. Humour but with a kernel of truth - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58OBTi18bsY"And I’m delighted to speak alongside so many impressive colleagues who really understand this, and alongside Professor Klaus Schwab who literally ‘wrote the book’ on the 4th Industrial Revolution. Your work, bringing together as you do all the best minds on the planet, has informed what we are doing, and I’m delighted to work with you."
Professor Klaus Schwab is the protagonist of "the great reset"
mini site here:
https://www.weforum.org/great-reset
World Economic Forum
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/now-is-the-...
190 or so governments signed up to Agenda 2030 a few years:
https://www.weforum.org/projects/frontier-2030
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/agenda-...
If this Govt implements a lockdown now, when there is self evidently no emergency, then it will be the single biggest attack on our freedoms and democracy for 200 years.
This is not normal and it’s not ok.
The Govt is not your friend.
It’s not going to get better in a few weeks or a few months.
If you go along with this you are part of the problem. You are throwing the future of this country away.
Stand up. Fight. Resist.
This is not normal and it’s not ok.
The Govt is not your friend.
It’s not going to get better in a few weeks or a few months.
If you go along with this you are part of the problem. You are throwing the future of this country away.
Stand up. Fight. Resist.
isaldiri said:
rich888 said:
I'm pretty sure he didn't say that, here's the podcast on Youtube:
https://lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/
From the article
""The pandemic is effectively over, with small, self-limiting outbreaks which will soon subside.""
28% population susceptible should mean it's easily within herd immunity threshold where transmission is limiting and R is not greater than 1.
It's been R > 1 for well over a month by now. given the ONS prevalence surveys since.... mid September it's a little hard for anyone to call that 'small self limiting that will soon subside'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbMJoJ6i39k
Can you provide a chart showing the actual daily UK deaths for this year compared to previous years?
There was a court case today when Simon Dolan argued that lockdown was unlawful. It’s no coincidence that Jonathon Sumption said his piece just before it. And it’s no coincidence that, whilst the judges deliberate this weekend, the Govt has launched its latest propaganda campaign for more authoritarian oppression.
Someone in power is playing games with our lives.
I am no longer willing to tolerate it.
I don’t think I am alone.
Someone in power is playing games with our lives.
I am no longer willing to tolerate it.
I don’t think I am alone.
Based on positive #covid test data and deaths to 14th October, it’s possible to create a model that predicts deaths.
Model uses 7 day moving average and a 21 day lag.
Model shows that at least 10,000 will die in November - these people are already in the system...
This is indeed a worry...
isaldiri said:
rich888 said:
I'm pretty sure he didn't say that, here's the podcast on Youtube:
https://lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/
From the article
""The pandemic is effectively over, with small, self-limiting outbreaks which will soon subside.""
28% population susceptible should mean it's easily within herd immunity threshold where transmission is limiting and R is not greater than 1.
It's been R > 1 for well over a month by now. given the ONS prevalence surveys since.... mid September it's a little hard for anyone to call that 'small self limiting that will soon subside'.
We were aiming for 60% for herd immunity according to Ferguson, Whitty and Valance. We will see if Yeadon is wrong soon.
Rt has to be more than 1 locally if there are small outbreaks.
ruggedscotty said:
Based on positive #covid test data and deaths to 14th October, it’s possible to create a model that predicts deaths.
Model uses 7 day moving average and a 21 day lag.
Model shows that at least 10,000 will die in November - these people are already in the system...
This is indeed a worry...
isaldiri said:
https://lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/
From the article
""The pandemic is effectively over, with small, self-limiting outbreaks which will soon subside.""
28% population susceptible should mean it's easily within herd immunity threshold where transmission is limiting and R is not greater than 1.
It's been R > 1 for well over a month by now. given the ONS prevalence surveys since.... mid September it's a little hard for anyone to call that 'small self limiting that will soon subside'.
The proof will probably what happens to hospitalisations in London over the next few weeks. Those that are likely end up in hospital or deceased will already be infected.
Health, wealth and the economy are and always have been political decisions. My suspicion about leaked national lockdown stories is that the lockdown side of the debate feel they’re not currently “winning” the political argument internally. So looking to build a position or at the very least have a platform to say I told you so from later when the recriminations start.
Saving Xmas is just that a political position, certainly at work none of my colleagues believe Xmas 2020 is going be like Xmas 2019 with family gatherings.
rich888 said:
You seem to have 'forgotten' to put the link to the podcast in your reply, so here it is for everyone to listen to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbMJoJ6i39k
Can you provide a chart showing the actual daily UK deaths for this year compared to previous years?
Well do enlighten me, what's on the podcast that isn't in the article he wrote that would explain the continued rise in transmission we have seen since September which hasn't exactly shown any signs of being self limiting or subsiding? I quite frankly have better things to do with 2 hours of my life and if it was all so important he should have covered it in his article. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbMJoJ6i39k
Can you provide a chart showing the actual daily UK deaths for this year compared to previous years?
The ons chart of weekly deaths posted earlier should be sufficient for your purposes wrt to the second question?
b0rk said:
I’d suspect the truth is somewhere between the two. So less than 100% susceptible and more than 9% immune but not 30% previously infected and 30% immune.
Yeadon is saying only 30% are susceptible now ie 60+% are immune in his article. Herd immunity threshold that would hold R at ~ 1 was thought to be possible at maybe 40-50% (perhaps lower) given the not inconsiderable social distancing we are currently living our lives. R being over 1 for a good period of time kind of puts a dent on the idea most people aren't susceptible don't you think?Even under 'normal' conditions herd immunity threshold was being estimated at 66% given R0 of around 3 so we should have been able nearly to practically go back to dec19 behaviour with very limited increase in transmission if he was right.....
And I'd argue the lockdown stories are leaked just to test the level of pushback. Just like the stream of pro mask nonsense before July. The pro lockdowners have won but just feel the need to clear the focus group feedback further.....
Edited by isaldiri on Friday 30th October 23:54
Elysium said:
ruggedscotty said:
I’m not worried about that. I am worried about people like you torching our society in a foolish attempt to prevent the inevitable.ruggedscotty said:
Elysium said:
ruggedscotty said:
I’m not worried about that. I am worried about people like you torching our society in a foolish attempt to prevent the inevitable.- onlycovidlivesmatter
isaldiri said:
rich888 said:
You seem to have 'forgotten' to put the link to the podcast in your reply, so here it is for everyone to listen to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbMJoJ6i39k
Can you provide a chart showing the actual daily UK deaths for this year compared to previous years?
Well do enlighten me, what's on the podcast that isn't in the article he wrote that would explain the continued rise in transmission we have seen since September which hasn't exactly shown any signs of being self limiting or subsiding? I quite frankly have better things to do with 2 hours of my life and if it was all so important he should have covered it in his article. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbMJoJ6i39k
Can you provide a chart showing the actual daily UK deaths for this year compared to previous years?
The ons chart of weekly deaths posted earlier should be sufficient for your purposes wrt to the second question?
What is the total figure for excess deaths since 1st August?
ruggedscotty said:
Elysium said:
ruggedscotty said:
I’m not worried about that. I am worried about people like you torching our society in a foolish attempt to prevent the inevitable.Why are you trying to blame me for it?
I knew you'd agree with me on the merits of doing that! Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff