Coronavirus - the killer flu that will wipe us out? (Vol. 8)

Coronavirus - the killer flu that will wipe us out? (Vol. 8)

Author
Discussion

MOTORVATOR

6,993 posts

247 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Dr Z said:
red_slr said:
Anyone been keeping an eye on the health data projections?

They have been pretty accurate so far.

Not looking promising from mid December through to Feb.



Looks like they are predicting lock down from mid December.

I'm looking at this one:



The epidemic is tracking faster and at the worser range of the forecast at the moment. It's not sustainable.

From a report in July:

https://acmedsci.ac.uk/file-download/51353957
Exactly what I've been saying for the past month. The present interventions have managed to only hold the average rate of growth across the country at a consistent 105.5% of previous day on England only figures.

The problem is not just that they haven't got the epicentre back under control but that they have allowed it to migrate to other areas which are now seeing sustained growth as well. So when they do finally get the original epicentre flattened the other areas will just take it's place.

Far easier to contain it at low prevalence than high but we missed that opportunity.

grumbledoak

31,534 posts

233 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Dr Z said:
I'm looking at this one:



The epidemic is tracking faster and at the worser range of the forecast at the moment. It's not sustainable.

From a report in July:

https://acmedsci.ac.uk/file-download/51353957
Figure 4? That assumes R = 1.7 from September 2020 to July 2021, which is quite a high claim.
Also, where is the clipped, overlayed data from, please?


MOTORVATOR

6,993 posts

247 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
England only Beds and Deaths updated with the 5.5% daily growth it has been following for six weeks now..

Red figures are the ones that will change dramatically as they are date of death not reported.

I'll leave it to others to forecast where it may reverse trend or top out as many seem to think I'm pushing an agenda rather than just genuinely interested in where this will go without the waffle.


Russ T Bolt

1,689 posts

283 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
shakindog said:
Just to add my two penny

Needed ct scan wouldn’t let me have one till covid test results back.
Came back negative all good appointment for 12:00 happy days.
Returning to a&e 12 hours later down the covid route please.
I truly believe I picked it up at hospital as had been nowhere else except the local doctors not anywhere as you say I didn’t want it thanks
I have had 2 CT scans over the last 6 weeks, didn’t have a covid test for either.

First was routine 6 monthly post chemo scan, 2nd was more focused scan after they noticed a problem from the first.

But the local hospital has a mobile scanner in the car park of a local private hospital.

JagLover

42,416 posts

235 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
MOTORVATOR said:
Exactly what I've been saying for the past month. The present interventions have managed to only hold the average rate of growth across the country at a consistent 105.5% of previous day on England only figures.

The problem is not just that they haven't got the epicentre back under control but that they have allowed it to migrate to other areas which are now seeing sustained growth as well. So when they do finally get the original epicentre flattened the other areas will just take it's place.

Far easier to contain it at low prevalence than high but we missed that opportunity.
Just like the rest of the world, other than those countries which sealed their borders, have been so successful at "containing it?.

Sounds like the present interventions are doing a good job at keeping new infections at a level that wont exceed health capacity. Suppression is a pipe dream, and an economically suicidal one.



BrundanBianchi

1,106 posts

45 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
I think another full lockdown Is inevitable. Just about all of the SAGE medics wanted it to be in place already. Boris went against their advice.

MOTORVATOR

6,993 posts

247 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
markyb_lcy said:
I’m losing you? You were losing me, which is why I was trying to clarify whether your point was that a) people “taking the piss” or b) the loosening of restrictions was responsible for moving from decreasing prevalence to increasing prevalence. You appeared to originally assert a) but then quickly switched to b)

I haven’t accepted (in these few comments) that either one has.

You really need to come down off that fence mate. We are 8 months into this. You can’t go on supporting two opposing strategies forever. That said, I do agree that we have to pursue one or the other. The current balancing act of trying to do both appears to result in the worst of both worlds.
I'm not on any fence at all. I'm not running the show, the government is and I will support whichever way is decided upon as I don't want to see that worst of both worlds happening.

Neither have I switched tack as I clearly said six weeks ago to the deriding muppets on here "be careful what you wish for".

On the other hand you appear to be now wanting to perch very precariously on that fence with whether restrictions have any effect on prevalence or not. Well do they or don't they?

JagLover

42,416 posts

235 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
BrundanBianchi said:
I think another full lockdown Is inevitable. Just about all of the SAGE medics wanted it to be in place already. Boris went against their advice.
Sorry the "SAGE Medics"?. Seven of them are mathematicians and they also have a sprinkling of social scientists.

Hopefully Boris develops a backbone and keeps telling them to F*ck off.

All lockdown does is kick the can down the street. France had a strict lockdown and now they have 50K cases a day as it rebounds in the autumn.

CrutyRammers

13,735 posts

198 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
red_slr said:
Anyone been keeping an eye on the health data projections?

They have been pretty accurate so far.
Which projections are those, which have been "pretty accurate"?

markyb_lcy

9,904 posts

62 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
MOTORVATOR said:
markyb_lcy said:
I’m losing you? You were losing me, which is why I was trying to clarify whether your point was that a) people “taking the piss” or b) the loosening of restrictions was responsible for moving from decreasing prevalence to increasing prevalence. You appeared to originally assert a) but then quickly switched to b)

I haven’t accepted (in these few comments) that either one has.

You really need to come down off that fence mate. We are 8 months into this. You can’t go on supporting two opposing strategies forever. That said, I do agree that we have to pursue one or the other. The current balancing act of trying to do both appears to result in the worst of both worlds.
I'm not on any fence at all. I'm not running the show, the government is and I will support whichever way is decided upon as I don't want to see that worst of both worlds happening.

Neither have I switched tack as I clearly said six weeks ago to the deriding muppets on here "be careful what you wish for".

On the other hand you appear to be now wanting to perch very precariously on that fence with whether restrictions have any effect on prevalence or not. Well do they or don't they?
I think some of them, as a cumulative slow the spread a little, but imo not enough to justify doing them. The cost is not worth it. I think I’ve more or less said that before. Besides that, I don’t think we can suppress the thing into submission, so to what end are we slowing spread? Protect the NHS? Yea, right. How about the NHS protects us, the people who pay for it?

There are some measures which I’d sign up to without major complaint, such as not holding mass events (100 people or more) and criminalising anyone who knowingly puts older / vulnerable people at risk.

Other than that, I say let the virus do its thing, allow people to hide under their bed if they want, and the rest of us should get back to living our lives fully.

frisbee

4,979 posts

110 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
BrundanBianchi said:
I think another full lockdown Is inevitable. Just about all of the SAGE medics wanted it to be in place already. Boris went against their advice.
If he is proactive he'll get burned. Need to let it spread enough so he can heroically blame us for having to impose a lockdown.

BrundanBianchi

1,106 posts

45 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
frisbee said:
If he is proactive he'll get burned. Need to let it spread enough so he can heroically blame us for having to impose a lockdown.
I agree.

survivalist

5,664 posts

190 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
markyb_lcy said:
MOTORVATOR said:
markyb_lcy said:
I’m losing you? You were losing me, which is why I was trying to clarify whether your point was that a) people “taking the piss” or b) the loosening of restrictions was responsible for moving from decreasing prevalence to increasing prevalence. You appeared to originally assert a) but then quickly switched to b)

I haven’t accepted (in these few comments) that either one has.

You really need to come down off that fence mate. We are 8 months into this. You can’t go on supporting two opposing strategies forever. That said, I do agree that we have to pursue one or the other. The current balancing act of trying to do both appears to result in the worst of both worlds.
I'm not on any fence at all. I'm not running the show, the government is and I will support whichever way is decided upon as I don't want to see that worst of both worlds happening.

Neither have I switched tack as I clearly said six weeks ago to the deriding muppets on here "be careful what you wish for".

On the other hand you appear to be now wanting to perch very precariously on that fence with whether restrictions have any effect on prevalence or not. Well do they or don't they?
I think some of them, as a cumulative slow the spread a little, but imo not enough to justify doing them. The cost is not worth it. I think I’ve more or less said that before. Besides that, I don’t think we can suppress the thing into submission, so to what end are we slowing spread? Protect the NHS? Yea, right. How about the NHS protects us, the people who pay for it?

There are some measures which I’d sign up to without major complaint, such as not holding mass events (100 people or more) and criminalising anyone who knowingly puts older / vulnerable people at risk.

Other than that, I say let the virus do its thing, allow people to hide under their bed if they want, and the rest of us should get back to living our lives fully.
I’m with you apart from

“ criminalising anyone who knowingly puts older / vulnerable people at risk”

It’s the same nonsense non-essential items, travel etc . Very hard to quantify and even harder to police.

We should give the old and vulnerable the support and information to make their own decisions.

markyb_lcy

9,904 posts

62 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
survivalist said:
I’m with you apart from

“ criminalising anyone who knowingly puts older / vulnerable people at risk”

It’s the same nonsense non-essential items, travel etc . Very hard to quantify and even harder to police.

We should give the old and vulnerable the support and information to make their own decisions.
Absolutely, I don’t disagree with that.

No older or vulnerable person should at any point be lawfully put under any extra restrictions than anyone else.

That said, I do think they should be afforded extra protection from potentially infected persons whilst there is a risk.

Someone waltzing into a care home after testing positive for example, would be a clear cut case for me.

survivalist

5,664 posts

190 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
JagLover said:
BrundanBianchi said:
I think another full lockdown Is inevitable. Just about all of the SAGE medics wanted it to be in place already. Boris went against their advice.
Sorry the "SAGE Medics"?. Seven of them are mathematicians and they also have a sprinkling of social scientists.

Hopefully Boris develops a backbone and keeps telling them to F*ck off.

All lockdown does is kick the can down the street. France had a strict lockdown and now they have 50K cases a day as it rebounds in the autumn.
Indeed. It was borderline pointless back in March, but potentially allowed time for the NHS to prepare. That was during a period where there are not normally stretched. And we built capacity in the form of the nightingale hospitals.

Turns out they are no longer fit for purpose now that we know more about the virus and we’ve now hit a time of year where the NHS is always stretched.

markyb_lcy

9,904 posts

62 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I wonder if he’ll go for a hat-trick.

survivalist

5,664 posts

190 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
markyb_lcy said:
survivalist said:
I’m with you apart from

“ criminalising anyone who knowingly puts older / vulnerable people at risk”

It’s the same nonsense non-essential items, travel etc . Very hard to quantify and even harder to police.

We should give the old and vulnerable the support and information to make their own decisions.
Absolutely, I don’t disagree with that.

No older or vulnerable person should at any point be lawfully put under any extra restrictions than anyone else.

That said, I do think they should be afforded extra protection from potentially infected persons whilst there is a risk.

Someone waltzing into a care home after testing positive for example, would be a clear cut case for me.
I can’t see that happening though, assuming the employer/government provide sufficient financial cover following a positive test.

Either way, sadly the nature of the vulnerable elderly is that they need to have interactions with others to ensure their needs are met.

PRTVR

7,105 posts

221 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Someone I know had it in hospital at the beginning of the pandemic, he is back in hospital and has tested positive again.

irc

7,306 posts

136 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
Who would have thought last christmas that in a years time there the police would be threatening to enter homes and break up family christmas dinners?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/27/family...

markyb_lcy

9,904 posts

62 months

Wednesday 28th October 2020
quotequote all
irc said:
Who would have thought last christmas that in a years time there the police would be threatening to enter homes and break up family christmas dinners?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/27/family...
Call their bluff I say and give them a long day of work. They can’t / won’t reach everyone.

Hollow threats.