Coronavirus - the killer flu that will wipe us out? (Vol. 8)

[survivalist]

98elise said:

survivalist said:

For the most part people have kept in line with guidance. The reason for the increase in 'cases' is entirely driven by behaviour wholly endorsed by government policy and not 'rule breakers'.

Have they? Social distancing has completely gone out of the window.

It’s a good point and one I hadn’t really considered, possibly because I didn’t really consider it a rule.

I terms of social distancing from strangers it’s pretty much built in to most settings now, such as shops etc as it’s 1m plus (the plus being the mask you’re being made to wear)

I doubt anyone socially distances with friends and family in their own home or if going to the pub, which for most people, in most settings is impossible anyway. When I go to the pub with 5 friends I can’t get a table big enough to socially distance. But they’re covid safe, so apparently it’s ok.

Maybe I should have said that most people seem to be following the government’s guidance, which in itself is flawed and contradictory anyway.

I’d still suggest that biggest change since the beginning of September is the return of schools and universities. Apart from the masks, the rules for pubs, restaurants and shops have been the same for months.

[bodhi]

survivalist said:

It’s a good point and one I hadn’t really considered, possibly because I didn’t really consider it a rule.

I terms of social distancing from strangers it’s pretty much built in to most settings now, such as shops etc as it’s 1m plus (the plus being the mask you’re being made to wear)

I doubt anyone socially distances with friends and family in their own home or if going to the pub, which for most people, in most settings is impossible anyway. When I go to the pub with 5 friends I can’t get a table big enough to socially distance. But they’re covid safe, so apparently it’s ok.

Maybe I should have said that most people seem to be following the government’s guidance, which in itself is flawed and contradictory anyway.

I’d still suggest that biggest change since the beginning of September is the return of schools and universities. Apart from the masks, the rules for pubs, restaurants and shops have been the same for months.

Personally I don't think it's anything to do with human behavior or Government policy cases have risen again - it's because it's a coronavirus, and we're heading into winter. It's pretty much doing what every other respiratory illness ever does.

[isaldiri]

bodhi said:

Personally I don't think it's anything to do with human behavior or Government policy cases have risen again - it's because it's a coronavirus, and we're heading into winter. It's pretty much doing what every other respiratory illness ever does.

You can't disassociate human behaviour from the spread of the virus though. They are very interlinked. Atmospheric conditions might make it more transmissible but ultimately it depends on human contact to be transmitted and that's dependent on human behaviour.

[survivalist]

isaldiri said:

bodhi said:

Personally I don't think it's anything to do with human behavior or Government policy cases have risen again - it's because it's a coronavirus, and we're heading into winter. It's pretty much doing what every other respiratory illness ever does.

You can't disassociate human behaviour from the spread of the virus though. They are very interlinked. Atmospheric conditions might make it more transmissible but ultimately it depends on human contact to be transmitted and that's dependent on human behaviour.

I think it’s the case that while you can theoretically suppress it, the consequences of the actions required to do so means that you can’t practically suppress it once it is prevalent in the population.

What I find amazing is that so many people seem surprised that the virus is spreading again.

[BrundanBianchi]

poo at Paul's said:

Says the man who never goes anywhere and never does anything!!
How’s the furlough going? A few more days, then you will have to get back to actual work redundancy, Tax payer funded holiday is over.

IFTFY

[BrundanBianchi]

survivalist said:

I think it’s the case that while you can theoretically suppress it, the consequences of the actions required to do so means that you can’t practically suppress it once it is prevalent in the population.

What I find amazing is that so many people seem surprised that the virus is spreading again.

Without an effective, safe vaccine ( don’t hold your breath) this isn’t going anywhere. Re infections have happened, so ‘herd immunity’ can’t happen. We’ve got to learn to live with it, and all it’s consequences. It’ll be like the movie ‘Logan’s run’ but without a young Jenny Agutter, or laser gun exploder things.

[BrundanBianchi]

This situation feels like trying to play a game of cricket, but the spin bowler keeps bowling bouncers at random, and there are 13 slip fielders.

[grumbledoak]

isaldiri said:

You can't disassociate human behaviour from the spread of the virus though. They are very interlinked. Atmospheric conditions might make it more transmissible but ultimately it depends on human contact to be transmitted and that's dependent on human behaviour.

If the virus can be transmitted by aerosols, say because our masks nebulize the droplets, then people don't even need to be in the same room at the same time for it to spread. Then, the only intervention that could work would be to put all 67 million of us in solitary confinement for weeks.

No doubt that will be SPARE SAGE's next suggestion.

It's the only way to be sure!

[survivalist]

BrundanBianchi said:

survivalist said:

I think it’s the case that while you can theoretically suppress it, the consequences of the actions required to do so means that you can’t practically suppress it once it is prevalent in the population.

What I find amazing is that so many people seem surprised that the virus is spreading again.

Without an effective, safe vaccine ( don’t hold your breath) this isn’t going anywhere. Re infections have happened, so ‘herd immunity’ can’t happen. We’ve got to learn to live with it, and all it’s consequences. It’ll be like the movie ‘Logan’s run’ but without a young Jenny Agutter, or laser gun exploder things.

I agree with most that, although just because re-infections can happen doesn’t mean there’s no value in herd immunity. You can get chickenpox more than once but, as far as I’m aware, it’s not common.

I also think that it’s time to take a different approach, as repeated lockdowns aren’t practical and have a big negative impact. Even if the impact was smaller, compliance is unlikely to be as high as it was back in March/April.

[isaldiri]

survivalist said:

I think it’s the case that while you can theoretically suppress it, the consequences of the actions required to do so means that you can’t practically suppress it once it is prevalent in the population.

What I find amazing is that so many people seem surprised that the virus is spreading again.

Agreed, it was imo wishful thinking by some to think most people weren't susceptible as we had all got immunity earlier already.

I suppose the thing is though - given the constant govt messaging to live in fear of the deadly disease, as cases/deaths go up at some point the population will adjust their behaviour by itself irrespective of govt measures to avoid contact. At that point the economic hit happens whatever the government has done wrt to restrictions.... So we are in a nasty doom loop until the government messaging changes as in the past like in 2017/18 we basically ignored large numbers of people dying over that winter from flu so it's not that people aren't able to accept a relatively high level of excess deaths.

[survivalist]

isaldiri said:

survivalist said:

I think it’s the case that while you can theoretically suppress it, the consequences of the actions required to do so means that you can’t practically suppress it once it is prevalent in the population.

What I find amazing is that so many people seem surprised that the virus is spreading again.

Agreed, it was imo wishful thinking by some to think most people weren't susceptible as we had all got immunity earlier already.

I suppose the thing is though - given the constant govt messaging to live in fear of the deadly disease, as cases/deaths go up at some point the population will adjust their behaviour by itself irrespective of govt measures to avoid contact. At that point the economic hit happens whatever the government has done wrt to restrictions.... So we are in a nasty doom loop until the government messaging changes as in the past like in 2017/18 we basically ignored large numbers of people dying over that winter from flu so it's not that people aren't able to accept a relatively high level of excess deaths.

I’m not sure that many people had any idea how many people died of flu before the ‘daily death’ reports we started getting in March. I’m pretty sure that if you asked people about the most common cause of death for the demographic now most at risk of Covid 19 last year the most common response would be ‘old age’.

[shakindog]

Bit of an update chest drain still in and been told today I’m not actually on a ward I’ve been waiting since Monday for a place on respiratory ward. That’s 4 days so far.
Every morning around 2am the doors open to the room I’m in with 4 old blokes and they take some and fetch new ones bloody annoying as I’m still here but it wakes you up.
Some are lovely old boys been sat today listening to 2 old boys talking about growing up in the war absolutely fascinating and wouldn’t have happened if was for this awful thing going round.
Other 2 new ones are both sat in corner sulking and saying nothing even tho they got window.
Generally feeling 100 % better but have drained a litre of fluid out of my chest since Tuesday when drain went in.
The virus is real and absolutely no rhyme or reason to it. One of old boys been in 36 hours had oxygen and antibiotics daughter picking him up in half hour result I call that.
Guy from icu they fetched in lasted a day in here then carted off to ward was better than when they fetched him in but still in a bad way.
My own symptoms seem to be a bit of a temp but can’t really tell due to the other stuff the chest drain thing is not covid related.
I’m only one tats been in here for another reason except covid and in 4 days now that’s 9 different folk I believe that been in and out.

[Terminator X]

Coolbananas said:

Earthdweller said:

Terminator X said:

The difference this time though vs March is the mandatory wearing of face masks. In March / April we didn't do that so people just kept 2m apart at least (we often actually crossed the road just to avoid people!); now with masks people seem to feel invincible so just get as close as they ever did pre CV19. Masks protecting others

TX.

It was something that was really striking

When they introduced masks in shops ALL social distancing by 99% of the population went out the window

Pretty much instantly the provision of a tiny bit of cloth made the wearer immune from catching the virus

I think the mandating of masks will prove to have been a mistake

Interesting...so are you suggesting that the UK population in general is as thick as mince, relatively-speaking when compared to other Nations? Or is it just that you weren't informed correctly?

Here we were informed very clearly that masks do not work in isolation and are just a complimentary part of social distancing. Our Healthcare Professionals went to great lengths to explain that the primary social distancing rules always apply and that masks help to reduce risk - when everyone adopts their use - by helping to limit the spread of particles between people, especially where social distancing is, briefly, closer than we would like it to be.

They do not replace social distancing. They do not protect the wearer directly from non-wearers of masks who are close enough to allow their own particles to reach your mask. They do not guarantee significant protection at all times since some particles will get through them regardless, to varying degrees. They do need washing at least daily if you intend to use the same one and do not have a few about, otherwise a new disposable at least daily. They are only, when everyone wears one, a benefit towards particle reduction between people in tighter spacing situations - tighter spacing that must not be allowed for a long period because the goal is to maintain social distancing as much as possible.

Masks are there for those brief moments when that spacing is compromised but even then particles will get through because masks are not 100% protection, because they do not offer 'direct' protection and so they are not to be relied upon in close encounters for very long, you want that time to be short and masks will then - possibly - provide some measure of additional risk reduction to varying degrees depending upon each situation by shortening the reach particles would otherwise have when emitted by the wearer.

It isn't difficult to understand but judging by comments repeatedly made here and elsewhere, it really is hard for some to grasp.

Unless you never leave your house / the home surely you have noticed it yourself? See much social distancing in the town center etc?

TX.

[hidetheelephants]

Being the diminutive half of 1970s comedy double acts is now a co-morbidity for CV19; it's presumably only a matter of time before the slaughter starts of alternative comedy stalwarts from the 1980s?

[DoctorX]

hidetheelephants said:

Being the diminutive half of 1970s comedy double acts is now a co-morbidity for CV19; it's presumably only a matter of time before the slaughter starts of alternative comedy stalwarts from the 1980s?

Jimmy Krankee!

[shakindog]

Eta

[BrundanBianchi]

Apologies for the Wail link, but.......

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8896423/D...

Oh dear, all people had to do is behave, but no, that’s too much like hard work

[ABZ RS6]

DoctorX said:

Jimmy Krankee!

If it also applies to the tribute act in the Shortbread Senate then bring it on I say!

[lost in espace]

In 10 days time it will be necessary to have a negative CV19 test, at your expense, if you travel to the Canary Islands. Lucky I am going before then!

[BrundanBianchi]

lost in espace said:

In 10 days time it will be necessary to have a negative CV19 test, at your expense, if you travel to the Canary Islands. Lucky I am going before then!

Good effort. It’s clearly a risky area, but you just go for it, enjoy yourself, what’s the worst that can happen?