Coronavirus - the killer flu that will wipe us out? (Vol. 8)
Discussion
Joey Deacon said:
Every time I hear some politician talk about a new bogeyman variant, or someone who works at a supermarket telling me wear a mask I immediately think of this.
Yep.Mask wearing in Tescos one day, next day goosestepping & executing ethnic minorities in the streets the next.
It's a slippery slope for sure.
zygalski said:
Yep.
Mask wearing in Tescos one day, next day goosestepping & executing ethnic minorities in the streets the next.
It's a slippery slope for sure.
Mask wearing in Tescos one day, next day goosestepping & executing ethnic minorities in the streets the next.
It's a slippery slope for sure.
MOTORVATOR said:
Agreed aside for the further complication of what buffer is available and maybe not suited to the intended recipient now.
Andy Burnham has requested similar however just rolling out to rest of society isn't going to solve the continual hotspots created in large swathes of vaccine reticent communities.
It may not be a very PC thing to say but if we have a problem arising within Asian communities we need to be open and honest about it and lean hard on that Asian community to solve it themselves. 100% over 50's vaccine which has already been offered to them would be a damn good start.
Slippery slope ehAndy Burnham has requested similar however just rolling out to rest of society isn't going to solve the continual hotspots created in large swathes of vaccine reticent communities.
It may not be a very PC thing to say but if we have a problem arising within Asian communities we need to be open and honest about it and lean hard on that Asian community to solve it themselves. 100% over 50's vaccine which has already been offered to them would be a damn good start.
Maximus_Meridius101 said:
Smollet said:
They were concerned about all the variants so far so why break the habit of a lifetime. This variant will be no different
This variant has ( at least ) 3 escape mutations. The biggest worry amongst the experts, is that it can evade antibodies and corpuscles. If it does ( and it is still very much if ) it’s a game changer. The scientists are very concerned, so now the government is very concerned, and to quote BoJo a few minutes ago, “all options are very much on the table”.Here’s a nice little piece about the B and T cells, and how they work . If this new variant evades them, and also any antibodies they produce, we are in trouble, hence the alarm levels from government.
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-b-cells-an...
Edited by Maximus_Meridius101 on Thursday 13th May 15:34
Ashfordian said:
Maximus_Meridius101 said:
Smollet said:
They were concerned about all the variants so far so why break the habit of a lifetime. This variant will be no different
This variant has ( at least ) 3 escape mutations. The biggest worry amongst the experts, is that it can evade antibodies and corpuscles. If it does ( and it is still very much if ) it’s a game changer. The scientists are very concerned, so now the government is very concerned, and to quote BoJo a few minutes ago, “all options are very much on the table”.Here’s a nice little piece about the B and T cells, and how they work . If this new variant evades them, and also any antibodies they produce, we are in trouble, hence the alarm levels from government.
https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-b-cells-an...
Edited by Maximus_Meridius101 on Thursday 13th May 15:34
Good person to follow on Twitter below when considering how effective the vaccines are against variants:
https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/13917179...
Might be an anonymous account, just an anonymous account who works for Moderna
tl:dr - no vaccine escape variant exists at this point - not even close.
EddieSteadyGo said:
Based on this tweet from Hugo Gye, which shows the take up rate for the over 50's, there does look to be an issue with the take-up with some groups in society.
https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/139284659977729...
Well for all that the bad people of subcontinent origin are being blamed for the increase in cases that uptake is rather high.....https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/139284659977729...
ukbabz said:
zygalski said:
Yep.
Mask wearing in Tescos one day, next day goosestepping & executing ethnic minorities in the streets the next.
It's a slippery slope for sure.
Mask wearing in Tescos one day, next day goosestepping & executing ethnic minorities in the streets the next.
It's a slippery slope for sure.
MOTORVATOR said:
Agreed aside for the further complication of what buffer is available and maybe not suited to the intended recipient now.
Andy Burnham has requested similar however just rolling out to rest of society isn't going to solve the continual hotspots created in large swathes of vaccine reticent communities.
It may not be a very PC thing to say but if we have a problem arising within Asian communities we need to be open and honest about it and lean hard on that Asian community to solve it themselves. 100% over 50's vaccine which has already been offered to them would be a damn good start.
Slippery slope ehAndy Burnham has requested similar however just rolling out to rest of society isn't going to solve the continual hotspots created in large swathes of vaccine reticent communities.
It may not be a very PC thing to say but if we have a problem arising within Asian communities we need to be open and honest about it and lean hard on that Asian community to solve it themselves. 100% over 50's vaccine which has already been offered to them would be a damn good start.
MOTORVATOR said:
Do you find it offensive that recognition of an ethnic group could actually be utilised for common benefit?
Not offended in the slightest.I'm just pointing out that segregating one section of society and slowly eroding commonality to make them difference is literally what the nazi's did. Something you've advocated two post before someone saying it didn't happen.
bodhi said:
Going by his mangling of immunology in the rest of his post I don't think he does somehow. Viruses evading T-cells indeed - what a load of guff.
Good person to follow on Twitter below when considering how effective the vaccines are against variants:
https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/13917179...
Might be an anonymous account, just an anonymous account who works for Moderna
tl:dr - no vaccine escape variant exists at this point - not even close.
Oh good god, I firmly believe you are about to have your pants pulled down right royally. I’ll just sit here for a bit and watch.Good person to follow on Twitter below when considering how effective the vaccines are against variants:
https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout/status/13917179...
Might be an anonymous account, just an anonymous account who works for Moderna
tl:dr - no vaccine escape variant exists at this point - not even close.
Maximus_Meridius101 said:
Ashfordian said:
How do you (we) know these "escape mutations" make this mutation more virulent?
We don’t, that’s the issue. The government are unlikely ( on past experience) to take a chance, so very probably will go proactive.purplepenguin said:
Maximus_Meridius101 said:
Ashfordian said:
How do you (we) know these "escape mutations" make this mutation more virulent?
We don’t, that’s the issue. The government are unlikely ( on past experience) to take a chance, so very probably will go proactive.bodhi said:
purplepenguin said:
Maximus_Meridius101 said:
Ashfordian said:
How do you (we) know these "escape mutations" make this mutation more virulent?
We don’t, that’s the issue. The government are unlikely ( on past experience) to take a chance, so very probably will go proactive.ukbabz said:
MOTORVATOR said:
Do you find it offensive that recognition of an ethnic group could actually be utilised for common benefit?
Not offended in the slightest.I'm just pointing out that segregating one section of society and slowly eroding commonality to make them difference is literally what the nazi's did. Something you've advocated two post before someone saying it didn't happen.
There should be no difference between vaccine take up levels regardless of ethnic background and in this case it would be the ethnic communities themselves that need to achieve the level up.
Not sure where Nazis fit in with any of that?
Uggers said:
Can you define what you mean by 'leaned on'?
Leaned on means "put pressure on someone to act in a certain way." what do you think he means?They need to be told, you are the ones who are most at risk, and also the ones who are less likely to have the vaccine.
What they could do, is try some of the other medicines that countries have been using with huge success and let the virus rip through. More chance of it burning itself out then.
Or just say to people, this virus can be proper nasty, we are going to open up, you will have to take your chances. I bet those that were vulnerable would self isolate anyway.
Maximus_Meridius101 said:
That was the original plan. It didn’t work.
We had absolutely no idea how to treat people, we had no idea what ages would be hit hard, we never used Ivermectin and other available, cheap drugs, in Europe, it was also the first wave, which will always take out the most, especially as much of Europe had had incredibly low death rates for the last few years. We also keep banging on about 80k excess deaths compared with the last 5 years average, but that is for 2019/20 and 2020/21 'winter periods', why are we adding two years of figures together?
Plus the death figures for Covid are b
ks anyway, my father in law and my son in law's uncle both died in the last 6 months, and both those were put as covid, neither were. One needed his lungs draining and couldn't get into the hospital as appointments cancelled, the other had terminal pancreatic cancer. They should have spent some of the billions on more beds and getting the NHS ready.
We are in a very different position now.
Basically anyone under retirement age is not in any more danger than any other year, those above it can stay in and isolate.
We can not keep locking down, we will do more damage long term if we do.
Uggers said:
Can you define what you mean by 'leaned on'?
If you look at the chart Eddie posted it is clear that the message hasn't got through to some communities that there is a mutual and national responsibility to get vaccinated in order to achieve herd immunity which is what will keep prevalence in check.It's the prevalence in check that provides the protection for the vulnerable that either cannot take the vaccine or is ineffective for. It is also what will make our population welcome as visitors to other countries and remove the need for any interventions.
As it is because we are sometimes afraid of spelling things out we have today, in a few areas, opened up vaccination to anyone over 18 to pick up the shortfall in protection which many would argue here is ridiculous as the young are never going to be badly impacted by it.
Leaning on or applying pressure to do the right thing is not a case of hitting of someone with a stick, a simple rational explanation of the need to increase take up as not doing so is detrimental to the well being of the country as a whole isn't too much to ask is it?
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